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Very scary morning for me.. looking for some advice before I think about taking Norman to the vet??

this is a long rant but I want to give full detail in case I missed something...

After feeding the 3 dogs and giving their multivitamins + joint support pills, Norman started acting odd. All 3 dogs normally wait for me to give them a milk-bone and then run into the living room seeing who can get the best spot for morning naps.
I was about to starting giving out the bones when I noticed Norman sitting in the corner of the kitchen, crouched, with his head turned and looking at the wall. Immediately my heart jumped just knowing this was not right. He usually is the most happy to receive a bone first every morning without fail!!

I ran over to him and just started checking everything I could think of. Heart rate, breathing rate, body, stomach, mouth, etc. He had very light and quick breathing. While I am sitting there petting him, I am talking to him asking if hes ok and telling him everything is going to be ok. But he still was turning his head not looking at me (not normal). He wasn't moving at all, no tail movement.

I immediately think "Ok is he choking?? Stroke? Gas pains? Throw up?" and I just didn't know what to do. I got him to walk to the water and he was turned sideways/crooked as we walked... He drank one sip and sat down crooked again.
This time I am extremely worried. Again I went through checking him. Touching his legs, paws, stomach, breathing, heart rate. He then put his head on my shoulder and stayed there for a moment. This made me think he was in some kind of pain potentially, maybe gas pains or???

Seconds later he is up and shakes his body (as if its wet) and goes running to see the other two dogs and waiting on a bone! He was excited, happy, and it was like nothing happened??

Of course I will be calling the vet, but I am not sure how they will look into this? It all happened in like a 2 minute window but felt like forever to me... Blood work is not an option btw. Norman is very reluctant on them taking blood (screaming in fear) and the vet has insisted that they wait until he gets neutered for them to get a sample while he's sleeping. I wish he was ok with it, but he has a very hard time allowing strangers to hold him still, especially if I am not in the room he panics. Vet will not allow me to hold him.

Have y'all every had a dog experience pains and make these body movements? Gas pains? Or seen them turn their bodies when sitting/walking?? Obviously this is not normal, but unsure if these are symptoms of anything??

I will be going home at lunch today to check on him and spend some time with him. If y'all have any encouraging words or advice I would be happy to know! Just looking to see if y'all think this is a symptom of anything y'all are familiar with that I can ask the vet about??

Will be calling this afternoon on the way home.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Talked to vet and he had a mini seizure from the symptoms. Very hard news to hear
 

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Samie, did you see my post on Maizie's mini seizure? Check out the video I posted. The seizure he had reminds me of the first one Maizie had in June, 2018. She was staggering like she was drunk, falling sideways, but I was so shocked, I didn't get that one on video. It is so scary. I'm really sorry you are going through this with Norman too :(

Is he on any flea medications?
 

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Yes I did and his was not as intense but similar I would say. He wasn't panting but we was breathing short and fast through his nose.
The vet said I needed to get it on video but like you said, it was just a moment of shock and panic for me! Getting my phone to record never crossed my mind.. I was just thinking of being there for Norman. He was not falling over as you describe for Maizie, but for sure not walking properly and crooked.

Thank you for the kind words I am also sorry for you to deal with it.

Yes he is on a flea med called Simperica. After you asked me this, I looked it up and his flea meds is on this list
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-flea-and-tick-treatments-increase-the-risk-of-seizures-in-pets-fda-warns/
Could this be it? How terrifying to think I caused this....
 

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Poor Norman! Poor you! That sounds very scary ?

We had a few similar episodes with Gracie, but she was a senior and the vet determined it was her teeth the first time, and pain from spinal damage each subsequent time. When it was her teeth, she looked drunk for a minute, swaying and walking funny. With her spine she just shook and alternated between staring and wanting comfort. It was heart-wrenching.

Hoping the seizure was a one-off and Norman's back to his normal self soon. Will be interested to hear if it is in fact linked to that flea med. I've never used flea control with any of my dogs, but we'd like the option to board Peggy at an excellent local facility which requires it.
 

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so sorry that you and Norman have to deal with this. I don't have a cell phone so video taping would be a major problem for me. I guess the video would have given the vet a better idea of Norman's behavior.

Sending ((HUGS)) your way, along with keeping y'all on my prayer list.
 

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How scary. If it is a side effect of the medication the easy fix is to stop the medication and hopefully you鈥檒l never see another seizure.

If I ever see any odd behavior from my pets I will remember MaizieFrosty鈥檚 video of Maizie and will try to grab my phone or iPad to video record.
 

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It's scary, but not uncommon in poodles. My Magnum had seizures, as did one of my rescue Bostons. Magnum was put on phenobarbital, but not until the seizures increased and got worse.

A first seizure can be so mild that you don't even know something happened. Over time, they get worse. But, if it is from epilepsy there is medication.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Thank you everyone for the kind words and the hugs!!

Norman is acting completely normal. He has only been on Simperica for 2-3 months now. I am not sure if that is what caused it, but either way I am looking into a new med for him (too afraid to risk it). I am very cautious about all of my animals, so I am going to talk to vet about some alternatives.

I will say that Norman has been extra clingy to me, not sure if related?? But he seems to be extra sensitive to me leaving the room without him or him being outside of the bathroom without me. He will cry if he doesn't get to stay in the bathroom with me, which isn't that odd but for him its peculiar to see how more demanding that he is to be with me.
For example, he is a cage sleeper.... but for the past week he will not sleep in his cage, only my bed!! Wondering if its linked of he had a seizure and I wasn't around to see it? He has never slept a full night in my bed ever until recently...

Not sure.. Either way he is completely fine otherwise and if anything is extra happy! I got him a water toy that he is loving on these hot summer days!!

Thank you again for the thoughts, prayers, and hugs!! It is needed... Yesterday was very hard... After checking on Norman, driving back to work, I hit a baby deer. I just cried and cried. I couldn't stop in time, my car breaks locked up too.. I also found out I may have to have hip surgery!
So Monday was a rough one. I just hope and pray my Norman is ok because he is my life line. Couldn't imagine life without him, especially if I need medical attention. Not to mention I am only 22 so it is a lot to take in.

Thank you all for being so kind
 

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SamieNorman, when it rains, it sure pours!!! My goodness. I'm sorry. I do think our dogs (poodles especially) know when we're stressed or worried and that can cause them to cling, too. You're worrying about Norman and he's worrying about you!

Hoping tomorrow's better and the next day's even BETTER.

Let us know what you learn about safe flea treatments.
 

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Oh Samie, what an awful day you had! :'( ((((((Hugs)))))))))) We are here for you!

You are so mature, I never would have guessed you are only 22. But I definitely remember how emotional those years are. Fortunately, things get easier to deal with with age.
 

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Oh my, not a good day. (((Hugs Hugs))j).
 
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Hip surgery? I hope it's not that bad. Go easy for a long time so the injury doesn't catch up with you when you get old.

I read your link about certain flea meds and how some cause seizures in dogs. Now that Norman won't be on that or similar brands anymore, when it works it's way out his system, hopefully he'll be fine. Best wishes.
 

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Thank you everyone for being so kind! (((HUGS!!!))) And LOL, yes I have heard I am mature for my age, and "old soul" which I appreciate! I know there are MANY stigmas about my generation... I would agree after going through college! ;)

But yesterday was a much better day. Thank you all again for your kindness!!

I will let y'all know if I find a good flea treatment... Right now I am a bit gun-shy on selecting one because the reviews say it is good. Trying to look into more studies done. It is difficult because the most popular brands are the ones I see cause issues???

Talked to Norman's breeder and she confirmed that Norman's parents do NOT have any epilepsy/seizures and sent me more DNA results to confirm. So I am now feeling much better that it is not hereditary.

Wondering more and more if it was the flea and tick med?? Hoping that it was, only to know it will not happen again! If it was not, we will take this one day at a time! I have been researching nonstop on this topic since Monday. He showed no signs of anxiety, stress, over heated (it was 6 am and low 70s), etc. These things, as you all know, are just electric streams firing in their brains. So I am thinking that if it was just a small, minor one, it is a better sign... hopefully!! But after seeing him look "confused" and "dazed" I now wonder if that was "post seizure" and I missed it when it really happened.
Thank you again everyone :)
 

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It's always alarming and scary when they have seizures. It can be quite upsetting even though we know one here and one there isn't necessarily anything much to worry about. It's when they start happening repeatedly and often that it might mean something to be concerned about. But that confused state is the post ictal stage and it's alarming too, isn't it. I'm glad he's back to his old self and is okay now.

You've had a rough day. Here's to hoping it's smooth sailing for quite some time now.
 
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Yes to flea and tick meds (and other strong meds) causing seizures !! So sad.

My Spoo had seizures, first noticed with Frontline, which caused severe seizures a few days later. The vet assured me it could not be that. However there were so many pet owners that had experienced this that a suit was eventually filed.

I actually refused to go on a trip to Costa Rica because the year I was to go they had started requiring that Frontline be applied before entering the country.

I have become more and more leery of vaccines and medications and their side effects. Going the prevention way is my motto. I feed organic and raw, and my spoo, without flea and tick meds does not get ticks like the neighborhood dogs do that actually use flea and tick preventive meds.
 
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