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....I know. Hmmmm what to do.
 

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Ooooh.. I think I have said before how I like these dogs..

Oooh, and Lola's dam is a half sister/aunty to my Saffy!!

Get one !! :D
 

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Well... the Stud is NE carrier :rolffleyes:. Yes, some puppies will be carriers and some not and NONE effected - but it is something about "breeding carriers" that bothers me on the principal .

BUT - I am idealist LOL.

If I wanted a white, I would go with Unique breeder any day though ;) !
 

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Well... the Stud is NE carrier :rolffleyes:. Yes, some puppies will be carriers and some not and NONE effected - but it is something about "breeding carriers" that bothers me on the principal .

BUT - I am idealist LOL.

If I wanted a white, I would go with Unique breeder any day though ;) !
Hmmm... did not know that about the Stud..
I haven't really looked into this breeder much..

But yes, gotta love Unique!
 

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What's interesting is both breeders have similar Dams/Sires in their lines.
 

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Well... the Stud is NE carrier :rolffleyes:. Yes, some puppies will be carriers and some not and NONE effected - but it is something about "breeding carriers" that bothers me on the principal .

BUT - I am idealist LOL.

If I wanted a white, I would go with Unique breeder any day though ;) !

Lots of the Whites, including the Unique dogs, are NE carriers. If you did not breed them, you would lose some very nice dogs from the gene pool.
 

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Thats all fine and dandy - I am sure there are some "very nice dogs" that are not carriers.

Since, thanks good, I do not intend to show or breed - I can "indulge" in taking a puppy from a litter with no "carriers" ;)
 

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Thats all fine and dandy - I am sure there are some "very nice dogs" that are not carriers.

Since, thanks good, I do not intend to show or breed - I can "indulge" in taking a puppy from a litter with no "carriers" ;)
Absolutely. I'm just saying that when it comes to breeding, you have to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water. With careful testing and breeding, a breeder could eliminate NE from their line in a couple of generations.

I stop at the idea of breeding an Affecteds, though (although NE affected don't live long enough to breed). This simply creates whole litters carriers and I think that is unnecessary.

Along with this, I think all breeders should test for NE and never breed carrier to carrier. I had one breeder tell me that she didn't care if she bred NE Affected puppies since they died early and it didn't affect the end buyer. I thought this was horrible and that it totally discounted the suffering of the affected puppies who died from NE seizures.
 

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"Along with this, I think all breeders should test for NE and never breed carrier to carrier. I had one breeder tell me that she didn't care if she bred NE Affected puppies since they died early and it didn't affect the end buyer. I thought this was horrible and that it totally discounted the suffering of the affected puppies who died from NE seizures."


Yes : (((, I remember vividly when you announced that in one of the threads before : (((. I was shocked beyond the words could describe so I think I did not even make a comment at that time :smow:.

I always think that "I heard it all" , but still discover a terrible breeding practices along the way of my search :smow:

Having such a powerful tool as genetic tasting and not using it for the advantage of all involved is incredibly unethical, IMO.

I still do not think that "just carriers" should be bread unless absolutely necessary for some strange reason - like we have a Stud that is Int Ch and Westminster BIS for 5 years in a row !!! If carrier is bread with non -carrier - some pups will be carriers again. NOW - who is to guarantee that one of those pups will not come into the hands of irresponsible person who will breed it to carrier - I mean , as we can see even show dog person is doing it (in your example), right ??? : ((( Imagine BYB ??? It is so incredibly cruel IMO, so many fantastic dogs out there that are NOT NE carriers - why use the carrier ??? Especially a STUD ????????????????????? Semen can be shipped allll across the other side of the world nowadays .

NO - IMO , it is just "cutting corners" >: [ and "costs" ...
 

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Just to add - NE testing is one that I rarely see done, actually :smow:

So, at least Ormar DID test and posted results :rolffleyes:- I want to give them some credit for that !!!!!

Since the issue "resurfaced" here , I checked some sites and could not believe it ! For example - one breeder is using a "new champion" for breeding this spring although her Stud produced 5 NE carriers IN ONE LITTER( litter of 6) and neither he or the dam are still tested for NE to this day !!!!! At least there is nothing listed at OFA ! "New Ch" has NOTHING listed at OFA O-O ( I mean NONE of the tests ....)!!!!

I guess - they can always say - we "did not know" :fish:
 

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I would LOVE a pup from this litter.

Have to hurry up and do a DNA test on Vaka so I know if she is NE carrier or clear.

I can't take the change of buying a puppy that could be carrier if Vaka is also carrier.

No point in waiting did just order the test now from OFFA
 

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While I can understand your frustration over the NE carrier thing, Wishpoo... there is nothing wrong with breeding an NE carrier to a NE clear. There are SO MANY other issues that are FAR WORSE! DNA tests, like it, help with the decision making... but doesn't mean they cannot be bred.
And perhaps 'they' were tested but did not pay to put it on OFA's website...or their parents were tested and were clear?
Still... with your example, someone was a carrier, obviously. But don't forget, being a carrier is not a death sentence.
When I was on my search for a silver or white Ch stud on the west coast, years ago, very few were NE clear. If they were healthy, with long lived relatives and excellent temperament and sound... why shouldn't they pass on their great traits?
Karen
 

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I agree with cbrand and desertreef.

If we where to stop breeding dogs that where carriers or dogs that produce a disease out of so many puppies. The gene pool would be so small that there would be only a few dogs to breed with.

Breeders just have to breed away from diseases and do health checks.
 

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Well.... that particular breeder KNEW that all puppies were carriers at 8 weeks and probably had a reason to test ALL of them at that age - wouldn't you think ????:fish: Also kept that fact as "hush-hush"(and she did - was asked repeatedly about results and was telling she still do not have them and than they there were on the OFA actually weeks before she claimed she does not have them !!!!!) - again - if that is soo OK to be a carrier , than why she kept it under the rug ???? O-o ???


Yes - as Desertreef said - before the test was available, HUGE number of dogs were carriers, but now it obviously is not the case, since I saw a many that were tested clear . Obviously somebody is doing the right thing and not breeding "anyway" :rolffleyes:

I know that a carrier is not affected with NE, but who is to say that he/she does not have predisposition for some other neurological disorder or even some completely at the first site "unrelated" disorder ??? Genes usually do not control a single trait.

The population of standard poodles is steadily growing and since line breeding became less popular, genetic diversity is bigger than ever . I do not agree that genetic pool would suffer at all !!!!

One can order a semen from Australia and Sweden for example and get fantastic genetic diversity using Int Ch that is not a carrier !!!!! Than why use a carrier that is a so-so dog anyway ???? Ehhh.... You know, some days I get so worked-up about "spoo rights" that I have an urge to become a breeder just to prove that one can have a HEALTHY , non-carrier Champions LMAO

PEACE TO ALL !!!!! :beauty:
 

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Well.... that particular breeder KNEW that all puppies were carriers at 8 weeks and probably had a reason to test ALL of them at that age - wouldn't you think ????:fish: Also kept that fact as "hush-hush"(and she did - was asked repeatedly about results and was telling she still do not have them and than they there were on the OFA actually weeks before she claimed she does not have them !!!!!) - again - if that is soo OK to be a carrier , than why she kept it under the rug ???? O-o ???
Just sounds like a breeder I would not deal with or trust anyways lol You know when I say something I am saying it if as the breeder is being honest.




The population of standard poodles is steadily growing and since line breeding became less popular, genetic diversity is bigger than ever . I do not agree that genetic pool would suffer at all !!!!

It will when you have breeders with the mindset of only breed CH to Ch and the breeders who want to use the top studs and don't limit the stud services on their dogs. I can give you an example of one stud that comes to mind that is making the gene pool smaller for a certain color ;) pm tho shhh lol

One can order a semen from Australia and Sweden for example and get fantastic genetic diversity using Int Ch that is not a carrier !!!!! Than why use a carrier that is a so-so dog anyway ???? Ehhh.... You know, some days I get so worked-up about "spoo rights" that I have an urge to become a breeder just to prove that one can have a HEALTHY , non-carrier Champions LMAO
What I noticed is that most of these import dogs or dogs in other countries are from america lol so the diversity thing can happen and can't happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
:)Sorry......has this jumped to another breeder or are we talking about Ormar in th recent mentions of said breeder? (I got a little lost lol)
 
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