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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone! I have two spoiled rotten poodles named Feisty and Lilbit. Lilbit is an 11 year old silver miniature and Feisty is a blonde 5 year old Tiny Toy. I love these two so much that I am thinking about a getting a breeding pair so I can share the love. Any advice ?


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Yes, advice. It's lovely and important to them and to the breed to love them. But to turn into a backyard greeder and pump them out? Nope. That does not reflect the respect required for our beloved breed.

You're already in the exact right spot. Keep on keeping on, and maybe begin looking into what performance challenges you can adopt with your girls, especially Feisty :). Steady as she goes :) :) :), and nice work with that.
 

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Here’s what I was looking for in a breeder when searching for my perfect pet, now my 3 year old standard, beloved companion and plays at agility and other canine performance activities:

- fully health tested parents (recommended tests differ by size); test results recorded on OFA web site;
- parents proven in the show ring and conformationally correct; good structure is important in the agility ring;
- small scale breeder, no more than a few litters a year; raising a litter is a lot of work and should receive at least 9 weeks of the breeder’s attention (for a spoo, longer for toys);
- home-raised puppies who are exposed to normal sights and sounds of family life; methods such as puppy culture are a plus;
- low vaccine protocol;
- continued support of the breeder throughout the puppy’s life;
- puppy placement by the breeder based on potential owners’ needs and the unique personality of each puppy, rather than ‘first come first served’; and,
- transparent in every aspect of breeding.

I’d consider your breeding program if you can meet these requirements. Good luck!
 

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Welcome to PF to you and your girls. I hope you will seriously study the threads about breeding before you decide to dive in.


Here is what I think a good breeder does/will do:
1. Go to dog shows of all types to see the work involved in proving your dogs' worthiness to breed;
2. Find a mentor and listen carefully to their advise;
3. Get involved in appropriate dog sports with your potential breeding stock (which doesn't have to be a "breeding pair," honestly that term is making the hair stand up on the back of my neck);
4. Get appropriate health testing done; and

5. Breed only if you really have worthy stock.


I do a lot of dog sports. My boy Javelin is related to Ale Kai Mikimoto on Fifth (grandfather) and a very well built smart poodle, but I would never dream of breeding even if he had an open registration. It is a lot of hard work and can come with lots of heart ache and frustration. I have a friend who is a very good breeder of CKCS. Most of her puppies go to performance sports homes. She shows in conformation, agility, obedience and rally. She has had tremendous success, however this past spring/early summer she lost one pup in the first couple of days after whelping from one litter and had a puppy returned by a person who turned out to have some psychological challenges. She then spent about a month of anxiety involved in finding a new home for the pup. I know someone else who breeds border collies. She still has two dogs from her last litter and notice I said dogs, not puppies. She couldn't find suitable homes and now has two nearly two year old dogs on her hands that she really didn't want. Are you prepared to deal with these kinds of scenarios? I know I am not.
 

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Question if someone is looking for a dog no intention of showing or agility and the breed has all health testings, and uses good breeding stock to start with, why those requirements. I just always wanted a cuddle bug, no showing and no agility.
 

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I think what others are saying is we all want a healthy dog with good genetics. In order to get that a breeder has to know 1. proper AKC conformation, and that is proved by showing and 2. health/genetic testing of the parent dogs. Preferably at least to me on a prior generation also. Some things like personality, whether they dog will be a cuddle bug or an excitable dog show up from earlier generations. I had one breeder (years ago) that has pup with a poor personality, very alpa. She said his great grand father had the same and she thought she had bred it out but apparently it showed up a few generations later. He had to be placed in a home the could handle that. I think breeding dogs is complicated.
 

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Welcome, Mhenson! I agree with what's been said. If you are seriously interested in breeding, take a step back and really research what goes into producing sound, healthy poodles. A dog show is the perfect place to meet breeders. When you find someone you like who is willing to mentor you, and you are ready, you should start with one show dog. The breeder who is mentoring you will plan the breedings. It takes years to become knowledgeable about this and is best left to the experts. Anything less is backyard breeding territory and most of us do not support that in any way, shape, or form. Showing and winning in conformation and sports is the best way to know you are producing sound, healthy poodles with good temperaments, IMHO.
 

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Question if someone is looking for a dog no intention of showing or agility and the breed has all health testings, and uses good breeding stock to start with, why those requirements. I just always wanted a cuddle bug, no showing and no agility.

The OP talked in her intro post about wanting to get a breeding pair of dogs. I think any dogs for breeding should meet the standards for showing. As I have in the past I refer those interested to this wonderful article that has been copied many times here and elsewhere.


I Don’t Want A Show Dog; I Just Want A Pet. by Joanna Kimball on July 13, 2010


This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they're getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.
I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show-bred dog. And I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they're buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.
Here's why:
If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you've heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.


The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog"; they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.


That's where people have made the right initial decision they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.


Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.


You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.


It is no bargain.
Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.


If you don't NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you're saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong.


If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label.


Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you're considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off.
 

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This is all spot on. I bred standard poodles for many years in the 70s and 80s. I also bred whippets.


Breeding dogs is very, very expensive if it is done properly. The individual health tests are not too expensive, but it adds up pretty fast. A C-section is horribly expensive. Pyometra can be fatal and it almost always results in sterility. The puppies sometimes die. And so on . . .
 

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I did not intend to show my ignorance in using the words “breeding pair”.

I absolutely do not want to run a puppy mill or be an irresponsible breeder. That is one reason I joined this forum to do my due diligence, not to be overwhelmed with critical responses on my poor choice of words or my desire to gain all the knowledge I can on the subject.

I have had poodles almost my entire adult life and am retired now at the young age of 56. I would love to raise my own healthy pups to go to other responsible poodle lovers like myself. I have the time and the ability to gain the knowledge that a responsible breeder must have to be successful not in monetary terms but in healthy happy puppy terms. My dogs will be raised in my home and share my bed, couch and whatever other areas of my home they want to be in. They will be well vetted and OFA certified as well as registered with the Kennel Club of my choice. My two girls I have now were spayed as soon as my vet recommended they should be spayed and enjoy a leisurely life of comfort because I made the choice to be responsible and not breed when I wasn’t ready. If I desire to breed poodles or not, the new additions to our family will be treated the same.


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I did not mean to suggest you were ignorant of anything in my reference to my dislike for the phrase "breeding pair." I am sorry to have offended you in that regard, but I don't think most breeders start with a "pair." I think it is much more common for someone new to breeding to choose a well built puppy that could be their foundation dog, show him or her to titles and then in coordination with an experienced breeder find a good match to breed that dog. If the foundation dog is a bitch then obviously you have puppies to sell or to keep. If the foundation dog is a dog then you will offer a stud arrangement and perhaps specify a pick bitch pup from that litter instead of a $ fee.

I will stand by my comments about things to consider in preparing to breed and please note I don't think anyone who replied told you not to go forward in considering doing it.

One thing we all have in common is our love and respect for this wonderful breed that has been through many trials with the designer dog trend (again I do recognize this isn't your thinking or plan. I just hope that we get a good future breeder out of your research here and that you go in fully prepared to deal with all of the challenges. I don't think any of the other replies said they thought you were going to be a "greeder" just rather expressed their concerns for poodles with the passion they feel for them. You asked for advise (with a very open ended question) and we gave our honest advise in reply. Please stick with us. Your situation of being retired so early in life (I am a bit older than you and wish I could retire to spend more time on my training) sounds ideal for getting started with this complex hobby.
 

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Lily cd re thank you for the clarification and I do thank everyone that posted for the advice I received. This Forum is awesome and I will stick around to get to know everyone better.




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We are always happy to welcome people with lovely poodles (and your little girls really are very pretty) who want to do the right things to share the wealth of knowledge that we have here and make things better for all our poodles (better breeding, better training, better health) and to shed light for the rest of the world who visits the forum to see the virtues of poodles and become non-doodler converts!


Have you always had small dogs or ever had or thought about a standard? Since BF has had GSD all of his adult life and I always wanted a standard anyway we have a decidedly big dog home here, but my mom has a mall side of the spectrum mpoo, so some small dog experience too.
 
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I would love to have a Standard. I don’t know how my old lady (Lilbit is 11) would handle it though. We adopted a German Shepherd from our local humane society which adamantly assured us that she was “very friendly and great with other dogs”. She did really well the first day but the second day Lilbit jumped on my lap and the GSD barked which scared her off my lap and then she chased Lilbit down and attacked her. Thankfully we were there to intervene and she wasn’t seriously injured but she was injured enough that she can no longer jump onto the bed. Needless to say, the GSD went back to the shelter. My husband was furious with them for reassuring us she would be great with the small dogs. Understandably we are hesitant to do anything to upset our girls. I want to get another female poodle pup (our daughter is getting a male if we decide to breed) so that we will always have a pair. I’m not expecting anything but a long healthy life for Lilbit and Feisty but at Lilbit’s age I thought I would start looking and possibly find something useful to do with my time.


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I just realized I didn’t answer your question. Lol! Yes, I have always had small dogs except for my Great Pyrenees who guarded my goats and llamas on the farm and my wonderful Pigi (a beautiful GSD) that we lost way too soon. She was my baby. That was ages ago though. I had a long haired chihuahua before Lilbit. She lived to be 14 years old.


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I did not intend to show my ignorance in using the words “breeding pair”.

I absolutely do not want to run a puppy mill or be an irresponsible breeder. That is one reason I joined this forum to do my due diligence, not to be overwhelmed with critical responses on my poor choice of words or my desire to gain all the knowledge I can on the subject.

I have had poodles almost my entire adult life and am retired now at the young age of 56. I would love to raise my own healthy pups to go to other responsible poodle lovers like myself. I have the time and the ability to gain the knowledge that a responsible breeder must have to be successful not in monetary terms but in healthy happy puppy terms. My dogs will be raised in my home and share my bed, couch and whatever other areas of my home they want to be in. They will be well vetted and OFA certified as well as registered with the Kennel Club of my choice. My two girls I have now were spayed as soon as my vet recommended they should be spayed and enjoy a leisurely life of comfort because I made the choice to be responsible and not breed when I wasn’t ready. If I desire to breed poodles or not, the new additions to our family will be treated the same.


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If you're in the USA, your only legitimate "choice" is AKC. Well, and I guess UKC for parti and other multi-colored poodles. If you're in Canada, it's the Canadian Kennel Club.

Also, if you're just trying to find something useful to do with your time when you retire, I would definitely start training for a sport with the dogs you have--either a companion sport like rally or a performance sport like barn hunt. You will meet breeders along the way and gain a lot of knowledge about training, which will give you a better relationship with any breeders/mentors who choose to work with you.
 

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Yes what Lillycd has said, You have lots to learn. 45 years ago I had a mentor who raised mini schnauzers. She showed them in conformation, had a few at Westminster. I bought a potential breeding female from her. With her assistance we bred her 2 or 3 times. I can tell you its a lot of expense and a ton of work. Puppies like to make their appearance in the middle of the night and it takes all night much of the time. LOL Puppies are sometimes breech, sometimes mama just gets to tired and then the dreaded c sections another big expense. You have to also make sure all the puppies were born and that they isn't one still inside that has died or you will lose you dog too. Personalities, hearts, patellas, eye certification, whew its a lot to deal with. It was more than I had time to do plus the costs were pretty high for me. All my pups went to their new homes with tails docked, ear cropped, wormed, 1st shots, and fully groomed. Perhaps a good start would be with joining the poodle club of America and your local chapter. Go to some shows, meet some breeders you will find that very beneficial. Good luck in your endeavors, Oh and I do believe if your in the US the "choice" for registering is the AKC. I wish you the best and look forward to hear of from your new experiences.
 

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They will be well vetted and OFA certified as well as registered with the Kennel Club of my choice.
Can you explain what you mean by "the Kennel Club of my choice"? Essentially all quality poodles are registered with the AKC, although some also register with UKC in order to show in that venue. That said, being registered is no guarantee of quality - even puppy mills are often able to register the dogs they produce - until the AKC catches on to them (and that takes time).

The best way to get into breeding poodles is to work with a mentor - someone who is a long established breeder of top quality dogs. Breeding dogs requires knowledge of several generations and that knowledge is maintained by those who have been involved in the breed for many years. If you will give us an idea of the part of the country in which you live, there are members here who can recommend one or more mentors.


Another way to learn is to attend dog shows and trials and talk to the poodle people there (but not right before they go in the ring!).
 

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I’m late to the thread and adding my welcome to the forum. Many of our members have offered good advice and cautionary tales about becoming a breeder. It’s not easy, but if it is your heart’s desire, why not? Especially, if your objective is better poodles:)
 

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Can you explain what you mean by "the Kennel Club of my choice"? Essentially all quality poodles are registered with the AKC, although some also register with UKC in order to show in that venue. That said, being registered is no guarantee of quality - even puppy mills are often able to register the dogs they produce - until the AKC catches on to them (and that takes time).

The best way to get into breeding poodles is to work with a mentor - someone who is a long established breeder of top quality dogs. Breeding dogs requires knowledge of several generations and that knowledge is maintained by those who have been involved in the breed for many years. If you will give us an idea of the part of the country in which you live, there are members here who can recommend one or more mentors.


Another way to learn is to attend dog shows and trials and talk to the poodle people there (but not right before they go in the ring!).


Sorry for the mixup, I should have said “Full registration with the American Kennel Club will be my choice”.

Thank you for the good advice. I am still in the exploration phase on breeding but I am looking for a female miniature puppy with breeding rights. By the time she’s old enough to breed I’ll have done my homework, I hope!


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