[Vibrant]

Hi Everyone,
Please excuse me if I go off on a tangent but poodle health is a passion of mine.
PHR has been referred to on this forum many times. For those who don't know, it refers to Poodle Health Registry, a site where a poodle's pedigree can be entered and health issues researched. It is a valuable tool for breeders and prospective puppy buyers.
What many people don't know is that the only person who can enter the health issues on a certain poodle is the owner of the poodle, not the breeder. As well, there must be veterinary documentation to back up the diagnosis of a health issue.
Honest breeders encourage their puppy owners to report to PHR. What happens, then, is that the honest breeders look as though their lines are full of health issues, when, in fact, there are as many diseases going unreported in what looks like wonderfully clear lines.
Please, please, please....if you have a poodle with a health issue, go to PHR
Poodle Health Registry Contact them about how you can report your dog's disease. It will help the poodle breed by letting breeders know where health issues lie, and make informed decisions in their breeding programs.
Thanks.....Vivienne

 

[Lincoln Love]

question

What if it is a problem like Hemolytic anemia in a puppy? We don't know if it was due to vaccines or something else? Thanks!

 

[ArreauStandardPoodle]

I agree with you Vivienne. Too many breeders will not post things because they are afraid it will taint their reputation. Do you think there is any way we can lobby that a positive diagnosis by a vet should maybe have the vet relaying this info to the PHR, instead of relying on puppy buyers or breeders to do it? Otherwise there is always going to be a ton of missing testing in pedigrees or mis-information. Would this be a violation of privacy or of human rights? I have always felt it should be the vet who makes the diagnosis reporting the findings. But, I guess that eats into a vet's valuable time, and would be like asking the mods here to contact breeders who are being discussed (as I brought up in another thread). But as long as it is left to breeders/owners, there will be valuable missing pieces to the puzzles when we are looking for mates to breed our dogs to.

 

[Lincoln Love]

I agree with you Vivienne. Too many breeders will not post things because they are afraid it will taint their reputation. Do you think there is any way we can lobby that a positive diagnosis by a vet should maybe have the vet relaying this info to the PHR, instead of relying on puppy buyers or breeders to do it? Otherwise there is always going to be a ton of missing testing in pedigrees or mis-information. Would this be a violation of privacy or of human rights? I have always felt it should be the vet who makes the diagnosis reporting the findings. But, I guess that eats into a vet's valuable time, and would be like asking the mods here to contact breeders who are being discussed (as I brought up in another thread). But as long as it is left to breeders/owners, there will be valuable missing pieces to the puzzles when we are looking for mates to breed our dogs to.

Yes, I would assume the majority would not be reported. How do the dog owners even know report it? I hope the vet gives them this info.

 

[ArreauStandardPoodle]

Yes, I would assume the majority would not be reported. How do the dog owners even know report it? I hope the vet gives them this info.

No, I don't think they do!

 

[Vibrant]

What if it is a problem like Hemolytic anemia in a puppy? We don't know if it was due to vaccines or something else? Thanks!

Hemolytic anemia is an autoimmune disease, whether brought on by vaccines or anything else. The tendency to react against one's own body relates to a problem in the immune system, and could be genetic in origin.
It is worth reporting to PHR...if you look on the website there are some dogs already up there for AIHA or IMHA.

 

[Vibrant]

I agree with you Vivienne. Too many breeders will not post things because they are afraid it will taint their reputation. Do you think there is any way we can lobby that a positive diagnosis by a vet should maybe have the vet relaying this info to the PHR, instead of relying on puppy buyers or breeders to do it? Otherwise there is always going to be a ton of missing testing in pedigrees or mis-information. Would this be a violation of privacy or of human rights? I have always felt it should be the vet who makes the diagnosis reporting the findings. But, I guess that eats into a vet's valuable time, and would be like asking the mods here to contact breeders who are being discussed (as I brought up in another thread). But as long as it is left to breeders/owners, there will be valuable missing pieces to the puzzles when we are looking for mates to breed our dogs to.

I don't think it's the vet's responsibility as they'd be spending their lives reporting to various animal health registries!! Also, there is the issue of patient confidentiality. However, it would be helpful to make vets aware of PHR, so they could recommend it to poodle owners who have an affected dog.

 

[Olie]

Do you think there is any way we can lobby that a positive diagnosis by a vet should maybe have the vet relaying this info to the PHR, instead of relying on puppy buyers or breeders to do it? Otherwise there is always going to be a ton of missing testing in pedigrees or mis-information. Would this be a violation of privacy or of human rights? I have always felt it should be the vet who makes the diagnosis reporting the findings. But, I guess that eats into a vet's valuable time, and would be like asking the mods here to contact breeders who are being discussed (as I brought up in another thread). But as long as it is left to breeders/owners, there will be valuable missing pieces to the puzzles when we are looking for mates to breed our dogs to.

In a perfect world I think this would be ideal! I am not sure if it would be a violation of HR or not... But it would not be that difficult for the admins to pull up and enter on the site in the Vets office.

 

[ArreauStandardPoodle]

Well, that would be a start.

 

[Dogsinstyle]

Hemolytic anemia, AIHA, addison's and all the autoimmune diseases are VERY important to track. Parti poodles in particular are being diagnosed with thsese problems in an alarming rate over the last 3-4 years.
In the 8 or 9 years since parti's became wildly popular it has taken this long to begin to really track what is in some of the lines.
The only way to get a handle on where the concentration of problems are is to report. HA and AIHA are very concerning. It may need a trigger, but the underlying immune dysfuntion is there.
Carole

 

[Vibrant]

I'd also like to clarify that the purpose of PHR is not to 'out' breeders' health issues. The saying goes that the issue is not 'if' a breeder turns up health issues, it is 'when'. Even the most careful breeder is not immune to problems in their lines. It doesn't make a person a bad breeder if they turn up a disease. But if it's not out there to be seen, breeders can't make informed choices by avoiding breeding to lines that are heavy in a certain problem.
Am I repeating myself?

 

[Vibrant]

Hemolytic anemia, AIHA, addison's and all the autoimmune diseases are VERY important to track. Parti poodles in particular are being diagnosed with thsese problems in an alarming rate over the last 3-4 years.
In the 8 or 9 years since parti's became wildly popular it has taken this long to begin to really track what is in some of the lines.
The only way to get a handle on where the concentration of problems are is to report. HA and AIHA are very concerning. It may need a trigger, but the underlying immune dysfuntion is there.
Carole

Hi Carole,
I thought you might have something to say in this thread. I 'know' you from another forum...my name there is sienna_seiko. I thought this forum was a good one to spread the PHR word...if it hasn't been done before! Lots of poodle owners here!
Vivienne

 

[ArreauStandardPoodle]

In a perfect world I think this would be ideal! I am not sure if it would be a violation of HR or not... But it would not be that difficult for the admins to pull up and enter on the site in the Vets office.

If the kennel clubs and breed clubs got involved, and sent info out to the vets in the areas where the clubs are, maybe it could happen in the not too distant future. As long as we are relying on the breeders, who fear what could happen to their name even if they pulled affected dogs from their breeding program, I cannot see a big change happening.

 

[Dogsinstyle]

"As long as we are relying on the breeders, who fear what could happen to their name even if they pulled affected dogs from their breeding program, I cannot see a big change happening."

Herein lies the problem. It is NOT the breeders! A breeder cannot register a dog on PHR unless they own it. The current owner is the only one who can register a dog.
I will repeat- I printed out and gave forms to the owner of my addison pup 3 times, each time getting an agreement she would register the dog.
Until such time as I, the breeder, am allowed to register a dog I bred, but don't own, I really can't do anything about it. It does bother me- and Nancy is a good friend of mine, she knows my dilemma.
Carole

 

[Vibrant]

Herein lies the problem. It is NOT the breeders! A breeder cannot register a dog on PHR unless they own it. The current owner is the only one who can register a dog.
This is precisely why I started this thread.
Many pet owners don't even think to tell their breeder about health issues that arise in their dog. The breeder needs to know and it needs to be posted on PHR.
I have entered two of my dogs. Seiko, one of my standards, is a vWd carrier and Nicky, my (late) toy poodle had mitral valve prolapse. I'd have liked to have entered my brown standard bitch, who was euthanised at a year because of a seizure that she couldn't come out of, but I couldn't get a definite veterinary diagnosis for epilepsy.
Carole, you're one of the honest breeders. There are those, though, who prefer to hide health issues.

 

[Dogsinstyle]

I think it is a combination of things. There are many breeders who sell lots of pups, and place their breeding stock, and never make any attempts to track the health of either long term. Those are the head in the sand type. Not many puppy buyers re-contact them 4 years later when addisons shows up.
So they can blithely say they have no issues...
It does take work to follow up on dogs. I have all my old dogs still, so at least I have a feel as to how they age, and, for the ones here, I know if they have health issues.
I do know 2 people who have discovered issues (parti), and spayed/neutered what was to them important dogs in the past several months (reported to PHR) so I know breeders with integrity do exist.
Carole

 

[Jillian]

Unless it is required by law, a vet simply isn't going to go throught the administrative chores of doing such a thing, and why should they? Think of all the work they would have to do, get the registered name of the dog (I know my vet doesn't have the registered name of my dogs and he certainly has no clue about the pedigree behind any of my dogs), information on the pedigree of the dog if it isn't already in the database, the owners permission to post the data (which they may or may not give) and thenn they have to pay the people who do the data entry. Why would they pay them for something that isn't productive work for the vets office? For every breed that comes in? I don't think so. Heck, we can barely require human drs to report certain health information for people.

I think it is interesting that this thread swings around to blame the breeders and point fingers at them when it was made clear that the breeders have no control over what is entered into this system if they don't own the dogs. Why are people here so antibreeder? It is really baffling to me.

 

[ArreauStandardPoodle]

I am a breeder and would report something if it came up on the dogs I have bred or will breed. I personally mentioned breeders because I personally know breeders who have chosen to not report HD and epilepsy. I feel we need to start with the breeders. A friend of mine just let the cat out of the bag on another forum about a well known parti who has been bred a lot that now has Addisons, and she has been told she will now be blackballed in the parti circles. This dog has been pulled from the breeding program of its owner and its illness reported but apparently some of the circle wanted to keep it quiet because they own/breed offspring of this dog or know people who do and wanted to keep it hushed up. THIS is ridiculous and a HUGE problem!! THAT is why I mentioned breeders. While I know there are breeders with integrity (and I would rather deal with a breeder who has reported and issue) there are far too many worried about how reporting will affect them.

 

[Olie]

I think I mentioned in a perfect world the Vet's admins could post. The likelyhood, not. But I dont think its impossible either

And this is NOT an antibreeder forum to make a blanket statement as was.

There are not so good, and very good breeders out there. But as the same time there are many breeders that still have the pups registrations or co-own in situations, so it seems starting there is a good way to educate buyers down the road should anything happen.

 

[Vibrant]

I think it is interesting that this thread swings around to blame the breeders and point fingers at them when it was made clear that the breeders have no control over what is entered into this system if they don't own the dogs. Why are people here so antibreeder? It is really baffling to me.[/QUOTE]

Hi Jillian,
I don't think anyone who has posted on this thread is anti-breeder, least of all myself! I do think that some breeders will make their puppy buyers aware of, and encourage them to use PHR if necessary, but some will avoid it. A case I know of...a friend had a dog who had seizures so she told the breeder. The breeder told her there was no epilepsy in her lines and told her to keep quiet about it. Denial doesn't help the breed.
Then you have the breeders like Carole, who has told us she's tried to get one of her puppy buyers to post on PHR. She obviously cares about the health of the breed, and is frustrated by the lack of cooperation of her puppy buyer.
This takes me back to the reason I started this thread...to remind poodle owners that they can have a voice in the overall health of their breed. If their dog is affected by any kind of genetic disorder, let the breeder know and send in the paperwork to PHR.