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Yesterday I took Niko to run at the dog field. It has been absolutely horrible weather here for days with constant downpouring of rain. So it was just me and 1 other guy there. He asked if Niko was a labradoodle and I said no he was a poodle. He was shocked and said most standard poodles he has met have not been at all nice, not good with other dogs and generally not nice dogs. He told me to watch out to make sure Niko doesn't end up like that. I don't get it.
 

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You may have noticed how much emphasis we on the forum place on carefully researching and choosing a breeder. It is not just about health concerns, you also need to look at the temperament of the breeding dogs. Personally, I look to see if the breeder has produced dogs with performance titles as well as championships, because I want a dog that is intelligent and trainable as well as pretty. It is why breeders who show their dogs and title them are recommended; because a dog that is shown has demonstrated that he or she can be taken out in public around people and other dogs and behave nicely.

Just being a poodle does not guarantee anything. You have to do the work and choose a poodle who comes from parents who have demonstrated the qualities you want in your dog.
 

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You may have noticed how much emphasis we on the forum place on carefully researching and choosing a breeder. It is not just about health concerns, you also need to look at the temperament of the breeding dogs. Personally, I look to see if the breeder has produced dogs with performance titles as well as championships, because I want a dog that is intelligent and trainable as well as pretty. It is why breeders who show their dogs and title them are recommended; because a dog that is shown has demonstrated that he or she can be taken out in public around people and other dogs and behave nicely.

Just being a poodle does not guarantee anything. You have to do the work and choose a poodle who comes from parents who have demonstrated the qualities you want in your dog.
Totally agree. I just found out so strange to hear him say that every poodle he has every met hasn't been nice. He was disappointed Niko wasn't a doodle. Niko currently has long hair so somewhat looks like a doodle I suppose.
 

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It’s hard to believe every contact this guy has had with a Poodle has been negative. He's either spouting what he's hearing from others, or he hasn't met many Poodles. I run into SPOOs regularly in my area and not a single one has been nasty or ill-tempered. Without exception, their owners have fearlessly allowed my kids to greet their dogs. I’ve never witnessed a SPOO show dog aggression either. Maybe I live in a bubble. As addressed in other ongoing threads, there’s definitely a bias against Poodles for whatever reason – let them have their doodles…
 

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It’s hard to believe every contact this guy has had with a Poodle has been negative. He's either spouting what he's hearing from others, or he hasn't met many Poodles. I run into SPOOs regularly in my area and not a single one has been nasty or ill-tempered. Without exception, their owners have fearlessly allowed my kids to greet their dogs. I’ve never witnessed a SPOO show dog aggression either. Maybe I live in a bubble. As addressed in other ongoing threads, there’s definitely a bias against Poodles for whatever reason – let them have their doodles…
Same here. At another dog park I go to there is a guy that has 2 standards, and he tells me they are both pretty much bomb proof. He loves poodles so much he even offered to dog sit for me if I ever needed it.
 

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I’m not sure why it has become socially acceptable to go up to anybody with a dog, or anything else for that matter, and tell them how much you don’t like said thing. With poodles people will proudly tell you how much they don’t like the breed and then introduce you to their 3/4 poodle doodle 🤣
 

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You may have noticed how much emphasis we on the forum place on carefully researching and choosing a breeder. It is not just about health concerns, you also need to look at the temperament of the breeding dogs. Personally, I look to see if the breeder has produced dogs with performance titles as well as championships, because I want a dog that is intelligent and trainable as well as pretty. It is why breeders who show their dogs and title them are recommended; because a dog that is shown has demonstrated that he or she can be taken out in public around people and other dogs and behave nicely.

Just being a poodle does not guarantee anything. You have to do the work and choose a poodle who comes from parents who have demonstrated the qualities you want in your dog.
This is truth.

However, even buying from a conscientious and experienced breeder doesn't guarantee a problem-free animal. There's always going to be variation, always outliers, some positive and some negative. Mine is a prime example - came from a reputable breeder who was and still is recommended on this site. I know of no similar problems with their other dogs, yet mine's had IBD since he was 2 (intestinal necrosis confirmed by biopsy), hips that can't carry him for more than a couple of miles before he starts limping despite careful pre-conditioning (his joints are normal, it's the way he's put together), and is dog and people aggressive. Fortunately, he also has plenty of positive qualities that offset the negatives and his IBD has been practically asymptomatic for the last 6 yrs. He's never once been sick otherwise, so there's no reason he won't have a long life.

And then there's the nuture part of the equation - SPOOs can be challenging dogs to raise and train. Early bad habits can escalate into something dangerous if ignored and be a passing phase if dealt with appropriately. It's hard for someone who doesn't know a dog and its history to tell how much of their bad behavior is unfortunate genetics and how much is unfortunate dog-rearing.
 

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This is truth.

However, even buying from a conscientious and experienced breeder doesn't guarantee a problem-free animal. There's always going to be variation, always outliers, some positive and some negative. Mine is a prime example - came from a reputable breeder who was and still is recommended on this site. I know of no similar problems with their other dogs, yet mine's had IBD since he was 2 (intestinal necrosis confirmed by biopsy), hips that can't carry him for more than a couple of miles before he starts limping despite careful pre-conditioning (his joints are normal, it's the way he's put together), and is dog and people aggressive. Fortunately, he also has plenty of positive qualities that offset the negatives and his IBD has been practically asymptomatic for the last 6 yrs. He's never once been sick otherwise, so there's no reason he won't have a long life.

And then there's the nuture part of the equation - SPOOs can be challenging dogs to raise and train. Early bad habits can escalate into something dangerous if ignored and be a passing phase if dealt with appropriately. It's hard for someone who doesn't know a dog and its history to tell how much of their bad behavior is unfortunate genetics and how much is unfortunate dog-rearing.
I appreciate your perspective so much. I don't think some of these realities get discussed enough, so thank you for your honesty. Often owners of physically or temperamentally "difficult" poodles will poke their heads in for advice, and then we never hear from them again, which is such a shame.

It sounds like you've rolled really well with your boy's particular challenges, although I imagine there have been some tough moments. I've certainly had my share with Peggy, and it's why I'm sometimes a little hard on prospective owners here, especially if I get the sense they're focusing more on the poodle coat than all the other things (good and sometimes not-so-good) that make a poodle a poodle.

I hate to anthropomorphize, but poodles can be eerily toddler-like. Peggy, I often say, is like a sharp-toothed toddler crossed with an Arabian mare. I know a lot of people who deeply love dogs, who would NOT rise happily to the challenge of keeping a sensitive toddler-horse happy and mentally stimulated. Lol.

Do you think you'll ever get another poodle?
 

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Yesterday I took Niko to run at the dog field. It has been absolutely horrible weather here for days with constant downpouring of rain. So it was just me and 1 other guy there. He asked if Niko was a labradoodle and I said no he was a poodle. He was shocked and said most standard poodles he has met have not been at all nice, not good with other dogs and generally not nice dogs. He told me to watch out to make sure Niko doesn't end up like that. I don't get it.
My grandma had 2 poodles when my dad was young, named Brandy & Duchess.

By everyone's accounts, they were both very territorial, reactive, & possessive- grandma was their person, everyone else was expendable.

My dad was super upset when he found out we were getting a poodle, even exclaiming, "I HATE POODLES!"

We take Fi to visit him fairly often, & now he tells everyone, "she's the best! She's the only POODLE I've ever liked! She's a sweet girl!"

Duchess tried to rip his foot off as a 5 year old, so I don't blame him for being traumatized, & maybe this guy was, too.

It's kind of nice that our dogs can sort of be ambassadors for the breed, & maybe help some people heal.
 

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I appreciate your perspective so much. I don't think some of these realities get discussed enough, so thank you for your honesty. Often owners of physically or temperamentally "difficult" poodles will poke their heads in for advice, and then we never hear from them again, which is such a shame.

It sounds like you've rolled really well with your boy's particular challenges, although I imagine there have been some tough moments. I've certainly had my share with Peggy, and it's why I'm sometimes a little hard on prospective owners here, especially if I get the sense they're focusing more on the poodle coat than all the other things (good and sometimes not-so-good) that make a poodle a poodle.

I hate to anthropomorphize, but poodles can be eerily toddler-like. Peggy, I often say, is like a sharp-toothed toddler crossed with an Arabian mare. I know a lot of people who deeply love dogs, who would NOT rise happily to the challenge of keeping a sensitive toddler-horse happy and mentally stimulated. Lol.

Do you think you'll ever get another poodle?
It's funny, because I first joined here when I got Kohl. I think I posted once when he had severe problems when crated. I work, so Kohl almost went back to the breeder's because I absolutely couldn't have a pup that can't be crated. To their credit, they were more than willing to take him back if I felt he wasn't adjusting fast enough or well enough. It was a shame that when they said he'd be accustomed to the crate, what they meant was that he'd be accustomed to sleeping in a crate with his 12 siblings. He'd never been in a crate by himself before he came to me. What an unpleasant surprise for both of us!

Anyway, I didn't get any replies - or if I did get one it suggested the usual stuff I already knew to do - Crate Games and the like. After that, I never posted about any problems with Kohl. I did post a couple of photos, and I think I posted about how amazing he was about being groomed, probably with his 13wk-old photo where I'd groomed him for Christmas Eve :love:. The breeder clearly spent a lot of time gently desensitizing him to every aspect of grooming. He was absolutely amenable and calm during bathing, blow drying, clipping, scissoring.

The thing is, partially because I'd had immediate problems and partially because I thought a dog sport would be good for a smart and active dog, I had Kohl in multiple classes from the time he had all of his vaccines. In addition to the training I did at home, of course. None of the classes were near me so they took up a lot of my free time. I quit posting or coming to the forum because I was just so tired. Everything was about work or working with Kohl but it was fun. Other than a delay in his potty training, we were good. Then he started with the dog aggression and I couldn't even take him for a walk to relax. The people aggression started around then as well, but that was a rare event and he did a lot of threat posturing so it was easy to manage before we found out if he'd take it past threats.

Fortunately, because his issue with dogs was pretty severe, he has been very trainable. He will never be trustworthy off leash. Such a shame, because his recall is great. But on lead, he went from going for any dog he could see that he took offense to, which was the majority of them, to being perfectly well-behaved even in a crowd of dogs unless one literally runs up and gets nose-to-nose with him. Even then, if he's with me he doesn't even growl - just looks at me and waits for me to take care of it for him. He goes to the groomer and he's so good with dogs in close quarters that they don't believe me when I tell them they need to be careful with him. He will still occasionally growl at other animals at the vet so I keep him out of the waiting area until it's time to go back - the stress is too much for him.

That's a big wall of text to say that Kohl has worn me out. His issues were pretty much under control by the time he was 5-6 yrs. old and I'm still thinking that he may be my last dog, period. And yes, I often think that I actually bought myself a 3yr old kid and not a dog at all. I'm not sure I want to do all of that again, even though he is my favorite clown :LOL:. If after he is gone I have recovered mentally and decide I do want another dog, it will almost certainly be a SPOO or a Moyen from a performance/sport dog breeder.

There are other smart working and herding breeds. I used to have Shelties and they were every bit as quick to learn, but were not as ingenious. But I have to admit the non-shedding coat is the icing on the cake. I had no idea I'd appreciate it this much.
 

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It's funny, because I first joined here when I got Kohl. I think I posted once when he had severe problems when crated. I work, so Kohl almost went back to the breeder's because I absolutely couldn't have a pup that can't be crated. To their credit, they were more than willing to take him back if I felt he wasn't adjusting fast enough or well enough. It was a shame that when they said he'd be accustomed to the crate, what they meant was that he'd be accustomed to sleeping in a crate with his 12 siblings. He'd never been in a crate by himself before he came to me. What an unpleasant surprise for both of us!

Anyway, I didn't get any replies - or if I did get one it suggested the usual stuff I already knew to do - Crate Games and the like. After that, I never posted about any problems with Kohl. I did post a couple of photos, and I think I posted about how amazing he was about being groomed, probably with his 13wk-old photo where I'd groomed him for Christmas Eve :love:. The breeder clearly spent a lot of time gently desensitizing him to every aspect of grooming. He was absolutely amenable and calm during bathing, blow drying, clipping, scissoring.

The thing is, partially because I'd had immediate problems and partially because I thought a dog sport would be good for a smart and active dog, I had Kohl in multiple classes from the time he had all of his vaccines. In addition to the training I did at home, of course. None of the classes were near me so they took up a lot of my free time. I quit posting or coming to the forum because I was just so tired. Everything was about work or working with Kohl but it was fun. Other than a delay in his potty training, we were good. Then he started with the dog aggression and I couldn't even take him for a walk to relax. The people aggression started around then as well, but that was a rare event and he did a lot of threat posturing so it was easy to manage before we found out if he'd take it past threats.

Fortunately, because his issue with dogs was pretty severe, he has been very trainable. He will never be trustworthy off leash. Such a shame, because his recall is great. But on lead, he went from going for any dog he could see that he took offense to, which was the majority of them, to being perfectly well-behaved even in a crowd of dogs unless one literally runs up and gets nose-to-nose with him. Even then, if he's with me he doesn't even growl - just looks at me and waits for me to take care of it for him. He goes to the groomer and he's so good with dogs in close quarters that they don't believe me when I tell them they need to be careful with him. He will still occasionally growl at other animals at the vet so I keep him out of the waiting area until it's time to go back - the stress is too much for him.

That's a big wall of text to say that Kohl has worn me out. His issues were pretty much under control by the time he was 5-6 yrs. old and I'm still thinking that he may be my last dog, period. And yes, I often think that I actually bought myself a 3yr old kid and not a dog at all. I'm not sure I want to do all of that again, even though he is my favorite clown :LOL:. If after he is gone I have recovered mentally and decide I do want another dog, it will almost certainly be a SPOO or a Moyen from a performance/sport dog breeder.

There are other smart working and herding breeds. I used to have Shelties and they were every bit as quick to learn, but were not as ingenious. But I have to admit the non-shedding coat is the icing on the cake. I had no idea I'd appreciate it this much.
Aw. It sounds like you and Kohl make a wonderful team. You've clearly put in the time and effort to create the best life possible with him and for him, so for that I commend you. :) He sounds like a fantastic boy, too, despite his challenges.

My husband and I sometimes feel like all we talk about is Peggy. Our lives certainly revolve around her. So I understand why at the end of the day you may not always feel like sharing here. But I'm happy to have "met" you and hope we continue to hear more from you. I suspect you've accumulated a lot of wisdom over the years with Kohl!
 

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Yesterday I took Niko to run at the dog field. It has been absolutely horrible weather here for days with constant downpouring of rain. So it was just me and 1 other guy there. He asked if Niko was a labradoodle and I said no he was a poodle. He was shocked and said most standard poodles he has met have not been at all nice, not good with other dogs and generally not nice dogs. He told me to watch out to make sure Niko doesn't end up like that. I don't get it.
Jenna, this may be more about attitude than dogs.

When our son was an infant a friend asked me if we'd let him get a bike or drive at 16. (All I wanted at that point was to survive bath time.)

Some people are earnest in seeing more potential problems than joys.
 
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