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Now I eat my words, and what now?!

2456 Views 39 Replies 14 Participants Last post by  kontiki
I recently posted on the thread about loose dogs about how wonderful my town is with what sounded like a lovely, peaceful coexistence with a multitude of wildlife. “Oh the bears run the other way, I never see the cougars, we don’t have any official off leash areas so we’re just in wilderness all the time...blah blah blah!”
Now I am still freaked out because Sage maybe almost went off to play with a pack of coyotes:( We were just doing an after work hike on the same trail that all the dog walkers use in the day. It’s definitely bear area so I was making lots of noise and staying alert. Sage was off leash as usual (cringe - I know!).
We were just at the end of the trail where it widens to gravel road and is around the corner from a busy subdivision when up the old logging road to the left I see:
“Oh look, another dog!” Classic - of course it was “just” a coyote, and Sage was absolutely fixated on it. I looked for its buddies and sure enough there are 2 more but they were heading up the road and towards the bush, and they were huge... very healthy looking.
So the smaller one and Sage are staring at each other and I kid you not —“she” does a play bow and starts dancing around.
So much for Sage’s recall. He didn’t go any closer to the coyote, but he was completely focussed. He was also completely ignoring me so I started to panic and I was trying to sound big and loud and scare the coyotes away.
I had to throw his poo bag at him to get his attention and then I got him but I was soooo mad!
I didn’t expect to be mad, but I was mad at the coyote for engaging him, at him for not listening to me, and at me for thinking his recall was good enough. I just quickly walked him on leash to the car and all was well.
Anyways, now I will probably see a wolf or bear at every corner.
Any chance can still teach some sort of emergency recall to a 3 1/2 year old? How do you convey the urgency without confusing or scaring them? :afraid:
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Just today I was reading NextDoor neighborhood blog and at least five people in the area right across the road from me in El Granada Ca reported incidents of a coyote family in living in a Eucalyptus woods coming out and attacking dogs, cats and even people.
If the dog was small they just took it. Big dogs were approached with play bows in just the way you described. A poor little black and white cat was in the mouth of one, already dead.
Scary!


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You can certainly still teach an emergency recall - there are several threads detailing how to do it. You make me very glad that I live in a country with very, very few large predators!
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You definitely can teach a 3.5 yo dog an emergency recall - and I would because you never know when you might need it.

Personally I'd keep my dog on a leash when walking.
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I have congratulated myself prematurely on Buck’s recall. He will not come when he is in a red zone with an opossum in our yard. The one time, I saw a real threat in the yard, a neighbor’s Rottweiler that had managed to follow a car through the gate, he came immediately. Do I trust him 100% at 4 years old? Nope. I work on recall every day. He would be on a leash anywhere outside our gate.
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wow that was very scary. I am glad all turned out well.
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My parents live in the city and they have seen coyotes on their street at night. We have smaller dogs, but even if we had larger ones, we would never, ever let our dogs out without their leashes on unless our dogs were in the fenced in backyard....and we won't even do that at night because there isn't much lighting in the backyard. Even if your dog has strong recall skills, I would skill suggest leashing your dog unless you are in an enclosed area.
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Coyotes acting like play mates to lure dogs into danger has been happening for decades in areas of upstate New York.


These kinds of circumstances are potent reminders that only dogs with super 100% rock solid reliable recalls should be off leash. I can call Lily off a loose and running cat, but not my boys. Even with Lily's reliability I still do not take her out off leash though. We have leash laws in our area.
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Dogs4Life, DH put motion detecting lights on some of the trees around the yard. That helps along with my flashlight to prevent me from tripping over roots etc. in the early AM and for last call. A black dog in the dark is sometimes hard to keep track of.
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Mfmst we also have a twin spotlight on a motion sensor in our fenced backyard. I couldn't live without it. I can keep track of Lily and Javelin and avoid killing myself tripping over steps and such.
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Poppy does not have a rock solid recall when dealing with wildlife or someone SUPER SPECIAL, like my 88 yr old neighbor Jeanette. She is also very strong.

Coyotes can be dangerous, but even bunnies can be dangerous too!

Our yard is not fenced, patio homes so no fencing between. We live about 1/2 a block frrom one of the busiest roads in town. Poppy is ALWAYS LEASHED when outside at home.

Yesterday I was putting her out on her long tie out line, with her gentle leader attached, a bunny came around the corner....all bets were off. Poppy ran, jerking the 25' line, wrapping the line around my big toe and pulling me to the ground. She pulled the line out of my hands despite my death grip. I got up and she was gone. I ran through the yards towards our busy street, running between the giant spruce trees and out to the front. Yelling all the way. A neighbor in the cul de sac pointed in the opposite direction and said there she is, by your house. I ran back and got 2 doors away when Jeanette came outside. Poppy ran directly to Jeanette, her favorite person in the universe.

It took a half an hour for my heart to stop pounding. Poppy enjoyed the run and The magical Dr. Gil, my chiropractor, worked on me.

Life is never dull for me and Poppy.

When I fell I had the presence of mind to curl up and roll, rather than risk further damaging my shoulders by catching myself with my arms. I narrowly avoided slamming into the concrete patio and landed in grass. My mid back is sore, my neck is sore, my big toe is sore and the arch of my foot is strained. It could have been so much worse....and worst of all, Poppy could have been in serious danger had she reached the road.

I do not walk her in the neighborhood in the evening because I can not control her when bunnies appear.....even though she has a gentle leader on. I can not risk further injuries to my neck and shoulder.

Poppy walks on loose lead EVERYWHERE, unless bunnies are involved. I shudder to think what would happen with coyotes or bear. We have many of those here.

We go in the car to a park with trails where I can walk her without fear of bunnies. She is calm and on a loose leash. With coyotes, who are very very wylie and very dangerous, she would view them as playmates. Coyotes here are bold and unafraid. They WILL approach people and pets even when they are on leash.

We are back in training for reactivity on leash....her safety and mine are at risk.

I have a new " hook up to the tie out line" proceedured at home, to keep both of us safe. I am very fortunate to have not broken body parts.

Also fortunate that the "crazy one", Poppy, is none the worse for her escapade.

Dr. Gil, as usual, has me on the mend too.

Jen and Sage, I hope you take walks on leash in the future and stay very very safe. Coyotes are not to be messed with.

Stay safe out there, everyone!

A previous coyote thread had me thinking I would have to make a spiked outfit for Francis, the little boston terrier, who lives with Click and her family. I even looked up an image to copy. I do leather work, so it would not be a complicated task to make this. For everyones' ammusement, here is that protective garment.

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Sorry for going totally off topic but, VQ I wish I had connected your previous mentions on doing leather work before I ordered Javelin's utility articles. It would have been super special to me if they were done by you.

I am sorry Poppy gave you such a scare, glad you are both safe and sound.
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So scary! Have you thought about using a long line or a retractable leash? That would let you give Sage more freedom without going leash-less.

And yeah, you can teach a 3-year-old dog pretty much anything. I once knew someone who trained emergency recall using a really loud whistle. They just taught it by giving their dog a jackpot reward every time they blew the whistle. So they always had this whistle around their neck when they were with the dog, and at random times they'd blow the whistle and then give the dog a bunch of his favorite treat. After a while that dog would BOOK IT when he heard that whistle.

With really high-drive dogs, though, a recall doesn't always work unless you catch them before they have a chance to react, no matter how well you've trained it. So it's best to pair it with training your dog to always stay within a certain distance or line of sight that allows you to spot critters before he does.

I also knew a woman with hunting dogs once who used a shock collar as an emergency backup. She'd lost a previous dog because it chased a deer into a road and got hit by a car. So after that, all her dogs wore shock collars when working in the field. If they blew recall, she could give them a strong shock that would shake them away from anything dangerous. She still did a ton of recall training, but it was peace of mind for her since the dogs had to be off-leash in order to do their work. I'm not a big fan of shock training, but I get it in a situation like that.
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lisasgirl, even Ian Dunbar thinks it is acceptable to use a shock collar if the situation is a life or death one for the dog.
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I’m glad you rounded up Poppy and have your friend Gil, VQ. Reminded me of the recent thread, “My Dog Tried to Kill Me”. I got very frustrated with the long line in the yard. It almosted needed two people to get it set.

I would use a sturdy 10’ leather lead on a trail. In lions, tiger and bear country, I don’t know if I would even have the courage to be on the trail, alone with Buck. Maybe a walking friend, with or without a dog? Safety in numbers. You can’t outrun a poodle. I know the agony of hours (SO lucky!) canvassing and searching for a lost dog, my late Scottie, that had nine lives and used every one. Be safe.
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I practiced my emergency recall in a high pitched terrified voice, because I knew Noelle and Francis might not recognize my voice in an emergency. To train an emergency recall, get a super treat, leftover meat chunks work well for this. Call your dog using a different cue than come. I use Come NOW! They hear that, think meat chunks, and spin around. I keep my dogs on leashes, but in case they escape the yard, that's my emergency cue.

In an area with wildlife, use a long line, or even a long piece of clothesline with knots in it at various intervals so you can step on it in an emergency.
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Oh, and I will show the spiked leather suit to my husband to see if he thinks he wants one for Dear Francis. Thank you! We haven't seen coyotes around lately, thank goodness.
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Just reading this thread stirred up my anxieties! :afraid:

What about Bear Repellent or Stun Gun Batons or tasers if a loose dog/coyote/bear or even a criminal trying to steal your dog gets too close or you have to intervene to save your dog?

I see some here:

https://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/self-defense-stun-guns-dog-repelling-stun-guns-sub=166

https://www.tbotech.com/animal-repellents.htm

Viking Queen: I love that leather harness with spikes! It looks like it gives some neck protection, which the aggressive dogs go after in a grab & shake. It looks ideal for toy and mini breeds.
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Oh, and I will show the spiked leather suit to my husband to see if he thinks he wants one for Dear Francis. Thank you! We haven't seen coyotes around lately, thank goodness.
While the spiked suit would provide some protection, I really think a determined coyote would get it's prey any way. The back end of the dog is still vulnerable, as is the belly. On a Standard poodle facebook page there was a horrific story about a Spoo who went into the woods behind his house and did not come out. His Mom found him a few minutes later and carried him to the house. His hind quarters and groin had been torn apart by coyotes. He had several surguries and a very talented Veterinarian who put him back together. They had even torn his thigh muscles right off the bones so that had to be reattached as well as internal belly injuries needed repairing. They work as a pack to disable their victim and it was horrible. Kahne is fortunate to have survived...his Mom, thankfully, is a nurse for humans so was great with his after care and hime care. It was a sobering story to follow. I do think the spiked suit would be protection from other dogs of similar size attacking but do doubt that it would do much for a coyote attack. It sure is cute in a goth sort of way. Technically not difficult to make, but time consuming due to the sheer number of spikes and spots.
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I haven’t heard of coyotes taking little ones yet, but there was a wolf taking a little dog last year, and about 6 years ago a cougar got a little on-leash dog (but that was unusual...)
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