[poodleluv13]

Hello everyone! I have read this forum for many years and have gained so much knowledge. For 12 years I was blessed with a pure bred toy poodle (she was a tiny 3 pounds) who was the love of my life. She passed away 3 years ago and since then I have devoted myself to animal rescue. I take in hypoallergenic dogs. I am fostering a senior right now and given her body shape she is not a pure bred poodle. I was hoping those of you with good eyes and experience can look at her and see if you note another breed in there so I can figure out what kind of mix she is. I will say she is super sweet !

 

[Newport]

What a pretty little girl! Sorry I do not have any guesses. From these photos she just looks like a poodle.

 

[poodleluv13]

Thank you Newport. The groomers told me they thought she was purebred, but her body shape is not the purebred square as her legs are shorter and she has a longer body. I love all poodles so its hard for me to see anything but poodle in her. She is a mini as she weighs 11 pounds and is 11 inches tall at the withers and her body is either 14 or 15 inches long.

 

[PeggyTheParti]

She is so crazy cute! Ahhh! I love her.

There was a study done a few years ago, which assessed how accurate even dog savvy folks were at guessing mixes. Verdict: Not very!! I tried their quiz and was almost entirely wrong, even when I was sure I was right.

That's why I giggle now when folks say things like, "We got this dog from the shelter. We know nothing of her history. She's likely a Basenji/Dachshund mix. ? Or some variation of that, but always two pure breeds.

We had our Gracie's DNA tested after thinking she was 50/50 miniature poodle/miniature dachshund for most of her life. Turned out she was 1/2 miniature poodle, 1/4 miniature dachshund, and a 1/4 mix of so many breeds, they couldn't even identify them other than to say "guard + terrier."

 

[poodleluv13]

Omg Gracie is sooooo cute! And her body frame looks just like my foster (shorter legs and longer body). And you are right, its so hard to know what breeds are in dogs. The only certain I can say about this little girl is that she is not a shedder and she is sweet. Some adopters ask me all kinds of questions though and all I can tell them is she is a "poodle mix" so I guess I will leave it at that. She is pulling at my heart strings and I want to keep her so bad, but I am so used to the toy size.

 

[PeggyTheParti]

She looks like an absolute dream. I'd take her in a second if I didn't have this nutty spoo puppy. ?

Gracie didn't shed either. And she was about the same weight as your girl. Honestly, I'd have cloned her if I could! Even people who didn't especially like dogs absolutely fell in love with her. And her senior years were especially sweet.

When it was time to choose a new dog, we went pure poodle. But I'll always have a little love in my heart reserved for those mystery mutts. ? Thank you for helping this dear little senior find her forever home.

 

[Dogs4Life]

The groomers told me they thought she was purebred, but her body shape is not the purebred square as her legs are shorter and she has a longer body.

My girl also is a rescue, the size of a mini, but I do not know if she is full poodle or not. She also has a longer body and shorter legs, but this could just be due to bad breeding (she came from a backyard breeding situation). I don't have access to this information right now, but I know others on the forum have brought up a form of dwarfism in poodles, so maybe she is poodle, but has a genetic condition? She is very cute.

 

[Raindrops]

She is adorable! I have seen dogs basically identical to her in my city that are "pure poodle" but are clearly from backyard breeders. The proper square body shape, straight back, and refined face are less accurate in identifying breed than they are at identifying a poodle from a good breeder that is health testing and breeding to standard. So she may still just be poodle. The gene that makes the curly poodle coat must have two copies to present with full curls. One copy of it will result in a wavy coat. So most poodle mixes do not have the full curl coat. But something like a "second generation" labradoodle may very well inherit two copies of the curl gene and get the full poodle coat. Her coat looks quite curly to me, so I'd guess that she's all or mostly poodle.

 

[poodleluv13]

Dogs4Life and Raindrops thank you so much for your responses. I had not heard of poodle dwarfism (going to google that now). Also the gene about the curly coat is something I didn't know about either. She was found in an abandoned home with another poodle so maybe she came from and/or was used by backyard breeders. She has the sweet temperament of the poodle which makes me so loyal to this breed. Honestly before I had a poodle I was never interested in them. But once I had my poodle and fostered others I fell in love with them. They are so smart and the way they just look at you with those eyes.

 

[Dogs4Life]

Even if my girl isn't full poodle, I am just so in love with her. She will sit in my lap and just stare into my eyes while I pet her. Super smart and funny- they do have the best personalities! I have had her for less than 2 years, but it doesn't matter, because we bonded rather quickly.

 

[Dechi]

She looks purebred to me, just not bred to today’s standards. A few decades ago, most poodles had longer bodies with shorter legs. Your girl looks just like that.

 

[Rose n Poos]

It's quite possible she's purebred as the others have said. Dechi mentioned the different body types and this confirms that. I don't remember right now if this came up in a recent thread or just some other info I was looking at but here's a brief excerpt from a different study at UC Davis (and this does not mean there is any disease present).


"One of the emerging problems in Miniature Poodles is intravertebral disc disease (IVDD), something that is common in shorter and longer backed breeds such as the Dachshund and Corgi.

The Miniature Poodle had two different body types: 1) “Correct or square", with legs long enough for their body height equal their length, and 2) short legs and a long back. The latter body type is much more susceptible to IVDD.

Shortening of the legs was first thought to involve a single mutation in what is known as the FGF4 gene. The common mutation leads to what is called chondrodysplasia, a condition that leads to a shortening of the legs and not associated with IVDD.

This mutation has been introduced into many breeds of dogs to decrease the length of long bones and torso and cause some bowing of the front legs. Many Miniature Poodles possess this mutation and its associated phenotype. A second mutation in FGF4 has been recently described (see reference below) that causes a further shortening of the legs and lengthening of the back, but also causes weakness of the cartilage of the spinal discs (Brown et al., 2017). Breeds such as the Dachshund and Corgi have both mutations, explaining the extraordinary shortening of the legs and elongation of the back. The FGF4 mutation has been identified in Miniature Poodles that have suffered IVDD (Brown et al., 2017)."

Link to the study: Genetic Diversity in Miniature Poodles

If you or whoever gives her her new home would want to do the DNA health testing, it is possible to check for the gene for IVDD vs just short legs/long back.

This company for sure

Dog Genetic Health Conditions We Test | Over 190 Conditions | Embark

Discover a plan for healthy aging with Embark’s comprehensive genetic testing that lets you see more about your dog than ever before.

embarkvet.com

If you want to see further studies showing that the location of the gene insertion is the difference between just genetic mutation for shorter legs/longer back vs IVDD

Link to that study: FGF4 retrogene on CFA12 is responsible for chondrodystrophy and intervertebral disc disease in dogs

 

[Starvt]

Rose n Poos that is really fascinating! It does also explain all the lower, longer mini poodles we see in my area- I was having a hard time imagining that virtually all of the minis/toys (admittedly mostly byb) were actually mixes.

 

[poodleluv13]

Dogs4Life and Raindrops thank you so much for your responses. I had not heard of poodle dwarfism (going to google that now). Also the gene about the curly coat is something I didn't know about either. She was found in an abandoned home with another poodle so maybe she came from and/or was used by backyard breeders. She has the sweet temperament of the poodle which makes me so loyal to this breed. Honestly before I had a poodle I was never interested in them. But once I had my poodle and fostered others I fell in love with them. They are so smart and the way they just look at you with those eyes.

Even if my girl isn't full poodle, I am just so in love with her. She will sit in my lap and just stare into my eyes while I pet her. Super smart and funny- they do have the best personalities! I have had her for less than 2 years, but it doesn't matter, because we bonded rather quickly.

It's quite possible she's purebred as the others have said. Dechi mentioned the different body types and this confirms that. I don't remember right now if this came up in a recent thread or just some other info I was looking at but here's a brief excerpt from a different study at UC Davis (and this does not mean there is any disease present).


"One of the emerging problems in Miniature Poodles is intravertebral disc disease (IVDD), something that is common in shorter and longer backed breeds such as the Dachshund and Corgi.

The Miniature Poodle had two different body types: 1) “Correct or square", with legs long enough for their body height equal their length, and 2) short legs and a long back. The latter body type is much more susceptible to IVDD.

Shortening of the legs was first thought to involve a single mutation in what is known as the FGF4 gene. The common mutation leads to what is called chondrodysplasia, a condition that leads to a shortening of the legs and not associated with IVDD.

This mutation has been introduced into many breeds of dogs to decrease the length of long bones and torso and cause some bowing of the front legs. Many Miniature Poodles possess this mutation and its associated phenotype. A second mutation in FGF4 has been recently described (see reference below) that causes a further shortening of the legs and lengthening of the back, but also causes weakness of the cartilage of the spinal discs (Brown et al., 2017). Breeds such as the Dachshund and Corgi have both mutations, explaining the extraordinary shortening of the legs and elongation of the back. The FGF4 mutation has been identified in Miniature Poodles that have suffered IVDD (Brown et al., 2017)."

Link to the study: Genetic Diversity in Miniature Poodles

If you or whoever gives her her new home would want to do the DNA health testing, it is possible to check for the gene for IVDD vs just short legs/long back.

This company for sure

Dog Genetic Health Conditions We Test | Over 190 Conditions | Embark

Discover a plan for healthy aging with Embark’s comprehensive genetic testing that lets you see more about your dog than ever before.

embarkvet.com

If you want to see further studies showing that the location of the gene insertion is the difference between just genetic mutation for shorter legs/longer back vs IVDD

Link to that study: FGF4 retrogene on CFA12 is responsible for chondrodystrophy and intervertebral disc disease in dogs

Rose n Poos thank you so much for adding this information. I am learning so much already from just this thread. IVDD can be painful so I hope she doesn't have it.

 

[Carolinek]

She is so pretty!

Once you have a poodle there’s no going back. The same thing happened to me with my Lily, who is probably a mix but has so many poodle traits that I decided all I wanted was poodles.
If she has the poodle personality, maybe focus on that with adopters? I do think she looks like a poodle, just not to standard.

This is my Lily who made me a poodle convert.
She is ten now and developing a haze on her eyes,I love them all but she’s going to be a particularly hard one to watch age.

 

[poodleluv13]

She is so pretty!

Once you have a poodle there’s no going back. The same thing happened to me with my Lily, who is probably a mix but has so many poodle traits that I decided all I wanted was poodles.
If she has the poodle personality, maybe focus on that with adopters? I do think she looks like a poodle, just not to standard.

This is my Lily who made me a poodle convert.
She is ten now and developing a haze on her eyes,I love them all but she’s going to be a particularly hard one to watch age.

Aww Lily looks like a Parti poodle and from those photos has had such an amazing life with you. I had my toy poodle for 12 years (she died suddenly from an unknown heart condition). She passed 3 years ago and I am still not over it. We did everything together we were unseperable. Because of her size she flew with me everywhere and I always had her in a dog carrier that looked like a purse. After a year of mourning her I decided to foster again to help manage my grief and to give dogs the second chance they deserved. It is so sad what these rescue dogs have gone through. I have a son with severe dog allergies (I'm going create a different post about that) so I can only take hypo breeds for a short amount of time. But this little girl has been with me for almost 3 months because 4 different people have rejected her. I just adore her which is why I am so tempted to keep her. Among all the hypos poodles are my favorite hands down! Around here I am known as "one of those poodle people" as my friends say. lol. I have poodle christmas ornaments etc. I am proud to be a "poodle person"

 

[Carolinek]

I fostered for a long time so understand what you are going through. It’s great she is with you, and I can see the temptation! I’d be tempted too.

 

[Fenris-wolf]

She could be a purebred, but all I know is that she's REALLY CUTE? It makes me sad and mad though that she and another Poodle were abandoned?? I'm really happy that you are fostering her?