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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Or are no longer active. This is an irreplaceable loss of information.

This has happened now with several sites and may have been this way some time before I noticed.

The first I noticed was a site run by an individual, Poodles de Grenier. I noticed that it had gone 404 last June. This is very sad as there was genetic information and history on that site.
There is a legacy site of sorts but it's not the site with the genetic info.

The next are sites run by volunteers, I believe.

Noticed some months ago that no one seemed to be home. Finally the website of Poodle Health Registry updated status to a "legacy" database. Some info is accessible but not a lot.
aka

Yesterday, I found that Poodle History Project is gone. Another amazing collection of information gone into the ether. The domain is "up for renewal or..."


I don't know how many of these may be related, if at all.

The Poodle Pedigree database just links to a page to log in if you have a log in, or to join a rather inactive FB group, or just goes around in circles. The Original Poodle Pedigree Database

The Standard Poodle Database still seems active

A different Pedigree Database Online is still online

As is Pedigree Online

And Poodle Health Registry Pedigree Database which might work if you have a log in, or the right browser (fyi, don't try using the AOL browser lol) (the same as phrdatabase.org above but older?)

Poodle Pedigree Database What appear to be non-US origin poodle entries being added but not much else going on

The Standard Poodle Project is still online but apparently not touched for years

Still online as of the day I started collecting these

The Poodle Diversity Project

The Canine Diversity Project

Diversity in Poodles

The Institute of Canine Biology


If you know anything about these or have resource links to add, please add your info here, just to have a collection in one place.

I've started copying pages of info I want to be certain to keep for reference.
 

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Mia, Christmas in June 2010
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You're right, Rose, this is a real loss.

Not a perfect solution, but have you ever used the Wayback Machine? It archives websites at various times, so you can view a website as it appeared on a certain date. It first asks for the url, then tells you precisely when the site was archived and how many times in total the site was archived. You can choose any of the archived dates. For example, PoodleHistory.org was saved 391 times between June 17, 2000 and January 21, 2021, and you can see what the website looked like on two random dates I selected: 24 Aug 2018 or 2 Feb 2005.

Like I said, not a perfect solution. I haven't tried it on PHR with my old password.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Excellent reminder, thanks! I'd actually remembered to check there the day I noticed poodlehistory.org missing and have been copying the pages I wanted to save from there. I expect I'll go for the full site :).

What I don't know is if searchable databases will work, so I'll be interested in your experiment, when you get to try it.
 
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Tessa and Molly
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Or are no longer active. This is an irreplaceable loss of information.

The Poodle Pedigree database
just links to a page to log in if you have a log in, or to join a rather inactive FB group, or just goes around in circles. The Original Poodle Pedigree Database
It's not that great a loss for some of them. This one in particular.
I'm seething right now because of this database.
I have had an account at this one so I was able to sign in. I did this because I was looking for the pedigree information on one of my own dogs, due to a potential health issue.

When I entered my dog's registered name, I discovered that apparently I'm no longer the owner! (The dog is my disabled son's "personal" dog and is in his bedroom right now.)
Someone has gone into the database and changed MY dog's call name, breeder, owner, country of birth, DATE OF BIRTH, etc. etc. etc.

I just sent a detailed email to "[email protected]" indicated on the home page, as the administrator, demanding she fix it.
The email bounced immediately. NOTE: getoverit.com is a domain also supposedly owned by Karen Mills. (Along with several others listed on the home page in the fine print at the bottom.)
This suggests that Karen may have passed away or sold the site to someone else.

Joellen Curtis was/is heavily involved in "editing" that site.
I discovered this when I asked Karen - years ago - for access to be able to edit/correct errors in several of my own dog registrations.
Karen told me she only allows one other person "she trusts" to edit the database. Specifically, Joellen Curtis.
I sent Karen corrections that were needed for several of my registrations. NONE of them were ever corrected.
And since the page for MY dog is now showing Isle of Standard Poodles – Striving to produce the best quality Standard Poodles for you as his website...... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who's running the site.

The changes made to my dog's registration totally screw up everything related to him when you look at pedigrees there for siblings, litters sired, etc. etc.
My dog was born in 2010. It's been changed to April 2017. So apparently my dog sired a number of litters BEFORE HE WAS BORN!

And, he's even magically sired litters without any contact whatsoever with the (alleged) dam!
Pedigree: IsleOf Dancing In Phantom (Links to pages on the site still seem to work if you have the address. Login may not be necessary.)
In this case, if the link comes up, it shows my son's dog as the sire of IsleOf Dancing In Phantom, born 3/9/2020. (The registered name tells you who's involved.)
The problem is, we haven't bred Knight for over two years due to health issues we're concerned about. I don't think they are genetic but I'm not taking any chances.
So I can 100% Guarantee that Leatherstocking Knight Black Vortex, did NOT sire IsleOf Dancing in Phantom.

This strongly suggests that this sites data is totally useless now and should not be trusted under any circumstances.
It appears it's being used mostly to serve one particular breeders personal needs and the fact that the data on my dog was changed, suggests the motives "are not pure".

I've checked all the registration data for the domain and it's hiding behind "domain privacy".
Meaning it's virtually impossible to contact the alleged owner, Karen Mills.
The domain info was last updated on August 5th, 2020.
The domain doesn't expire until August 7th, 2021. (It will likely get renewed before then.)
Other domains listed as owned by Karen have also been updated within the past year. Some only a few weeks ago. (getoverit.com)

I'm trying to figure out who the host for poodledata.org is, to see if I can have it taken down.
There are legal implications that could reflect badly on ME with intentionally altered data on my past dogs, and I'm not happy about that.
 

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Tessa and Molly
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Well, a bit of investigative digging on the net has turned up some interesting information regarding the Poodle Pedigree Database and Karen Mills.
To start with, Karen Mills has indeed passed away. Karen Mills - Columbus, Ohio , Leaf Cremation of Ohio - Memories wall
She passed on January 10th, 2020.

Based on WHOIS data for poodledata.org, someone updated the domain registration on August 8, 2020.
So there definitely IS someone that has control of the site. And it's clearly not Karen.

Also, considering the issue I have right now with altered data on my own dog(s) this was also.... "informational".
https://www.muddlawoffices.com/cases/tamburo/174 Tamburo 6Am Compl.pdf

It seems Karen and several others were sued in 2006 over "tortious acts against the plaintiffs".
It would appear her activities helped intentionally drive the plaintiffs out of business.
Seems Karen and Joellen are two peas in a pod.
https://www.muddlawoffices.com/cases/tamburo/174 Tamburo 6Am Compl.pdf
Starts at line 34. "Mills conspired with other defendants to commit tortious and unlawful acts to damage the plaintiffs, enabling this court to exercise conspiracy jurisdiction against her".
The plaintiffs were breeders and went insolvent in 2004. It appears they were awarded $100,000.00 in this lawsuit.

NOTE: Joellen Curtis was NOT involved in this issue. But it speaks to the character of Karen Mills.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
This will not help the issue with the PPD and may not help with the info you went searching for, or you may already have this link, but I found this at the Standard Poodle Database, fwiw.
 

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Tessa and Molly
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This will not help the issue with the PPD and may not help with the info you went searching for, or you may already have this link, but I found this at the Standard Poodle Database, fwiw.
Thanks, Rose.

Knight comes up correctly on the poodle health resource database as well. http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_pedigree.pl?id=150751
He USED to come up correctly on poodledata.org as well. (PPD)
The changes that have been made (by Joellen I suspect) are much more recent.

I just wish she'd leave the database alone as this sort of "fiddling" ruins the resource for everyone else.
I'll "suggest" she's doing this out of 'self-important' issues. She has a habit of "inserting herself" into other peoples business.
It appears she's inserted herself into Penny's business now.
Even with the changes, her name shouldn't be on that page in any way, shape or form. (her website address.) Penny owns the dog. Not Joellen.

We sold Roman to Penny McClean. Directly. Joellen wasn't involved in the process.
He's registered as Palbago's When in Rome.
Instead of adding a new page to the database, Joellen seems to have just gone in and edited the details for Knight, so it no longer references either registered dog.
I just noticed she even changed Knight's CKC registration number.
And now when I check for knight's littermates (siblings) the rest were all born in 2010 but somehow Knight waited until 2017 before he popped out.


I also discovered that my email sent to [email protected] bounced because getoverit.com has expired. A GoDaddy parking page comes up and I think it's for sale.
So at the moment there is no valid email contact for PPD.
 

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Tessa and Molly
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Hmmmm.....
This ends any "speculation" on my part.

Change history for Leatherstocking's knight Blackvortex

3/25/2020 2:52:20 PM:

Added by Joel Curtis

3/25/2020 2:54:20 PM:
Modified by Joel Curtis
Registry="CKC", RegistrationNumber="PR147665", Owner="Colleen Armstrong"

3/25/2020 2:56:45 PM:
Modified by Joel Curtis
CallName="Roman", Country="CA", BirthDay=17, BirthMonth=10, BirthYear=2017, RegistrationNumber="EU747239", Breeder="Colleen Armstrong", Owner="Penny McLean", Website="www.joellenstandardpoodles.com", Variety="S", Color="Blk"

3/25/2020 3:15:22 PM:
Modified by Joel Curtis
sireID=372181, damID=370117


These dates are after Karen Mills passed away. So at least I know who is actively editing the database.
Oddly enough she left the colour alone. Knight is black. Roman is parti.
 

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Tessa and Molly
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Some Good News!

The rights to the poodledata.org database has been acquired by the Poodle Club of America!!

I don't know who has editing abilities but I'll find out.

I've removed the email for cathy. Please do not contact her at that email address.
It's public on the PCA main web site but I should not have given it out.

CATHY CANNOT EDIT ANY OF THE REGISTRATIONS AND/OR PEDIGREES ON THE SITE.
PLEASE DO NOT CONTACT HER. SHE'S UPSET WITH ME OVER THIS.
IT WAS AN ASSUMPTION ON MY PART THAT SHE COULD FIX REGISTRATION ERRORS.


PLEASE SIT BACK AND GIVE THE PCA TIME TO WORK OUT THE PROBLEMS WITH THE DATABASE.
iT WILL NOT BE QUICK AND IT WILL TAKE A LOT OF WORK FOR THEM TO FIX IT.
 

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Too bad about Karen. She was a dedicated volunteer who wound up taking flack from everywhere!
Always pleasant and kind to me.
But yes... someone had gone in and added Addisonian to Tonka's profile.
She removed it quickly.
 

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When you say you can’t edit do you mean you can’t change or add anything ? Karen added me awhile ago and I can change my dogs info .

I had bought Nova’s grandparent info from akc so I added some missing dogs and reg. Info. Very time consuming.
 

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Tessa and Molly
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When you say you can’t edit do you mean you can’t change or add anything ? Karen added me awhile ago and I can change my dogs info .

I had bought Nova’s grandparent info from akc so I added some missing dogs and reg. Info. Very time consuming.
Hi Mel:

Karen apparently gave selective access to edit entries. You must be one of them. Which is a good thing.
I was not one of them in spite of asking several times and being registered on the site for over 15 years.
And there are many of my dogs on the list. And many of my dogs are NOT on the list because I couldn't enter them.

I'm not sure if the ability to edit was only applicable to your one's own dogs, or the registrations you entered.
IE: I don't know if you can go in and change/correct entries of other people's registrations.

The PCA is looking to completely revamp the site. However, in technical terms, it's running on asp.net which is an older Microsoft product and not many people are using it or experts on it.
They may try to migrate it to a more powerful and flexible product like core.net or something non-Microsoft. But it's going to take a lot of time. It's all volunteer workers.

One thing I can confirm is that I've been told Joellen Curtis does not have the ability to edit/change anything any more.
The data on one of my dogs was altered so badly it had widespread effects on offspring, siblings, and even parents.(I'm going to try and make this the last thing I'll say on the matter.)

Working with Cathy at the PCA we've straightened that one out. It was important to me as it was a Leatherstocking dog which widely affected the pedigrees of his litters, and his parents (sire and dam) data. So I pushed to get that fixed. He has a very low COI and Wycliffe COI for standard poodles and that's why I want the data accurate.


I realize that a couple of good breeders here don't like Leatherstocking. That's their problem.
There MAY have been an issue with one or two dogs but that has happened with every breeder that has bred a lot of dogs.
FWIW, I just became aware of one breeder that has produced over 35,000 AKC registered dogs.
So, it happens. And it's will be unavoidable.

To the best of my knowledge the PCA will still be allowing people to enter/fix registrations when it's all finished.

Sadly, the more registrations I look at (just with dogs related to mine), the more errors I find.
Same dog entered more than once. (one misspelled.) Wrong owners. No owners. Wrong/No breeders.
No AKC/CKC registration numbers. Etc. etc. (NOTE: It wasn't Joellen that did any of those.)
 

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Hi Mel:

Karen apparently gave selective access to edit entries. You must be one of them. Which is a good thing.
I was not one of them in spite of asking several times and being registered on the site for over 15 years.
And there are many of my dogs on the list. And many of my dogs are NOT on the list because I couldn't enter them.

I'm not sure if the ability to edit was only applicable to your one's own dogs, or the registrations you entered.
IE: I don't know if you can go in and change/correct entries of other people's registrations.

The PCA is looking to completely revamp the site. However, in technical terms, it's running on asp.net which is an older Microsoft product and not many people are using it or experts on it.
They may try to migrate it to a more powerful and flexible product like core.net or something non-Microsoft. But it's going to take a lot of time. It's all volunteer workers.

One thing I can confirm is that I've been told Joellen Curtis does not have the ability to edit/change anything any more.
The data on one of my dogs was altered so badly it had widespread effects on offspring, siblings, and even parents.(I'm going to try and make this the last thing I'll say on the matter.)

Working with Cathy at the PCA we've straightened that one out. It was important to me as it was a Leatherstocking dog which widely affected the pedigrees of his litters, and his parents (sire and dam) data. So I pushed to get that fixed. He has a very low COI and Wycliffe COI for standard poodles and that's why I want the data accurate.


I realize that a couple of good breeders here don't like Leatherstocking. That's their problem.
There MAY have been an issue with one or two dogs but that has happened with every breeder that has bred a lot of dogs.
FWIW, I just became aware of one breeder that has produced over 35,000 AKC registered dogs.
So, it happens. And it's will be unavoidable.

To the best of my knowledge the PCA will still be allowing people to enter/fix registrations when it's all finished.

Sadly, the more registrations I look at (just with dogs related to mine), the more errors I find.
Same dog entered more than once. (one misspelled.) Wrong owners. No owners. Wrong/No breeders.
No AKC/CKC registration numbers. Etc. etc. (NOTE: It wasn't Joellen that did any of those.)
I can explain a lot about how and why those edits happened on your dog. I found myself here by specifically looking for Knight’s name to try and find his owner. Can you contact me privately? New registration so can’t send messages (?).
 
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