[KalaMama]

Hi all. Let me see if I have this correct. In order to win points you have to have either best in breed, best in opposite, best in group and/or best in show. The number of points you get depends on your state and the number of dogs competing? What if your dog is the only one of that breed in the whole show? He/she could not win a point unless they were to go on to best of group and win that ,correct? But, as long as there is at least one other of that breed, then the winner of the 2 will get at least 1 point??

 

[AgilityIG]

In order to get points in AKC, you need to be winners bitch or winners dog. If, however, you are the only one of your breed and you happen to go on to win a group, you can get points that way, but it is not common. If you are the only class dog/bitch and there are specials showing (in your breed) and you get BOB, you can get points that way too.

 

[markfsanderson]

Points and other confusing things . . .

KalaMama,
I'm assuming you are talking about Championship points in AKC breed competition. With that in mind . . .

1. Championship points are awared to the "Winners <Sex>", where <Sex> is either Bitches or Dogs.
2. At an absolute minimum, there must be one other dog to beat in order to be awarded Ch. points. Points and numbers are published each year (May, I believe) and can be found on the AKC.org website. Each part of the country has specific number for breeds, dogs, and bitches that are required for a specific number of points. These points required are based on the number litters for that breed/variety in that area. 1,2 points are 'minor' points. 3,4 and 5 points are considered 'major' points. A dog must have 15 points of which a minimum of 6 points must be major points (two three point majors for example). Those two major wins must be under two different judges.
3. If you dog also is awarded Best of Variety/Breed, then s/he will win the greater of the awarded points. For example, your dog wins 2 points as the Winners Dog, but he goes Best of Breed (represents your breed or variety in Group competition) and there was a 5 point major in Bitches - then your dog is awarded a 5 point major as well.
4. Special/Breed points are awarded to the Special (already a champion) that beats other dogs during the breed competition. Ex: Your dog (a champion) is BOB and has beaten 25 other dogs in your breed - he gets 25 points awarded.
5. So it goes something like this Classes -> Winners <Sex> -> Best of Breed/Variety -> Group -> BIS.
   • Classes are like the puppy, open, am bred and etc.
   • Best of Breed is where both Winners <Sex> and all the specials (already have a Championship) compete.
   • In the Best of Breed, the following awards are given 'Best of Winners', 'Best of Opposites' and 'Best of Variety/Breed'. The first one is obvious - whichever is the best of the two winners.
   • The Best of Breed/Variety is awarded to the dog that goes on to represent the breed in the Group Competition
   • The Best of Opposite is the awarded to the dog of the opposite sex that is awarded BOB/BOV.
   • There are seven groups Non-Sporting, Terriers, Working, Toy, Sporting, Hounds, and Herding. Min/Std Poodles are in the Non-sporting, Toys are in Toy.
   • A Group 1-4 is awarded, and Group 1 proceeds to Best in Show, and then BIS awarded to one of those 7 dogs.
   • Breed points are awarded based on the total number of dogs beaten - that gets kind of confusing and I'm not to sure of the precise definition of that. But from what I understand, for example your dog gets a group 4, then it beats all the dogs in that group all the way down to the classes except for those dogs (and the ones they beat) that are placed higher than your dog (1,2 and 3)

It's rather confusing, but with time it will be more clear . . .

Mark, Jamie and Poodle Gangsters!

 

[KalaMama]

[
[*]There are seven groups Non-Sporting, Terriers, Working, Toy, Sporting, Hounds, and Herding. Min/Std Poodles are in the Non-sporting, Toys are in Toy.
[*]A Group 1-4 is awarded, and Group 1 proceeds to Best in Show, and then BIS awarded to one of those 7 dogs.
[*]Breed points are awarded based on the total number of dogs beaten - that gets kind of confusing and I'm not to sure of the precise definition of that. But from what I understand, for example your dog gets a group 4, then it beats all the dogs in that group all the way down to the classes except for those dogs (and the ones they beat) that are placed higher than your dog (1,2 and 3)
[/LIST]

[/LIST]
It's rather confusing, but with time it will be more clear . . .

Mark, Jamie and Poodle Gangsters![/QUOTE]

Thank you that makes perfect sense. I do have a question about the groups. If there are 7 groups, then why is there always a Group 1-4- why aren't there Groups 1-7?

 

[bigredpoodle]

You will need to find out your region . Then you will know how many Bitches or dogs it takes for a major . In AKC you need two majors .. Getting them by going group would really be the hard way..
http://www.akc.org/events/conformation/counting_points.cfm

 

[bigredpoodle]

Here is your region and point schedule http://www.akc.org/pdfs/events/conformation/point_schedule/2009/division11.pdf

 

[markfsanderson]

KalaMama,
YOu'll hear people say "I won a group 3" . . that means that in their group (sporting, terrier, whatever) they won 3rd place. There are 4 ribbons given (just getting there is an honor) - only a 'Group 1' will get you to the BIS. At the show, in the group ring, it will display the group title (toy, terrier, working, etc) and placards with the number 1,2,3,4. This where the dogs awarded the prizes stand for a moment to photographed and show the world they won!

Mark, Jamie and the Poodle Gangsters

 

[KalaMama]

KalaMama,
YOu'll hear people say "I won a group 3" . . that means that in their group (sporting, terrier, whatever) they won 3rd place. There are 4 ribbons given (just getting there is an honor) - only a 'Group 1' will get you to the BIS. At the show, in the group ring, it will display the group title (toy, terrier, working, etc) and placards with the number 1,2,3,4. This where the dogs awarded the prizes stand for a moment to photographed and show the world they won!

Mark, Jamie and the Poodle Gangsters

Oh okay, I see. I always wondered why there were only 4 groups when there were seven. Groups = the 7 types of dog breeds OR Groups=the top 4 places.

Thank you!

 

[jester's mom]

Oh okay, I see. I always wondered why there were only 4 groups when there were seven. Groups = the 7 types of dog breeds OR Groups=the top 4 places.

Thank you!

Yep, two different references to "group". Because all the dogs in the "group" class.. let's say the non-sporting group (gotta go with the poodle's group..lol)... are of different breeds, the placements are called Group 1, Group 2, Group 3 & Group 4, instead of the normal 1st, 2nd, 3rd & 4th placement in the breed classes.

 

[markfsanderson]

Of groups, groups and points . . .

Oh, one other thing . . . rather obscure but has been done. If your poodle class dog(pre-champion) Wins BOV (wow) and the Group 1 (super-wow) your dog will get the maximum points awarded for any breed in your group. For instance, if s/he wins a group 1, and your BOV only awarded you a 3 point major, but the Shar-Peis were awarded a 5 point major - you get those 5 points instead of those measly 3 points that you were originally awarded. Kind of cool, doesn't happen very often.
Also, I implied in my original post in this thread that the BOV would get both the 2 and 5 points - s/he won't. s/he will get the greater of the two awarded points -5-. I tried correcting that and ran into a 500 minute max edit time for my post!

Just remember, the judge is under no requirement that s/he award any ribbon - period. I've known of cases where judges awarded only a red ribbon and lower in the classes, and did not allow those dogs to compete for the Winners <Sex>! In my case, the judge was under no requirement to award Louis the BOV and allow him to represent the breed in Groups. It doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. Remember, unlike in UKC and I believe the FCI (Europe), AKC conformation dogs do NOT compete against each other - they are compared to a written ideal (standard) and the closest to that standard is the best. Sometimes you will see people use 'confirmation'. It's not confirmation - dogs are inspected to see if they conform to the written standard in conformation shows. Conformation dog shows (breed shows) sole purpose (other than fun) are to judge whether a dog/bitch should be bred by having disinterested knowledgeable third parties make a determination to that effect. It's an imperfect system fraught with politics and BS(as do all other human endeavors), but it seems to work suprisingly well.


Mark, Jamie and Poodle Gangsters!

 

[KalaMama]

Thanks everyone.