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5K views 35 replies 14 participants last post by  Deere 
#1 ·
Hello everyone!
We are new to the forum, so I’ll start with some info about us before my question 😊
About a week ago we brought home fur baby number 3, (my other two pups are a Great Pyrenees and a Dobie). So this is our first doodle! He is about 11 weeks old and the best little guy ever! He is F1B so mostly poodle. And he is the best little guy ever! Unfortunately We got him from a breeder who was not taking the best care of mom or the other pups😢 (I wish I could have got them all)… anyways he was very skinny and seamed weak and lethargic. They were feeding mom and pups the purple bag of “Diamond” brand puppy. I’ve never heard of that food before but wasn’t a big fan of the ingredients list. So right away we went to petco to find a good nutritious food for him. The problem? There are so many options, but what is going to be the best food for my little guy? I have spent hours researching the best food for a poodle pup and the best food for an Irish setter pup because there aren’t many posts for an actual Irish doodle. I was wondering if there are any other Irish doodle owners that may have some advice. I am reluctant to give him food specifically for a poodle incase the setter side of him has different nutritional needs. So far I have not found any allergies to grains, so I would like to find a food that includes them (only the good ones though, like barley and oats). I also am trying to avoid chicken because my dobie is allergic ( not a necessity though because I can always feed them separately.) I read that poodles do best on a kibble diet, but I am open to any options that have lots of protein. If anyone can help with some info it would be greatly appreciated! Sorry for such a long post, and thank you for reading!

-Gunny the Irish doodle
 
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#2 ·
I don't think the setter in your dog's mix would change guidance about your dog's dietary needs, as they are both large breed dogs. Unless you know already about specific allergies or sensitivities your puppy has, I think a nutritionally appropriate food for a large breed puppy would be fine. You should consult your vet if you are worried about your puppy thriving though!
 
#4 ·
Oona Thank you,

I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds. Also we have had our first vet visit, she wasn’t as concerned as me about his weight, they suggested the Purina one Puppy…I wasn’t sure I liked that recipe either. She said she recommends it for all puppies (but of course I think all pups need different things according to breed) am I wrong here? I know the vet should know best but we are in a very small community and I worry they are not the best .


Oona Thank you,

I forgot to mention both his mom and dad were more moyen sized, about 45 pounds. Also we have had our first vet visit, she wasn’t as concerned as me about his weight, they suggested the Purina one Puppy…I wasn’t sure I liked that recipe either. She said she recommends it for all puppies (but of course I think all pups need different things according to breed) am I wrong here? I know the vet should know best but we are in a very small community and I worry they are not the best .
 
#8 ·
Thank you! This is super helpful! I wondered if a large breed pup food would be acceptable.The fads are what has me confused, there are so many different options for food and I don’t know which way to turn. For now there are no allergies we know of so I guess it is decision time on the new food 😳 it is comforting to know the diamond is on there though. I don’t feel so guilty having him eat it in till I can decide on one. Thank you very much Oonapup!
 
#10 ·
Diamond isn't a horrible food, and lots of dogs do well on it.

My preferred Purina brand is Pro Plan, more specifically the Sensitive Salmon and Rice formula. They make a puppy version of it.
 
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#21 ·
Swimming a bit against the current here...


There's a lot of quality foods out there. Brand names are less important than the proper nutritional balance. Animal nutrition science is about on par with human. You want nutritionally balanced food from a company that employs veterinary nutrition specialists (there's a degree for that, DVM first then DACVN or may be others ending in ...CVN) to develop the proper nutritional balance for size, life stage, and special needs.

What is Large Breed Puppy Food – Puppy Food for Large Breed Dogs | PetMD
Puppies that are going to grow up to be big dogs are predisposed to developmental orthopedic diseases (DOD) like osteochondritis dissecans and hip and elbow dysplasia. Nutrition, or to be precise, over-nutrition, is an important risk factor of DOD.
www.petmd.com

Why you shouldn’t judge a pet food by its ingredient list – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)

With the larger breeds you want to avoid growing too quickly by overfeeding and keep the proper full nutritional balance between protein, fat, calcium/phosphorus ratio for appropriate orthopedic growth support, and other nutrients.

You also want to look for foods with the AAFCO label. They are the entity that develop the minimum feed guidelines and work with the FDA in the US.

AFCO considers over 70lb to be "large breed" so their calculations are based on that.
Most dog food companies seem to be choosing 50lb as a conservative number.
Confused About What to Feed Your Large Breed Puppy? New Rules May Help! – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)


Examples of one brand's large breed vs regular puppy Guaranteed Analysis from the website

Large Breed
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Not Less Than 30.00%
Crude Fat Not Less Than 12.00%
Crude Fiber Not More Than 6.00%

Moisture Not More Than 10.00%
Calcium Not Less Than 1.10%
Phosphorus Not Less Than 0.80%

Vitamin A Not Less Than 25,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E Not Less Than 200 IU/kg
Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C)* Not Less Than 100 mg/kg
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 2.75%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 0.75%
Glucosamine* Not Less Than 750 mg/kg
Chondroitin Sulfate* Not Less Than 250 mg/kg
Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%

Total Lactic Acid Microorganisms* Not Less Than 20,000,000 CFU/lb

Large Breed
Feeding Guidelines

WEIGHT OF DOG (LBS)WEIGHT OF DOG (KG)CUPS/DAYGRAMS/DAY
50 - 6023 - 272¾ - 3319 - 348
60 - 7027 - 323 - 3½348 - 406
70 - 8032 - 363½ - 3¾406 - 435
80 - 9036 - 413¾ - 4¼435 - 493
90 -10041 - 454¼ - 4½493 - 522
100 - 11045 - 504½ - 5522 - 580
110 - 12050 - 555 - 5¼580 - 609
120 - 14055 - 645¼ - 5¾609 - 667
140 - 16064 - 735¾ - 6½667 - 754
160 - 18073 - 826½ - 7754 - 812

Calorie Content: This food contains 3,464 kcal/kg or 402 kcal/cup ME (metabolizable energy) on an as fed basis.


Regular puppy food feeding guidelines and calorie count. You'll notice that the upper weight expected is 50lbs for regular puppy and total daily calorie count (this total count is assuming that this food is all that is fed daily. If you're offering snacks and/or treats, adjust accordingly).

"Regular" Puppy
Guaranteed Analysis
Crude Protein Not Less Than 32.00%
Crude Fat Not Less Than 18.00%
Crude Fiber Not More Than 5.50%

Moisture Not More Than 10.00%
Docosahexaenoic Acid (DHA) Not Less Than 0.10%
Calcium Not Less Than 1.20%
Phosphorus Not Less Than 1.00%

Vitamin A Not Less Than 25,000 IU/kg
Vitamin E Not Less Than 200 IU/kg
Omega-6 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 4.00%
Omega-3 Fatty Acids* Not Less Than 1.00%
Taurine* Not Less Than 0.09%
Total Lactic Acid Microorganisms* Not Less Than 20,000,000 CFU/lb

WEIGHTWEIGHT6 - 12 WKS6 - 12 WKS4 - 6 MOS4 - 6 MOS7 - 9 MOS7 - 9 MOS10 - 12 MOS10 - 12 MOS
(LBS)(KG)(CUPS/DAY)(GRAMS/DAY)(CUPS/DAY)(GRAMS/DAY)(CUPS/DAY)(GRAMS/DAY)(CUPS/DAY)(GRAMS/DAY))
31.4¾9886½6543
521130¼9886½65
1041⅔2161951631130
15729322601⅔216163
2093583252260228
30144884233582⅓303
40184⅔60645204553390
5023--618553455

Calorie Content: This food contains 3,770 kcal/kg or 490 kcal/cup ME (metabolizable energy) on an as fed basis.


Possible concerns re diet associated DCM

Posted by PF member Liz
(10) Canine Dilated Cardiomyopathy Linked to Pulses in Grain-Free Foods | Poodle Forum
Some current info on DCM
Diet-Associated DCM: Research Update – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)

This is a good overall resource
Petfoodology – Clinical Nutrition Service at Cummings School (tufts.edu)

I've grabbed articles from here in the past but never thought to link to the full resource til PF member TeamHellhound suggested it in another thread. Each article is brief so scroll thru for what interests you.

And, I feed Purina Pro Plan :)
 
#22 ·
Rose,
Thank you so much for all of this info. Do you think he would be better off with a regular food or is the large breed the way to go in your opinion? Thank you! I have been looking at the Purina Pro Plan puppy - sensitive skin and stomach (lamb and oatmeal) and also the Purina Pro Plan development sensitive skin and stomach large breed (salmon and rice). I can’t decide which of the two would be better for him. I just know I like the ingredients of them both 😳
Thank you again for all the help!
 
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