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Discussion Starter #1
I prefer grain-free, but will take all recommendations.

I'm at my wit's end with Bella's tummy troubles.

The short recap of it is that she was fine on raw green tripe and natural balance venison and sweet potato for months. One day diarrea started. Then we switched to cooked chicken and brown, white or jasmine rice and she was fine on that. Even fine on tripe alone (this guy, total Western-med. vet thinks it's awful and she could have caught a parasite but surprise didn't find one in the $200 fecal test, the blood test results still pending for something-or-other. I was overwhelmed if you can't guess.). We'd work the kibble back in and she'd get ill again. Start over. Repeat. Found out dog food formula changed so slowly added in NB poultry & sweet potato (off of tripe for now until we can regulate her tummy). As soon as she was back on 100% kibble the diarrea started again.

Normally we see a holistic vet, who has done two fecal tests and finally came up with one bacteria that she said the presence of wouldn't likely make her ill, but is indicative of tummy troubles. Put her on the ABX and chicken and rice and she was fine...till kibbles.

So now I took her to a local non-holistic vet b/c he uses lasers in his spaying and she's 10 months and I feel like we're pushing it by waiting much longer. I had to be honest about her health in the pre-exam which set him off on a wild goose chase to find her problem. :( I just forked over the entire cost of her laser spay and micro-chipping to a him, instead for: tests, pancure (sp?), B-12 shots (it came back low, I'm thinking due to the MONTHS now of mostly chicken and rice...we had held back on her supplements until we could figure out what made her ill, too), ABX (still has that one kind of bacteria). I feel like they will all come back negative, but choked and couldn't decide what to do.

SO, the vet through out mention of an 'isolated protein' diet. Were we not doing that? Also he, gasp, mentioned SCIENCE DIET (seriously, I couldn't believe it) as a good food to try. I countered with not wanting fillers in my dog food and he said this special, expensive one wasn't over the counter and didn't have fillers. So, any thoughts on that? I'd rather not switch to some pricey vet-only dog food and find something we will continue to buy on our own (to be honest, price isn't an issue if it's QUALITY and doesn't make her sick).

Thanks for any help you can give us!
 

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My puppy is on Wysong and my cocker is on the Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato. Do you know what changed in the formula? He has had a lot of allergy problems lately, and I wonder if this could be the cause. I am planning on switching him to Wysong as well, but I was going to use up what I had first.
 

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Your poor baby. :(
It seems that the main thing that's causing trouble for your little girl is kibble and not home cooking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding home cooked and raw. If you can handle the cost, I say go for it.

There is a fantastic book by Dr. Pitcairn called New Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats . It is amazing and a must have for anyone who is into alternative feeding. Here's the link:

http://www.amazon.com/Pitcairns-Complete-Guide-Natural-Health/dp/157954973X

I also recommend that you check out a site called The Dog Food Project. The lady who is behind it, is a dog nutritionist and has tons on info on feeding dogs. Also, she does in-depth consultations and makes recommendation, if you want to contact her via email. She can recommend commercial diet, home cooked or raw that is tailored for your dog. It is really reasonable and before phone consult she sends you a whole bunch of stuff to fill out, via email and after that you talk and she gives you her advice. I never used her with my three, but I know several people on the Havanese board used her and have nothing but great things to say about her. Her consults are also very reasonable. Any way, here's the link:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

Good luck and keep us posted. :)
 

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Could she be getting into something outside? You know until recently I had no idea that oak trees can cause stomach issues and kidney problems in dogs. I don't know if you have them.

I can't help on the food. Can you try a raw diet? Is that out of the question? We are doing Natural Balance Premium formula but we don't have diarrhea issues like that, sorry wish could be more help.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you everyone for your help. Poodle Lover I will definitely check out that site.

The thing is now this vet has me worried about the bacteria or parasites in the raw. Sigh. I was fine doing a combo so that if we traveled she could have just something easy to take, plus we would stuff her kongs with the kibble (and frozen yogurt so it took her long to get the food out). It's very convenient to have her at least be able to consume kibble!

My puppy is on Wysong and my cocker is on the Natural Balance Venison and Sweet Potato. Do you know what changed in the formula? He has had a lot of allergy problems lately, and I wonder if this could be the cause. I am planning on switching him to Wysong as well, but I was going to use up what I had first.
I belive they said they switched from venison meal to fresh venison. This was in November. I noticed in December or January a bag I picked up had a sticker on it saying new formula with (more or fresh?) venison on it. I'm not sure if the bag that made her so sick did or not. It was odd. It was bigger than I'd ever purchased from a store I never go to. So initially we thought maybe that was the problem.

BTW, just saw on that other site that wysong was recalled. https://www.wysong.net/moreinfo.php
 

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Has she been on probiotics and digestive enzymes? If not, that would be the first thing I would do. Animal Essentials puts out a wonderful, no taste/smell powder formed one. Other fantastic one is by Great Life... chewables but has fishy smell... lots of 'greens' in it.

I wouldn't go with Science Diet either...

Lots of things can cause loose stool... even stress.
I have a list of dog foods and raw food companies I like, on my website. I'd just direct you to look at that page, when you find the time.
Feel free to contact me pm, if you need to. But my first thing would be the DE's and P.
Good luck,
Karen
www.desertreefpoodles.com
 

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Now, i am NOT a science diet fan and they have horrible foods! Hills (the prescription company) has some pretty crappy ingredients, but their foods tend to do their jobs well. Im assuming he wanted to put her on the Z/D diet? If so then a couple things. The food is made where the protein is actually broken down already, so her body does not have to brake it down itself (this is where alot of allergy problems stem from). It is not good ingredients, but it does work very well with all the dogs we have it on. It is Horribly expensive though (here for a 25lb bag it is about 95$). I would consider putting my dog on it for a trial run of 4-6 weeks to see how it works. Just my thoughts.

They are not grain free, but since she seems to do well on the minimal ingredients diets (c/r) have you looked into california natural? Very basic foods. I think wellness simple solutions are pretty basic as well. Those would probably be my next step.

If you use good general hygene and feed good, not spoiled meats then really there arnt more germs from feeding raw then if she were to lick the floor, drink toilet water or eat dirt.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Has she been on probiotics and digestive enzymes? If not, that would be the first thing I would do. Animal Essentials puts out a wonderful, no taste/smell powder formed one. Other fantastic one is by Great Life... chewables but has fishy smell... lots of 'greens' in it.

I wouldn't go with Science Diet either...

Lots of things can cause loose stool... even stress.
I have a list of dog foods and raw food companies I like, on my website. I'd just direct you to look at that page, when you find the time.
Feel free to contact me pm, if you need to. But my first thing would be the DE's and P.
Good luck,
Karen
www.desertreefpoodles.com
Thanks Karen! I will check it out!

Yes, we do Natren's canine probiotics. I forgot to mention that. Plus one of her supplments has some though I don't particularly believe the viability of anything dried and in a container. The other supplements, though I see on the website they don't list exact ingredients (they do on the actual container):
http://www.poodlesupply.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=49&products_id=407


How often would you do probiotics it in a situation like this, do you think? I tend to do a squirt a day.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Now, i am NOT a science diet fan and they have horrible foods! Hills (the prescription company) has some pretty crappy ingredients, but their foods tend to do their jobs well. Im assuming he wanted to put her on the Z/D diet? If so then a couple things. The food is made where the protein is actually broken down already, so her body does not have to brake it down itself (this is where alot of allergy problems stem from). It is not good ingredients, but it does work very well with all the dogs we have it on. It is Horribly expensive though (here for a 25lb bag it is about 95$). I would consider putting my dog on it for a trial run of 4-6 weeks to see how it works. Just my thoughts.

They are not grain free, but since she seems to do well on the minimal ingredients diets (c/r) have you looked into california natural? Very basic foods. I think wellness simple solutions are pretty basic as well. Those would probably be my next step.

If you use good general hygene and feed good, not spoiled meats then really there arnt more germs from feeding raw then if she were to lick the floor, drink toilet water or eat dirt.
What is Z/D? He did say it was pricey (which made me laugh since I'd just been shown $500 for two tests). He used the term 'isolated protein.'

Well, the raw we were feeding was Green Tripe. I felt we used good hygene (borderline obsessive stopping short at bleach - heck, I don't even eat meat myself!) and it didn't keep more than three days, tops. It comes frozen...thaws for one day (combo of counter, but not to complete thaw, then refridgerator). Feed for 2 1/2 - 3 days.

I've not heard of California Natural, but have heard of Wellness. I will add them to my list. We kept with Natural Balance b/c I trusted the breeder's choice and it was grain-free. A friend with unrelated poodles mentioned both of hers required grain-free as well.

I do worry about environmental from our yard. I mean, it's a normal yard but she has gotten into EVERYTHING. She now, no longer seems to eat rocks (we didn't leave her out alone while gone during that phase), she ate through an extension cord :)scared:) that was not plugged in TG. I didn't even think she could get at it. After that she ate through a HOSE. I was beginning to wonder if there was something awful in her tummy but then she is FINE on cooked chicken and rice. I am going :wacko:.

Thank you, everyone, for all your suggestions and ideas. Having a sick dog is just the pits. TG she doesn't act sick or unhappy and still has a voracious appetite.
 

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Z/D is the actual name of the food im talking about (all the Hills foods are named by letter like R, W, K, C, etc followed by /D. I *think* this is the food he is talking about (sounds right for her problem). I would probably not go with any other Hills food for her problem. They sell venison, duck diets, but you could find a better quality one in the store. The Z/D though you cant find anything compairable to the way its broken down in the store. Its not the ingredients with this one (it has chicken as the main meat) since they are already broken down. Its the specific formula.
 

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Maybe Taste of the Wild or Evo, also Fromm is a good food or Now! or Acanna or Orijen. Anything grain free and a very different protein should help her alot. She might also have a hard time digesting the kibbles...try soaking her food in some warm water before she eats it to help with the digestion. If she'll eat it that way of course.
 

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This is going to be slightly "out there" so bear with me.
You said she did well on just plain old cooked chicken and rice... but not on a grain free kibble.

Is there a possibility that she NEEDS the grains, or that they somehow help add bulk to her stool?


Brian does not do well on grain free foods. I have tried EVO, TOTW, Orijen...but if I give him a food with a grain in it, his poops are normal.

Just find a food with a "better" grain like rice instead of corn.

I feed Merrick now, and its working great. (there is barley and rice in it)
just a thought...
 

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This is great thread ...

I also wonder if rice actually helped her :rolffleyes:

I had a friend whose puppy (Collie) got a loose stool and her breeder told her to cook some rice, soak kibble (it was very high quality kibble - I do not know the name , but she had to go to fancy pet store to buy it) with lukewarm water and add some rice and mix it nicely.

Runny poop was gone in a day. She continued to add some rice any time puppy had a tummy problem and always had a great success !!!

PS: I just checked Fromm ingredients - looks GREAT IMO
 

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I was today at PETCO and reading ingredients on allll those different brand dog food bags and after an hour my head was spinning :wacko:- jeeeeezzzzzzz - so many of them !!!!

I guess it could also be individual from dog to a dog of what he prefers and what agrees with his digestive system :rolffleyes:

I have a friend who swears with Eucanuba and tells me he tried more expensive brands over and over and at the and had to settle with Eucanuba since his dog just digested that food the best :rolffleyes:
 

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Thank you, everyone, for all your suggestions and ideas. Having a sick dog is just the pits. TG she doesn't act sick or unhappy and still has a voracious appetite.


Has your Bella been tested for pancreatic dysfunction? Is Bella putting on or keeping weight on?
Eddy has similar problems to bella he is doing better on raw and is able to keep this down well. Like Bella he is fine on chicken and rice, but most other good quality food he has bother with. Vet thinks it might be an enzyme deficiency, Eddy was OK on royal canine (breeder had him on that) but just wanted to eat so much and had very bad tearing and scratching all over. So we changed to better quality food, so we thought but then his tummy did not get on with most things we tried! Then in desperation we put him on raw! he is such a happy bunny on his raw diet, but he still is not gaining any weight, he is about 50lbs at nearly 9 months and 25 inches tall.
We did discover by accident that he can not tolerate Rosemary after he tried eating a bush! So we think this may be a problem as many of the feeds he has tried in the past contain Rosemary as a natural preservative! So that might have been an issue. But at the moment we have not ruled out the pancreatic theory.
Hope you get things sorted soon.
 

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This all sounds similar to what has been going on with my Conan as well. He was fine on the Eukanuba lg breed puppy that the breeder had him on, i didn't know any better and just continued with that. One day he just started with the diarrhea, i tried rice/pumpkin etc, nothing was helping so i took him in and they said he had no good bacteria left in his system. Then we went on antibiotics, he was fine again--until we went off the antibiotics. Well long story short, after a night at the vet hospital, hundreds of $$$, and a "prescription" for iams low-residue, round 2 on antibiotics just ended 2 days ago. This morning I noticed a slightly looser stool at the very end (which is how it started last time we ended the abx). Also he has been on fortiflora for over a month now. I bought some acidophilus and started him on that last night and tonight we are going to try raw :)scared:). BUT it makes great sense to me and i just hope it does for his system as well.
 

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Best of luck to all who have pups with digestive problems : (( - it must be just horrible : (((.

Just never give up trying and finding what agrees with them : (( - poor dogs ... It mush hurt their tummy same as it hurts us when we have tummy problems and imagine that for months *sigh

Yes, I would also definitely try more natural food - one that nature intended !
 
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