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Discussion Starter #1
I am not starting this thread to beat these people up. I think most people who go onto their web site can see what is going on here, but they must be selling pups like mad. They have whelped a litter of five red/apricot Standards on June 1st, another litter of nine on June 2nd, and another litter of 13 on June 13th!!!! Holy cannoli....that is a lot of litters in less than 2 weeks!!!! They also have six older pups who birthdates go as far back as May 2009.

Their prices are phenomenal too. Their pups range in price from $2,200 for apricot to $2,600 for darker toned which they call cinnamon. This is about $1,000 more than most other breeders are charging for their reds. Unbelievable.

I am posting this with the hope that if anyone who comes here sees this, they will shop around for a breeder who has one or two litters a year, and doesn't charge anywhere near these prices for their red pups.
 

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I don't know anything about breeding Poodles, but I wouldn't have thought that different colours would attract different prices. That seems to be normal with Goldendoodles.

They seem to charge according to the shade of red that the puppies are now. So what happens if you pay more for a red puppy and when it gets older it turns out to be apricot. Do you get a refund?

I suppose people might say I was being nasty if I said the word "puppy farm" came to mind. Did you notice of the older pups, the ones in June and again in December have the same dam. So she had two litters in six months. That is Honey. And Tallulah had a litter in May and again in December.
 

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Well there is one thing that breaks my heart.

The dam for one of the litters is 9 years old :(

I see no listing of health tests or any comments that they do health tests, they mock show dogs to make there home dogs look better.

And they say that they are no offering youngsters for sail for people who don't have the time to raise a puppy.
Is this just something they say to make the dogs that did not get sold look more attractive ? I would never want to sell a person a dog that does not have time for a pup. Does that not just mean that they don't have time for a dog ?

I can not Imagen having 3 litters with 21 pups then add the 6 youngsters who are for sale and the dogs they have now and according to there homepage they are more then 10.

I hope they have staff to help them with all these dogs.

We provide incredible family/companion dogs and our slogan is we believe in "Best in Home...NOT Best in Show."
Well I could go on an on...

Forgot one thing I would never want to buy a pup that has been neuterd/spayed before 8 weeks :S
 

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Purely I don't think its nasty...well some might...

but it does raise the question at what point do breeders like this cross the line and become puppy mills...are they able to say they aren't a puppy mill because they keep all the dogs in their home?
its interesting to say the least
 

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Best in home - not in show. And still charge those random high prices for dogs appearing to have no health testing done.
 

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The reason for people doing the pediatric spay and neuter is because of unscrupulous buyers getting a dog on a non-breeding contract and then breeding it anyway sometimes to a another breed and sometimes just because they are not interested in registering the puppies. Reputable breeders do not want their puppies going to those homes.
 

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They get a lot of publicity. CTV in Canada just aired an episode on them yesterday on a program called 'Breeder of the Pack' or something like that. They called the episode 'poodlemania'.
 

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Seriously, what in the he** is wrong with Canadian TV producers knowing NOTHING about dogs????
First, they air asshat Brad Pattison's piece of junk show, and then they promote breeders like this!!!
BRING BACK STANLEY COREN!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Seriously, what in the he** is wrong with Canadian TV producers knowing NOTHING about dogs????
First, they air asshat Brad Pattison's piece of junk show, and then they promote breeders like this!!!
BRING BACK STANLEY COREN!!!
I sent Animal Planet a letter when the show was first airing telling them they needed to reconsider or I as well as other breeders would boycott their channel. These people get more free ink and publicity than any other breeder I have ever seen. I told the execs at the station that they needed to find soomeone in the business who has been around a long time and health tests, and their reply was that someone at the station purchased a puppy from Pendragon and were THRILLED with the annual Poodle party they throw. Nobody seems to understand that when they are paying at least an additional $1,000 for their pup over what other breeders are charging, they are in essence paying to attend the party, so big whoop!! Animal Planet was not remotely interested in what I was saying, and yesterday's airing of the show is about the 5th time it has aired, so 5 times the publicity.

When I saw it the third time it was aired on CTV, I was terrified for those little pups, born on the leather sofa, camera crew walking all over the house with their shoes on, the people from the party all over the place with their shoes on. No de-contamination is effect at all. So, they use a human incubator, which apparently makes them very special, and let people with their germy shoes all over where the pups are. YIKES!! I just don't get it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I see Heather has joined the forum. It would be nice to get her take on things and maybe hear from her why they have the number of litters they have or why the different prices for different colours of pups?
 

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The Pendragon website has changed since I last looked at it a few hours ago. Date of birth and names of dams have been removed.

I have to admit that I looked closely at this breeder and Paris Poodles 3 years ago when I was looking for a new puppy. What appealed to me then was the idea of a dog that looked sporty and not dainty. Their websites are directed to people who liked the hypo-allergenic properties of poodles but not the 'show dog - frou frou' look. Paris advertises that their dogs are 'real dogs' with big bone structure. I searched and searched the internet to find out more about the breed and read up on what I was suppose to look for in breeders ,etc. As I went through other breeder's websites and looked at their poodles, I began to fall in love with how beautiful the poodles look with all the different groom cuts available in addition to their wonderful traits. I also could not figure out why Paris and Pendragon were charging so much more than other breeders who had beautiful champions and also did all the testing. Anyways, I did not buy from them.

Also, I now LOVE all the beautiful show coats! I just gave Sam the Miami cut (since she is such a clown) and I think she looks beautiful but my kids are aghast and embarassed for her. Sam, despite being silly, just has everyone looking at her (and I think admiring her), as she prances by at the park, beach or trail. I don't have the guts to put Charlie in the same cut because my family will kill me if I do. They did not want a poodle initially because of preconceived prejudices. They now love poodles but cannot tolerate any cut too 'frilly'. Oh well, I just have to go slow and train them to love all the different cuts I am going to try on my poodles!
 

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Huh.... their Executive Puppy program is interesting, but I'm a bit skeptical. Given the number of dogs and litters they have, I wonder how much training they are actually able to put on these dogs. This seems like more of a spin to try to move older puppies that did not previously sell.

Of course I could be wrong. It would be interesting to see a video of these juvenile dogs working to see how far they have come in their training.
 

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Ok i think yes- when a breeder who has a pup or two who hang around a bit longer- you gotta spin it. There are people who can't be home every 3 hours to let a 8 week old pup out but who are good for a slightly older dog.

but yeah ummm it's a lot of puppies. and a lot of not tested.
 

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The Pendragon website has changed since I last looked at it a few hours ago. Date of birth and names of dams have been removed.
That is interesting - that it happened so soon after I pointed it out on here and someone else pointed out that one of the dams was nine years old - suggests that they are reading this forum does it not?

That is a shame because it means that prospective purchasers will be ignorant of those facts. But then again there are people who go into a pet store and buy an unregistrable pug or dachshund puppy for $1,350. Unfortunately there are lots of people who buy puppies just because they are cute! That is the only criteria.

Yes Lotusland -- when I first started looking, I wanted a Standard and Paris was the first website a researched. I actually emailed them but never got a response. Then as I became more educated I went back and realized the same as you, that there was no health testing whatsoever - at least if there is its not mentioned on their web site and you would think if they did it, it would be mentioned.

I am wondering, when you see on a breeder's website that they do health testing, do any of you ask for actual written proof? I think you would have to be careful how you asked, because it seems a bit like you don't trust them.
 

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That is interesting - that it happened so soon after I pointed it out on here and someone else pointed out that one of the dams was nine years old - suggests that they are reading this forum does it not?

That is a shame because it means that prospective purchasers will be ignorant of those facts. But then again there are people who go into a pet store and buy an unregistrable pug or dachshund puppy for $1,350. Unfortunately there are lots of people who buy puppies just because they are cute! That is the only criteria.

Yes Lotusland -- when I first started looking, I wanted a Standard and Paris was the first website a researched. I actually emailed them but never got a response. Then as I became more educated I went back and realized the same as you, that there was no health testing whatsoever - at least if there is its not mentioned on their web site and you would think if they did it, it would be mentioned.

I am wondering, when you see on a breeder's website that they do health testing, do any of you ask for actual written proof? I think you would have to be careful how you asked, because it seems a bit like you don't trust them.
The ad for the litter were the dam is 9 years old is still in but they taken out her birthday from her page. But they do say that her first litter was born in March/03 so she had to be two at the time or if they make the females whelp very young :S
so either way its bad.

they have also removed info from bios of about 10 dogs.

So trust worthy :doh:

I would love to have any of my puppy buyers ask for the papers on my dogs health test for proof. But I scan them in and you can see them on my homepage.
 

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This is the third time that a breeder has changed her web site because this board had questions about breeding practices. (Remember the one that was breeding the dysplastic stud dog?)

It would be funny if it weren't so sad. In an attempt to educate the puppy buying public we are in some ways making it easier for breeders to pull the wool over a buyer's eyes.

The lesson here for any buyer that may be lurking:

1. Ask to see health testing... understand results.
2. Ask the age of the breeding parents... verify via pedigree.
3. Ask about number of litters on the ground at any given time.
 

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God I love the Internet! It turns out that there is video of one of the Penndragon Executive Puppies[/url]
I would never show this video if I was trying to sell this pup :S

It looks really scared. He has his tail down the whole time.
 
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