[carmar92]

Hello everyone,

after years and years of pining after a toy poodle we have found that we are in the perfect position to finally add a little one to our lives. I have researched non stop into the breed and contacted our local toy poodle club as well as friends and family members who show dogs, to learn about the breed as much as I can. I think it’s safe to safe I am slowly becoming obsessed.

It is worth nothing we want a pet and not a dog to breed or show, we just want a little one to join us and be loved and spoiled. After doing all our research on the breed and breeders and establishing relationships in the poodle community, are now at the point where we have made 2 very good connections with 2 top UK breeders- both of whom have champion dogs and breed beautiful toy poodles- but both offer us something different so we have ended up confused.
I first became enamoured with poodles when seeing the whites creams apricots and reds. The reds really stole my heart and that was always what we were going to go for. We then luckily got connected to Afterglow but they specialise mainly in black but also get the odd brown pups also. These guys are world renowned and just amazing and breed the most gorgeous dogs- just not in the colour we had set our heart to. People who we have spoken to have said this is a great connection and opportunity to have.
Our other potential breeder is Mrs Riddett of Wightwonder who specialises in apricots and reds. she has earned her CCs and cruft scofflaws with her dogs also and loves them very much.
we also know how important it is to visit mum and pups as we would love to see their temperaments and if there’s a little one we bind with, but the current climate makes it that bit harder, and also dependent on what we could get based on which pups will be for show and which will be pets.
We are now at a case of head vs heart. Do we go with a gorgeous Brown tiny toy from a champion kennel with great health history and breeding or do we go with a gorgeous red toy who are champions in their own right and what stole our heart? I don’t want us to feel we have lost an opportunity but we Are feeling so confused.

With that has anyone one here had any experience with these breeders at all? Has anyone got a brown afterglow poodle or a red Wightwonder poodle?
We are still willing and wanting to learn more and are always keen for any info you can give us.

we are likely also torn between a brown or a red. What more can you tell me about these colours? I have looked up on fading and coat quality but that seems to be down to the breeding lines and can depend on what you get. We will love our dog regardless but it isinteresting to understand what we could get in the end.
Also how tall are some of your apricots or reds? I was told that these end up slightly taller than other toy colours but I’m not sure if this is always true so again all and any advice and wisdom please.
Anything else you can share please feel free. This will be the first toy poodle (poodle) we have had and want to make sure we are making the right decisions to have our happy healthy and loving pup.

Sorry for the very long post, we are just so excited!
Thanks!! Xx

 

[Raindrops]

Lucky you to be able to choose from two great breeders! It sounds like both of these breeders are well respected and breed dogs with good health and conformation. As far as traits like height and fading, both reds and browns will fade, but the degree of fading can be genetic. I would look at the parent and grandparent dogs to get a good idea of what to expect years down the line in regard to both color and height. I doubt that red toys as a group are taller, but these particular dogs might tend to be on the larger side. The only thing I can say about reds is that it's seen as harder to produce good reds because the color is relatively new to the poodle breed and hasn't been perfected in conformation. So there's a viewpoint that the more classic colors have the best conformation. Of course when a breeder has reds that win against the blacks, then cheers to them for producing such nice quality red dogs. It sounds like both of your breeders have done very well competing in conformation.

I think you probably can't go wrong with either choice. I would say go with your heart. Whatever your decision is, don't look back after you commit to a pup. He/she will be perfect, no matter the color or size.

 

[cowpony]

Both sound great. If it makes any difference to you, a brown poodle will have a brown (not black) nose and hazel/amber eyes. A well bred red or apricot should have a black nose and dark brown eyes. I love the expressiveness of the lighter eyes on brown dogs, but some people think they look weird.

My brown standard Snarky faded a bit without losing any of his handsomeness. He started out almost black, like the color of 60% cacao chocolate. By the time he died at age 9 he had lightened to the color of milk cchocolate. Still a gorgeous color.

 

[that_poodle_noodle]

I think both sound amazing and you will love whichever puppy you get regardless of colour I would lean towards the reds because these are what stole your heart in the first place (and I think if you're just looking for a puppy to love rather than to show, then you should definitely go with your heart). Having said that, it really is all about temperament - we set out looking for a dark red puppy and ended up falling in love with the only apricot in the litter, and we've never looked back! Would the breeders be willing to send you videos of mum and the pups if you're not able to go see them?

Also I had no idea apricots / reds were taller, that's really interesting. Noodle is 5 months old and probably about 25cm at the withers (although she won't stand still for long enough for me to be sure!)

 

[Mfmst]

I’m obsessed with Afterglow, and would gladly take any color they have if it had the right temperament. (I had a serious crush on their black standard, Ricky.) Of course, I wanted a black poodle when I was looking for a puppy. If you’ve found a similarly elite breeder of you preferred color, follow your heart. Best wishes on a darling puppy soon! Keep us updated.

 

[carmar92]

I’m obsessed with Afterglow, and would gladly take any color they have if it had the right temperament. (I had a serious crush on their black standard, Ricky.) Of course, I wanted a black poodle when I was looking for a puppy. If you’ve found a similarly elite breeder of you preferred color, follow your heart. Best wishes on a darling puppy soon! Keep us updated.

once I really started looking into poodles
(and honestly I think I am obsessed) I really appreciated how beautiful the afterglow poodles are, such stunning dogs but I wish I could see more of their toys. Ricky when he was showing was so stunning! The guys we have spoken to have been really great and friendly and I feel quite lucky they’ve got us down for a poodle considering they’re this amazing kennel. The plus side is if all went well we could have a poodle sooner from them as two of their bitches are due To whelp soon so we are waiting on tender hooks to see. It’s so hard, if they had red ones ready , which I know theyre working on now, it would be a no brainer🙈 though I’ve really come to love the browns too now so we are going to see what the universe has planned for us. Will update as soon as we know!! Xx

 

[carmar92]

I think both sound amazing and you will love whichever puppy you get regardless of colour I would lean towards the reds because these are what stole your heart in the first place (and I think if you're just looking for a puppy to love rather than to show, then you should definitely go with your heart). Having said that, it really is all about temperament - we set out looking for a dark red puppy and ended up falling in love with the only apricot in the litter, and we've never looked back! Would the breeders be willing to send you videos of mum and the pups if you're not able to go see them?

Also I had no idea apricots / reds were taller, that's really interesting. Noodle is 5 months old and probably about 25cm at the withers (although she won't stand still for long enough for me to be sure!)

You are completely right, it really is about temperament. I wish we could see the pups and get that bond. Apparently both breeders pick the right dog for you based on what you want, so choice seems limited with both which is gutting. Every time we have had a dog we have gone to see the litter and picked the little love who we bonded with there and then. Apricots are so beautiful bet yours is gorgeous and sounds the perfect size!
yeah I had no clue either until a poodle page I came across mentioned this as they are still quite a newish colour and breed from minis more often- I asked a breeder who we chose not to go with and they said a similar thing too- but again I have no idea if this is true but it stuck with me. I havent been able to meet any reds or apricots in real life to see as I find them a bit more hard to come by in the UK, I was planning on going to a few dog shows and discover dogs but they’ve all been postponed to next year so it really hinders us🙈

 

[carmar92]

Both sound great. If it makes any difference to you, a brown poodle will have a brown (not black) nose and hazel/amber eyes. A well bred red or apricot should have a black nose and dark brown eyes. I love the expressiveness of the lighter eyes on brown dogs, but some people think they look weird.

My brown standard Snarky faded a bit without losing any of his handsomeness. He started out almost black, like the color of 60% cacao chocolate. By the time he died at age 9 he had lightened to the color of milk cchocolate. Still a gorgeous color.

see I love the lighter eyes on the brown too, I feel you see their character more than if they had dark eyes. I think that’s why I lean more away from the blacks are it’s all quite dark and I love seeing their little expressions and faces.
ooh he sounds gorgeous, would you have any photos of him before and after that I could see his colour change? I think it’s so interesting how the brown shades change!

 

[carmar92]

Lucky you to be able to choose from two great breeders! It sounds like both of these breeders are well respected and breed dogs with good health and conformation. As far as traits like height and fading, both reds and browns will fade, but the degree of fading can be genetic. I would look at the parent and grandparent dogs to get a good idea of what to expect years down the line in regard to both color and height. I doubt that red toys as a group are taller, but these particular dogs might tend to be on the larger side. The only thing I can say about reds is that it's seen as harder to produce good reds because the color is relatively new to the poodle breed and hasn't been perfected in conformation. So there's a viewpoint that the more classic colors have the best conformation. Of course when a breeder has reds that win against the blacks, then cheers to them for producing such nice quality red dogs. It sounds like both of your breeders have done very well competing in conformation.

I think you probably can't go wrong with either choice. I would say go with your heart. Whatever your decision is, don't look back after you commit to a pup. He/she will be perfect, no matter the color or size.

I will definitely be doing my research to see the lineage and colours from past generations- thanks for the tip! Is this also down to whether they have Any silver in their lineage as I know this can affect the blacks, would it also be the same for the browns also? Yes that’s exactly what I was told, as it’s a newer colour it’s not as well developed and it’s a colour breeders are still trying to get right. The world of poodle genetics and colouring is so interesting!
Thank you for your advice, I hope we get some good news soon and I know whichever we go for, it’ll be so very loved and adored

 

[Raindrops]

You are completely right, it really is about temperament. I wish we could see the pups and get that bond. Apparently both breeders pick the right dog for you based on what you want, so choice seems limited with both which is gutting. Every time we have had a dog we have gone to see the litter and picked the little love who we bonded with there and then. Apricots are so beautiful bet yours is gorgeous and sounds the perfect size!
yeah I had no clue either until a poodle page I came across mentioned this as they are still quite a newish colour and breed from minis more often- I asked a breeder who we chose not to go with and they said a similar thing too- but again I have no idea if this is true but it stuck with me. I havent been able to meet any reds or apricots in real life to see as I find them a bit more hard to come by in the UK, I was planning on going to a few dog shows and discover dogs but they’ve all been postponed to next year so it really hinders us🙈

Personally I really like the breeder choice method. They know the pups much better and are so much more likely to pair correct temperaments.

 

[cowpony]

see I love the lighter eyes on the brown too, I feel you see their character more than if they had dark eyes. I think that’s why I lean more away from the blacks are it’s all quite dark and I love seeing their little expressions and faces.
ooh he sounds gorgeous, would you have any photos of him before and after that I could see his colour change? I think it’s so interesting how the brown shades change!

Alas, his puppy pictures are on a hard drive I have in storage. He was a brown phantom with cream points, plus he got a whopping splash of parti factor. A sixty pound dog marked like a Doberman with random white patches isn't what people expected to see when I said I had a poodle, lol.

 

[that_poodle_noodle]

You are completely right, it really is about temperament. I wish we could see the pups and get that bond. Apparently both breeders pick the right dog for you based on what you want, so choice seems limited with both which is gutting. Every time we have had a dog we have gone to see the litter and picked the little love who we bonded with there and then. Apricots are so beautiful bet yours is gorgeous and sounds the perfect size!
yeah I had no clue either until a poodle page I came across mentioned this as they are still quite a newish colour and breed from minis more often- I asked a breeder who we chose not to go with and they said a similar thing too- but again I have no idea if this is true but it stuck with me. I havent been able to meet any reds or apricots in real life to see as I find them a bit more hard to come by in the UK, I was planning on going to a few dog shows and discover dogs but they’ve all been postponed to next year so it really hinders us🙈

Oh wow, I hadn't heard of the breeder choice method, but it actually seems like quite a good idea - especially as both the breeders you've found sound like they really know their stuff! This is such a tough decision for you, but I'm sure whichever puppy you bring home will be wonderful Please keep us posted and send through lots of pictures of your new pup when s/he arrives!

 

[fjm]

Both sound brilliant - Afterglow are quite near me, and I'm delighted to know they are still breeding toys. I think when it is a choice between two such excellent breeders it comes down to what your heart choice tells you about colour, timing, etc.

 

[Mufar42]

Hello everyone,

after years and years of pining after a toy poodle we have found that we are in the perfect position to finally add a little one to our lives. I have researched non stop into the breed and contacted our local toy poodle club as well as friends and family members who show dogs, to learn about the breed as much as I can. I think it’s safe to safe I am slowly becoming obsessed.

It is worth nothing we want a pet and not a dog to breed or show, we just want a little one to join us and be loved and spoiled. After doing all our research on the breed and breeders and establishing relationships in the poodle community, are now at the point where we have made 2 very good connections with 2 top UK breeders- both of whom have champion dogs and breed beautiful toy poodles- but both offer us something different so we have ended up confused.
I first became enamoured with poodles when seeing the whites creams apricots and reds. The reds really stole my heart and that was always what we were going to go for. We then luckily got connected to Afterglow but they specialise mainly in black but also get the odd brown pups also. These guys are world renowned and just amazing and breed the most gorgeous dogs- just not in the colour we had set our heart to. People who we have spoken to have said this is a great connection and opportunity to have.
Our other potential breeder is Mrs Riddett of Wightwonder who specialises in apricots and reds. she has earned her CCs and cruft scofflaws with her dogs also and loves them very much.
we also know how important it is to visit mum and pups as we would love to see their temperaments and if there’s a little one we bind with, but the current climate makes it that bit harder, and also dependent on what we could get based on which pups will be for show and which will be pets.
We are now at a case of head vs heart. Do we go with a gorgeous Brown tiny toy from a champion kennel with great health history and breeding or do we go with a gorgeous red toy who are champions in their own right and what stole our heart? I don’t want us to feel we have lost an opportunity but we Are feeling so confused.

With that has anyone one here had any experience with these breeders at all? Has anyone got a brown afterglow poodle or a red Wightwonder poodle?
We are still willing and wanting to learn more and are always keen for any info you can give us.

we are likely also torn between a brown or a red. What more can you tell me about these colours? I have looked up on fading and coat quality but that seems to be down to the breeding lines and can depend on what you get. We will love our dog regardless but it isinteresting to understand what we could get in the end.
Also how tall are some of your apricots or reds? I was told that these end up slightly taller than other toy colours but I’m not sure if this is always true so again all and any advice and wisdom please.
Anything else you can share please feel free. This will be the first toy poodle (poodle) we have had and want to make sure we are making the right decisions to have our happy healthy and loving pup.

Sorry for the very long post, we are just so excited!
Thanks!! Xx

I didn't realize it before reading this thread but my dog 's sire was Sire - GCHB Afterglow Alberto and his dam was MBISS GCHS Dulcinea Creole Voodoo Queen, who dam was - GCH Donnchada My Dream Came True