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Hi guys,
just put a deposit on my a poodle puppy. Just wanted to see if anyone else has purchased a poodle from www.royalpoodle.ca

The contract that I am required to sign indicates that I am to make the final payment prior to seeing the pup. Is this normal?
 

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That would concern me, too. And I’ll be honest - those inflated prices ($8,000??) and the fact that they’re passing off merle dogs as purebred poodles are a major red flag.

Have you visited the breeder? What sort of health testing do they do?

I did my personal “scam test” and copied and pasted some of the text from their website into Google. The results are another red flag:

472479
 

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If you’ve not already, take a look here: Finding the Right Puppy & Breeder

Lots of good info on finding a reputable breeder. There’s a huge demand for puppies right now, due to covid, and unfortunately some people see that as an opportunity to exploit dogs and take advantage of well-intentioned buyers and adopters. So it’s good to be extra cautious.
 

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That would concern me, too. And I’ll be honest - those inflated prices ($8,000??) and the fact that they’re passing off merle dogs as purebred poodles are a major red flag.

Have you visited the breeder? What sort of health testing do they do?

I did my personal “scam test” and copied and pasted some of the text from their website into Google. The results are another red flag:

View attachment 472479
Thanks very much for providing me with your insight. I’ve asked for their address several times and have still not provided it. Their website doesn’t have a contact number or address. They have posted poodles for sale on kiji with a contact number. I’ve called twice and no answer and no recorded message. Feeling very worried that I’m out $1k
That would concern me, too. And I’ll be honest - those inflated prices ($8,000??) and the fact that they’re passing off merle dogs as purebred poodles are a major red flag.

Have you visited the breeder? What sort of health testing do they do?

I did my personal “scam test” and copied and pasted some of the text from their website into Google. The results are another red flag:

View attachment 472479
thanks very much. I’ve joined this on behalf of my elderly mom. She has already put a $1k deposit. The contract said that she had to pay the remainder prior to picking the dog up. I’ve put a halt on that and am trying to do some investigating for her.
Their website doesn’t have a contact number or address and I have contacted them via Facebook and they are just not providing their address. Had to find their contact number in a kiji add I found but when I called there was no answer and no option to leave a message. In fact there was no message at all. Just an automated message indicating that voice mail was not set up and therefore unavailable. Finding this very suspicious.
 

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I took a look at the pedigrees and don't recognise any of the names. I also have never heard of them, and live in Ontario. I would definitely NOT send the rest of the money!!! Also very suspicious to have puppies available now. Wonder if the payment method she used allows her to cancel?

Share this with your mom :

 

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Oh yikes. Elderly people are extremely vulnerable to scams and disreputable sellers. I'm just so sorry. I haven't looked yet but I trust what PtP found well enough to say I would run like hell. You can find a well bred pup from titled, health tested parents for 3k (I'm guessing Canadian equivalent price) Better that than be out the rest of the payment for one of these dogs... even if this puppy exists which it may not.
 

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Wow I looked at their website & wow, no. Merles are not a purebred Poodles. I have shared this on the board in another thread. I sort of got into it with a young breeder who was breeding merles & very excited about it. When I said they weren't purebred Poodles she became very upset. To keep it short, I made her a deal, if she would have the dogs tested & the test came back that her dogs were purebred poodles, I would pay the fee & take a merle female & of course admit how wrong I was. She did... I finally checked in with her because I am many things but I do not lie. I made her a deal & I would stick to it. She was devestated when tests came back & her merle poodles were not purebreds but mixed breeds. I share her story because I don't like con men/women preying on others. To date I have not been able to uncover proof that merles existed naturally in Poodles, I have been digging into Poodle colors for awhile now.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Another big tell is that none of the dogs are in a position where a trained eye can really evaluate their conformation. They have one male who is standing but it's not a great shot to evaluate him. Their best in North America claim is sales pitch, not fact or based on any kind of foundation. The Best... that comes with health tests that breeder proudly share. The best comes with photos that have you drooling over how correct the dogs are. Not what you see there.

Maybe you can get your money back if you used paypal or something similar by dispute. I hope so. That the seller is not giving you a means to speak with them would be enough for me.
 

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Wow I looked at their website & wow, no. Merles are not a purebred Poodles. I have shared this on the board in another thread. I sort of got into it with a young breeder who was breeding merles & very excited about it. When I said they weren't purebred Poodles she became very upset. To keep it short, I made her a deal, if she would have the dogs tested & the test came back that her dogs were purebred poodles, I would pay the fee & take a merle female & of course admit how wrong I was. She did... I finally checked in with her because I am many things but I do not lie. I made her a deal & I would stick to it. She was devestated when tests came back & her merle poodles were not purebreds but mixed breeds. I share her story because I don't like con men/women preying on others. To date I have not been able to uncover proof that merles existed naturally in Poodles, I have been digging into Poodle colors for awhile now.

I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Another big tell is that none of the dogs are in a position where a trained eye can really evaluate their conformation. They have one male who is standing but it's not a great shot to evaluate him. Their best in North America claim is sales pitch, not fact or based on any kind of foundation. The Best... that comes with health tests that breeder proudly share. The best comes with photos that have you drooling over how correct the dogs are. Not what you see there.

Maybe you can get your money back if you used paypal or something similar by dispute. I hope so. That the seller is not giving you a means to speak with them would be enough for me.
Thank you so very much for this information. Both my mom and sister are absolutely freaking out as my sister also put a deposit down.
It’s very upsetting that this could happen. I wish they would have told me before they parted with their money. They sent an e-transfer. I wish it was PayPal. That’s all I use.
Very useful information about Merle poodles too. I had no idea. Thank you for this insight.
 

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Thank you so very much for this information. Both my mom and sister are absolutely freaking out as my sister also put a deposit down.
It’s very upsetting that this could happen. I wish they would have told me before they parted with their money. They sent an e-transfer. I wish it was PayPal. That’s all I use.
Very useful information about Merle poodles too. I had no idea. Thank you for this insight.

You're welcome. I hate it that they're going through this. It's heart wrenching
 

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I took a look at the pedigrees and don't recognise any of the names. I also have never heard of them, and live in Ontario. I would definitely NOT send the rest of the money!!! Also very suspicious to have puppies available now. Wonder if the payment method she used allows her to cancel?

Share this with your mom :

Hi there, thanks for your insight. Unfortunately both my mom and sister used e-transfer to pay their pricey deposit. Im curious what you meant by you’re surprised that they have puppies now? Could you help me understand why it would be a surprise.... I am extremely new to this and just trying to do digging for them.
 

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An e-transfer :( oh no. Could you report to the OPP as a scam? These sorts of things make my blood boil. Also report to Kijiji to take down the ad.

I am surprised they have puppies now because in the pandemic the demand for puppies has skyrocketed. Many good breeders have waitlist that are a year or two long at this point, so having a litter with almost no puppies sold from it would be very, very odd. Less so before the pandemic or with a new breeder, but very odd right now.

There is a thread in the poodle breeding section with a list of breeders by region. There are many in Ontario listed. Being on the list isn't a guarantee of a good breeder, so buyer beware, but does say someone on poodleforum has looked through a website and seen good things. Usually people here are pretty good about looking through a website or a contract if you ask about a particular breeder, and are happy to point out red flags.

Also - not sure which puppies they reserved, but my puppy with CKC champion parents, genetic tests, hip tests, eye tests on the parents, etc was $2000 in 2019. Other breeders that were more established charged $2500. Even if these puppies exist, the pricing is crazy.
 

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Here's the thread with a list of breeders. There are probably other breeders that are also good and not on this list, but it's a starting place.

 

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Here's the thread with a list of breeders. There are probably other breeders that are also good and not on this list, but it's a starting place.

Thanks very much.
 

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Since you're stepping in to help your mom and sister and it sounds like they may not have a lot of experience in what to look for in a quality, conscientious breeder I'm putting my personal checklist below and will add a few comments to help them know what to look for and to avoid. It's terrible the ways that some people will take advantage of others who are looking for a wonderful companion.

There is one small silver lining. Even if they can't recover their deposit money, any poodle from a legitimate breeder will still be several thousand dollars less than they might have paid out.


Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $1500 to up to $3000 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.
Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature only cutesy puppies with bows and such, no info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

If you review the Breeder List the Health info is still a useful resource tho it's possible that the Canadian breed clubs may have some variance. I haven't checked that out yet but I will.

The official Poodle Clubs of any nation are extremely helpful resources. Look for the breeder referral person for your province of city by searching for "Poodle Club of ___".

The Canadian listings are in the international section below the US listings and be sure to review the multi-breeder links too. I wouldn't rule out the US breeders near the border. Importing is a possibility, but I'm not sure how or if under Covid restrictions.

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)


My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing
or by breeding from titled parents. It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available AKC (American Kennel Club), UKC (United Kennel Club) in the US
CKC (Canadian Kennel Club in Canada
The Kennel Club in the Uk
AKC Registry Lookup
https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/store/search/dog_lookup.cfm?returnpage=undefined&_=2770
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see https://www.poodleforum.com/threads/asking-questions-from-a-breeder.273579/post-3294246
and https://www.poodleforum.com/threads/frequency-of-breeding-a-bitch.20388/
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see http://vipoodle.org/health/health-related-publications/
and OFA Lookup https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist, kijiji, or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation. Extra homework will be needed to vet breeders who always have puppies available, or who may have more than a few older puppies or adults needing homes.

This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right. The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.


Contact a few breeders to introduce yourself. Even if they don't have or don't offer what you're looking for, it can be a close knit community. They may know where to refer you.
 

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One thought on the e-transfer, if you haven't already, notify the bank the funds were drawn from, jic there's some way they can help.
 
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