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Seems like a close knit little group here

I was just googling standard poodles and saw the reference to the threads and felt compelled to sign up and say something. Somebody has to. Somebody needed to contribute who actually has one of their dogs, knows a lot of owners of their dogs, and knows what kind of breeding they practice. The problem when you give some people a computer and internet connection is they post things that do do not know to be true. They may just imply things, but then again that is why their is so much teenage suicide relating from internet bullying and postings that aren't true. If any of you have any actual facts to share then please do post them as I will be using this site to further enhancement my knowledge regarding Standard Poodles and what's available. Like you said their dogs are expensive so I'm just doing my due diligence before purchasing another Std.
 
My previous Standard was from show stock and resulting in 13 years of heart ache as the breeder was trying for the perfect show dog and the animal suffered as a result.
Can you give us your former show dog's pedigree? What health issues did it have? Living to age 13 is not bad.

I was not going to go through that again, so I chose them because their breeding practices ARE in the best interest of the puppies and parents health and longevity.
What exactly do you like about their breeding practices? What makes them superior? I see Pendragon throwing around a lot of rhetoric but saying things does not necessarily make them true. What specifically do you think they are doing right because they engage in practices that make a lot of us cringe.
 
...Well according to their site they're downsizing their products so I'd act fast if I were you

They charge more for certain colours,
They have numerous bitches giving birth at a time
And weirdest part of all is the fact that they allow their dogs to whelp litters on their couch

If you're happy about the dogs you've gotten that's great, but don't patronize us and say that they're from the best breeders in the world
 
Discussion starter · #64 ·
I was just googling standard poodles and saw the reference to the threads and felt compelled to sign up and say something. Somebody has to. Somebody needed to contribute who actually has one of their dogs, knows a lot of owners of their dogs, and knows what kind of breeding they practice. The problem when you give some people a computer and internet connection is they post things that do do not know to be true. They may just imply things, but then again that is why their is so much teenage suicide relating from internet bullying and postings that aren't true. If any of you have any actual facts to share then please do post them as I will be using this site to further enhancement my knowledge regarding Standard Poodles and what's available. Like you said their dogs are expensive so I'm just doing my due diligence before purchasing another Std.

Do YOU know facts? Other than you like your Pendragon dogs and like Heather and Greg? Do YOU KNOW if they health test their breeding dogs? Do you KNOW if they bred a nine year old bitch? You are asking US for facts. Well, you have been there, met them, bought dogs from them, so why don't YOU share facts with us. Do they or do they not health test? Where would the results be posted? Do they or do they not breed bitches as old as nine? Maybe you can help us all understand their logic.
 
Show vs pet

My previous dog was from the Whytecliff line (not sure if I spelled that right). His mother was a Canadian Champ apparently. His line was bred for confirmation (again not sure if it is conformation). Anyway his organs did not fit right in his abdomen so he had kidney problems, twisted intenstines, seizures, a host of allergies to almost everything, and you could not trust him around anyone he didn't know, kids included. I spent the last several weeks making his food trying to get him to eat. And sorry I was wrong he wasn't 13 he was 11 years 2 months. All that being said he was a great dog to me and I miss him dearly. I do not know if all dogs from that line were unhealthy, though I have met many other owners who suffered similar fates.

What I like about their dogs at least the line mine comes from is they are tall and stocky and healthy and I can trust him with anyone. Sure he'll give a visitor to our house a story when they knock. But I can let him out and he won't try to eat them. Every one of their dogs is like this. I think it has to do with the 8 weeks leading up to adoption. They are trained, exposed to all kinds of other animals and lots of people. I spent almost every day at their place during the 8 weeks before he came home. It was an amazing place. Puppies playing with other dogs outside, farm animals running around. When they lived in BC they were a foster home for rescue animals. If an animal was hurt and the local pet hospitals couldn't keep it, they sent it to their house. One time they took in a big standard Logan who had been beaten with a 2x4. They loved him even though he ate the inside of the truck. One day they took in 100 chicks some guy was not looking after. I have a picture of my son at 1yr old sitting ina tub with 100 chicks crawling all over them. So what do I like about their breeding practices? I guess it is if I were a dog it would be a great place to live. Allowed to run and be a dog until it's time to do the deed. Living the dream. LOL. I believe people are a product of their environment and suspect that dogs are too. So I chose them because of the environment they make available to their dogs.
 
Discussion starter · #68 ·
http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_descend.pl?id=104481
This lucky girl had 9 litters. Several of her daughters had their first litter just after 12 months of age. Of the 250 plus Pendragon dogs on PHR, most average a COI of 25., some over 30.
I'm not sure which of these breeding practices are acceptable under any circumstance.
Carole
Thank you Carole. You saved me having to look this up. I was just told by another breeder about this poor gal last week, and was hoping I would not have to wade through all the dogs on PHR to find her.

Bailey'sdad...is this sort of thing okay with you????????????????
 
I forgot to say

I do not know if they health test. I just know they have healthy dogs. And time has supported that. Please educate me here what is the purpose of health testing and what body does it. Is it for show purposes? Appreciate the answers. I'm smarter now then when I woke up today.

I think the oldest female they had was Igrain and no she was not bred when she was nine. When the females are retired or whatever you call it, they retire to a life of leisure. They're not sold off because they cost money to feed. Same with the males. I've seen their records and they are meticulous in which dogs they breed and when so as to ensure they aren't bred frequently. That is why they have so many dogs. They explained to me one time that for every three times most breeders breed a female they only breed her twice. So if anything they err on the side of less frequent breeding not more.
 
Discussion starter · #71 ·
http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_descend.pl?id=104481
This lucky girl had 9 litters. Several of her daughters had their first litter just after 12 months of age. Of the 250 plus Pendragon dogs on PHR, most average a COI of 25., some over 30.
I'm not sure which of these breeding practices are acceptable under any circumstance.
Carole
Carole...I cannot get this link to open. Could you give me this girl's registered name please?
 
COI is Wright's Coefficient of Inbreeding. It is a measure of how related the parents of the dog were.

That is the very problem that evolved from the Wycliffe dogs breeding closely for many generations. Much information is found here:
Canine Diversity Homepage
Even though Dr. Armstrong has been gone for many years, his insights are valid today.

Pendragon is on that same path, if you look at the pedigrees, many are half brother-sister matings, continuing for several generations.
 
Hi Carol, what is COI for use dog lovers who aren't breeders.
I'm not Carole, but COI is coefficient of inbreeding--it is a calculation of how many common ancestors a dog has (typically in 10 or 12 generations). Here is some more information on COI and what is means from John Armstrong, who did a lot to get the conversation started about genetic diversity in poodles:

Inbreeding
 
I really hope somebody will help :ahhhhh:
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BEST DEAL EVER!!

Pendragon Poodles has an overabundance of dogs! We MUST get these 6 month old puppies sold before considering any further litters.

PLEASE HELP!

We are offering our amazing dogs at the best price ever of ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS for the cinnamon or apricot dog of your choice.

That's a $1200-$1400 SAVINGS! PLEASE HELP US get these puppies to their FUREVER homes as soon as possible! It's URGENT they go home NOW!
 
I really hope somebody will help :ahhhhh:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Extra! Extra!
BEST DEAL EVER!!

Pendragon Poodles has an overabundance of dogs! We MUST get these 6 month old puppies sold before considering any further litters.

PLEASE HELP!

We are offering our amazing dogs at the best price ever of ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS for the cinnamon or apricot dog of your choice.

That's a $1200-$1400 SAVINGS! PLEASE HELP US get these puppies to their FUREVER homes as soon as possible! It's URGENT they go home NOW!

You and me both Wiahpoo
That sort of advertising is deplorable to me v.v
 
Discussion starter · #79 ·
I do not know if they health test. I just know they have healthy dogs. And time has supported that. Please educate me here what is the purpose of health testing and what body does it. Is it for show purposes? Appreciate the answers. I'm smarter now then when I woke up today.

I think the oldest female they had was Igrain and no she was not bred when she was nine. When the females are retired or whatever you call it, they retire to a life of leisure. They're not sold off because they cost money to feed. Same with the males. I've seen their records and they are meticulous in which dogs they breed and when so as to ensure they aren't bred frequently. That is why they have so many dogs. They explained to me one time that for every three times most breeders breed a female they only breed her twice. So if anything they err on the side of less frequent breeding not more.
How do you KNOW they have healthy dogs? Because they told you they do? The health testing breeders do is NOT for show purposes AT ALL!!! It is to do "due diligence" in proving, as much as it possible, that ones breeding stock has good hips, good eyes, a healthy, strong heart, that they will not pass on Von Willebrand's, Degenerative Myelopathy, Neonatal encephalopathy, Sebaceous Adenitis... and are healthy enough to consider breeding at all. One of the biggest contributors of all of these diseases or disorders has been irresponsible breeding. If everyone who bred would test for everything possible, and would research who they are breeding to, and not just breed because they have a fertile male and a fertile female, eventually most of these things could be eradicated in the breed altogether. Not just for Poodles who will be shown, but all Poodles!
 
Discussion starter · #80 · (Edited)
I do not know if they health test. I just know they have healthy dogs. And time has supported that. Please educate me here what is the purpose of health testing and what body does it. Is it for show purposes? Appreciate the answers. I'm smarter now then when I woke up today.

I think the oldest female they had was Igrain and no she was not bred when she was nine. When the females are retired or whatever you call it, they retire to a life of leisure. They're not sold off because they cost money to feed. Same with the males. I've seen their records and they are meticulous in which dogs they breed and when so as to ensure they aren't bred frequently. That is why they have so many dogs. They explained to me one time that for every three times most breeders breed a female they only breed her twice. So if anything they err on the side of less frequent breeding not more.
Not to beat a dead horse, but according to PHR, Ingraine had her sixth litter just shy of her tenth birthday in March 2006. If nothing else Baileysdad, maybe this thread will help you realize you should not take everything at face value or believe everything you are told. http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_descend.pl?id=104965

Her son, Mr. Woofus Fuzzy little Peach, a male who appears to have no health testing himself and little to no testing behind him, has sired 88 puppies all before he was three years old! Is this really okay with you? http://www.phrdatabase.com/cgi_bin/pp_descend.pl?id=95985
 
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