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New SPOO puppy: so disappointed

16K views 66 replies 34 participants last post by  Raven's Mom 
#1 · (Edited)
Hey all. I acquired my first Spoo ever several months ago. Male from health tested, show lines (grand champion pedigree)....But I am so completely disappointed in him. The dogs I've had in the past were loving and we immediately bonded. This guy is aloof, responds to me if I have food or a toy, seems to have a high prey drive, i.e., he growls and jumps up on me, slams into me, and bites my clothes. And walking him is a constant fight...He pulls on the leash, in spite of all my efforts and those of a trainer.
He's six months now. We've been going to puppy school for months, I socialize him all the time, spend most of my day alongside him, training, rewarding, exercising, providing challenging games etc. But it doesn't seem to matter. He shows no love, little interest in anything but food or toys, and no progress in terms of behavior.
It's been a dream of mine to have a SPOO...I feel I've made a huge mistake. I'm crushed.
Note: the breeder i got him from does not do Volhard testing, but she said he had a great, gentle temperament, and when I got him at 10 weeks he seemed fine...a nice, cute pup.
If you have any advice or insight, it would be appreciated.
 
#4 ·
Sorry to hear that, SpacePoodle. At six months, he's young enough to rehome and hopefully get back whatever you paid for him.

I wish I had done that with my cat. I got him as a kitten and he never became the cuddly companion that I thought and hoped he would. I kept waiting and trying, and he's still an aloof couch potato that hates being picked up and has low tolerance for being petted more than a minute and will try to bite. He's 4 years old now. I contacted a Siamese rescue about him a year ago but they said his aggressiveness was a liability and turned him down. So I feed him and talk to him; he likes to lie near me sometimes and will meow back if he feels like it, likes 3 or 4 pats on the head and he's happy, and he doesn't bother my poodle, so he's here to stay unless I miraculously find someone who just wants another breathing being in their home.

Some pets, like romantic partners, simply don't work out, and trying to force the kind of relationship you want is waste of time that's better realized sooner than later. Wishing you better luck with your next poodle or dog, you deserve one that can give as well as receive your love and affection.
 
#5 ·
Sorry to hear that, SpacePoodle. At six months, he's young enough to rehome and hopefully get back whatever you paid for him.
You can't do that with a show breeder poodle. The contract almost always states that you have to return the dog to the breeder.

It took me a while to bond with my dogs. Maizie was a VERY independent puppy, never cuddled (was way too busy getting into mischief), but by a year old she started getting more affectionate. Now at three years old she is extremely loving.

I would contact your breeder and have a heart to heart and see what you want to do. It sounds like the puppy may be more suitable for a very active, performance type home. But if you love him and are willing to work with him, I can almost guarantee you that you'll bond with him in time.
 
#6 ·
The bond with our boys took longer than we expected. Apparently I didn't make notes in my journal but it was a few months with us before they started choosing to cuddle and generally show love back. BUT once they started, there is no move without one or both boys in front, beside, behind, under or on us :) When we talk to them, they now look into our eyes, heads tilting, looking like they so much want to talk back.

Your description of his puppy behavior sounds pretty familiar to me. Somewhere along the way though, they chose us back. I wasn't sure anything like this was going to happen. It did :)

Like zooeysmom said, if you love him and want to keep trying, it's almost a guarantee that the love will be returned.

I'm not saying your feelings of disappointment are a cause, but he must feel it as an effect. I don't know how to advise you to manage that, but if you can let it go somehow and just find some more silliness to share with him, it could help him relax. Adjustment to a new life takes longer for some of us.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Lily and I distinctly disliked each other more than not for the first 15 months of her life. She is totally my heart dog though and we have done wonderful things together. Getting to where we are took getting through her mouthing me mercilessly, ripping clothes, etc. etc, etc..... When she was young I dreaded walking into the house because I just did not want to deal with her craziness. There were many days where I wondered why I had ever wanted her, and I waited over 20 years to be able to have the home and schedule to give her a good life. It was very upsetting and disappointing. One day I pulled into the driveway and instead of going inside I took a walk and did some deep breathing and stretching to let go of my tense anticipation. I walked in clam and was greeted by a calm dog. Our relationship was transformed when I had a light bulb moment of understanding how sensitive she was to my feelings. Smiling on the outside but being annoyed, disappointed or otherwise not matching your demeanor to your real state of mind is very confusing to dogs.


Lily was approaching seven when we brought Javelin home. We had already earned many of the titles we have and had been to rally nationals once. I knew he would be a great dog for me, but my feelings about him were pretty lukewarm and in some ways I kept myself detached from him because I was working hard to make sure Lily and Peeves knew they weren't being replaced. This isn't to say that I didn't devote a lot of attention to him. I certainly did. Despite my detachment he bonded very very strongly to me and now I have a fabulous and deep relationship with both of them.


Poodles are very sensitive. I know you love your dog, but I can also pretty much promise you that he knows you are disappointed even though you are probably working hard not to show it.



I hope you can find a way to get the bond that is so wonderful when dog and owner click with each other.
 
#8 ·
Well I just wrote a long reply but got bumped off now its gone :)
What kind of training are you doing? pet store or actual trainer?
Are you using a pinch collar?
Renn has a nice structured walk and no longer pulls at all. Though there are times he gets excited but I put him back in his place. We do structured walk with heeling/sit/stay while I walk around him, circles each directions. Then we do relaxing walk where he can just sniff.
He is mostly tethered to me in the house because of my husbands health otherwise I think he would already be more calm in the house off leash. But we work on it when hub is sleeping or string.
Renn use to jump on me and tear my skin where it would bleed at that time I thought I made a mistake. But I corrected him and now we are good.
Get a pet convincer, some don't like it but it s just a puff of air, not to close to the dog but about 8 inches, he will stop jumping on you and your will not need a harsh correction. Renn is now 10 months, he has become a 1 person dog, not something I wanted but it is so because I did all the training and didn't take him enough strange places. As long as he is next to me he is fine. At 6 months your guy is still a puppy and his training hasn't clicked. In the beginning I tried the positive reenforcement training, it did not work. I had to go back to basic training with correction. He wears a pinch collar, honestly he doesn't really need it now but its more for me now if he suddenly gets excited he won't pull hard enough to knock me down. Though he walks nice and will sit and let someone pet him there is no telling that he won't suddenly leap up so I keep it on him. He isn definitely my dog and loves only me. I wish he loved someone else in this house he doesn't he tolerates them and loves them if I'm not present. Your guy has a way to go. I'd find a different trainer to work with not a pet store , don't know what kind of trainer you have. If your truly disappointed I'd return him to his breeder. These guys are the smartest dogs I've ever owned and they can easily train you . You have to be the leader so that they respect you.
 
#11 ·
I agree with the others, six months is definitely too early to measure your dog’s bond with you.

Six months is very young, and being excited, jumping, biting, pulling on the leash are all normal puppy behaviors. He might be a little more active than you bargained for, but this is all trainable. Are you doing puppy classes ? This might be a good way to see what other puppies are like while training your dog. You might realize you’re luckier than you think when you meet other puppies...
 
#12 ·
I Are you doing puppy classes ? This might be a good way to see what other puppies are like while training your dog. You might realize you’re luckier than you think when you meet other puppies...
Haha, that is so true. I'm always so grateful to have my dogs any time they're in a class with unruly dogs!
 
#13 ·
Hugo was very alof as a puppy as well. He never ever gave kisses, never came up to you for cuddles, would come when called and you can pet him but he never tried to instigate it. Now at 2 years he is a total love bug and wants to cuddle anytime he can. He loves to sit with his back facing the couch and will bend his head as far back as he can to say 'hey, i'm right here!! why aren't you petting mee!!', if he is facing you he will nudge your hands or put his paw on you. As a pup he did non of this and i was concerned since I thought males were more cuddly then females. He still isn't a kisser but will occasionally kiss your hands, I think I've only had him lick my face once.

It takes time to grow a bond and for them to instigate affection. If you you have decided to keep working with him it will happen.

I should mention Hugo isn't neutered, i'm not sure if that affected how cuddly he was but not until after 1.5 years did he start to be calm and affectionate, once the hormones settle down maybe?

Best of Luck!
 
#14 ·
A lot of people initially regret getting puppies. It's called hte puppy blues.
They are so much work and effort and at the start there are so many expectations and so many humps in training that it's at least 55% a pain in the ass to have them.
But slowly they learn, and slowly you get less tired and frustrated, and then slowly you can bond.
Don't forget in all your effort and training to also train your dog to relax/settle. That's a very important part. And remember that if you're having a rough time you can pop your puppy into it's crate for an hour or 2, even if you're at home and not doing anything, but just need a rest from him.
 
#15 ·
A lot of people initially regret getting puppies. It's called hte puppy blues.

Don't forget in all your effort and training to also train your dog to relax/settle. That's a very important part. And remember that if you're having a rough time you can pop your puppy into it's crate for an hour or 2, even if you're at home and not doing anything, but just need a rest from him.

Excellent points, Mysticrealm! I still have to crate Frosty at 2 years old to help him settle at least once a day. It is VERY helpful to get a break.
 
#16 ·
Dewey too was aloof as a puppy. He liked doing things together but was not affectionate. He wanted to be with me and followed me everywhere but not to cuddle. It sounds like he was exactly like Hugo. However, he was neutered early ( 7 months ). I don't think we really bonded until he was over a year. Somewhere between 1 and 2 years he started becoming more affectionate. As he gets older, now 4 years, he is more and more affectionate with asking to be petted, kisses and cuddles throughout the day.
 
#17 ·
I also agree that sometimes bonding is a mysterious process that takes quite a while. I was kinda pushed into being a poodle mama by my well meaning husband who couldn't deal with the empty house and the devastation left by losing two dogs two weeks apart. Poodle kid was not the little angel he resembled - he was tough as nails, didn't like being cuddled and held - listened only when it suited him and THE mouthiest little monster we ever had. Now we have had him for almost 6 months and things are settling. He has discovered his love for snuggling under the blanket. He knows that I will not tolerate endless mouthing and goes to bring himself a chewy. He loves being held - although he needs his independence. He shines as a greeter and when we are in crowds.
In other words it took time on both our sides to mesh our styles. It really takes many months getting to know each other - each dog is a whole new being. It may just be too early to give up - however if your mind is made up you have to do what is right by you and him. If you feel that you simply cannot go on - go out and find him another place. It is a really hard decision but maybe you already made it?
 
#18 ·
Don’t give up! I changed breeds from Scottish Terriers to a poodle and it was a shocker. Scottie’s are very aloof and also way down on the dog IQ rankings. I would have been lost without PF and an excellent trainer. Buck was all about himself, mouthy as hell, cute, but exhausting. I don’t remember him being a licker or a cuddler at all as a puppy. He was full of insistent demands, curiosity and mischief, still is. A sense of humor, hanging onto the incremental milestones of training, like potty on command, carry you forward. Also, some humility because poodles are the Ferrari of dogs. My dog has been obsessed with me since he was allowed free range in the house, he eventually became a licker, which I do not like, a warm sofa buddy, and a too cozy occupant of our bed.
 
#20 ·
I've never had a dog (or a cat except the current one) that didn't bond me instantly, so what others have said here is completely alien to me.

I don't know if this matters but I've always sat quietly and let the dog/puppy or cat come to me and choose me, and if it seemed to like me, it was a match.

I didn't do that with my cat as a kitten b/c none of them came over; I hindsight don't think the owner handled them enough, and to this day he's sort of semi-feral even though he's never stepped a foot outdoors.
 
#22 ·
I have said it many times before-Puppyhood is not for the faint of heart. I had not had a puppy since 1999 when i got Otter,at 9 wks,in Feb 2017. I was much younger then!:2in1: Spoos are a WHOLE different ball game from whippets,too. I frustrated VERY easily,and said MANY MANY times, "I don't like him,and I CERTAINLY don't love him!" But,we forged ahead, and today (nearly 2 years old) he is completely bonded with me. It takes time,patience,and some level of maturity of the pup.Don't despair,it will come!:tea:

Martha,Che and WildMan
 
#23 ·
martha I am very glad you chimed in here about your experience with Otter. I know you two have had a bumpy road and that your expectations have been different from your experiences, but as you note persistence builds the relationships and behaviors we want.
 
#26 ·
In Mini's Obedience 1 class there was a beautiful white spoo that sounds like yours. In the first class the trainer put up a barrier between the white spoo and the dogs on each side. This helped the dog to settle down and she had the dog only practice being quiet. The next class the dog was better, not perfect but better. I found out that the trainer had done a few one on one class at the dog's home. This allowed the dog to learn without the distractions of the other dogs. By the end of the class the dog was under control.

The other thought is to look into Susan Garrett's training. Her games improve your relationship with the dog. I am doing her games with mine and our relationship is a lot more fun.
 
#29 ·
When Noelle was six months old, I was positive I'd picked the wrong service dog candidate. She had a shorter attention span than any puppy in my obedience classes. Bringing Noelle to class was embarrassing. Other puppies her age could sit and stay. Noelle was so cranked up in class I was lucky if I could get her attention for a blink. The trainer said heel, and Noelle dragged me behind her as if I didn't exist.

I choose this puppy to be my service dog? Really? Noelle bounced more than a SuperBall slammed by Serena Willams's racket. I can't do this. This dog is insane. We flunked out of obedience school. We flunked out of a second obedience school. We flunked out of a third obedience school.

I thought Noelle was too wild to train. In reality, Noelle was too immature to learn the lessons I wanted to teach. Things that were impossible at six months became possible at 18 months. Things that were impossible at 18 months are now starting to emerge. Noelle will be three on Halloween. Today Noelle amazed me. Absolutely blew me away.

It was early afternoon and my husband and I have a ritual. We get the dogs completely cranked up with excitement, and then send them outside to play ball. Francis was leaping and barking. Noelle was spinning in circles. Do you want to go outside? Do you want to play ball? Are you ready? Are you ready? Everything was like always. Except my blood sugar plummeted.

My husband flung open the door and Francis took off outside. Noelle had to choose. Do I go outside and play fetch with Dad? Or do I stay in the kitchen with mom and alert her to low blood sugar? A year ago, she would have ran outside to play. Six months ago, she would have gone outside to play. Today, Noelle spun around away from the wide open back door and tagged me. "Mom, you're low." While Francis frolicked outside with her ball, Noelle stayed with me until I was ok to go outside and play.

The dog who flunked out of three obedience schools did that today. She put my need ahead of her own heart's desire. I never imagined Noelle would do that when she was embarrassing me in class after class. But we got here. We got here because I slowed down and realized Noelle was too immature to learn what I was trying to teach. Because I gave her space, Noelle is maturing at her own speed in her own way and making me proud every day.

Your puppy is six-months-old. I don't believe he's the wrong dog, and that he'll never become a therapy dog. I believe deep in my soul that he's too immature to learn what you're teaching. Your puppy is too young for you to decide he can't be a therapy dog. I believe he can be an amazing therapy dog if you have the patience and slow your expectations. Let him mature at his own speed and you'll be blown away by how far he goes.

"Anyone who thinks that all fruits ripen at the same time as strawberries, knows nothing of grapes.” ― Paracelsus

"Anyone who thinks all puppies mature at the same rate, knows nothing of poodles." ― Click-N-Treat
 
#32 ·
It was early afternoon and my husband and I have a ritual. We get the dogs completely cranked up with excitement, and then send them outside to play ball. Francis was leaping and barking. Noelle was spinning in circles. Do you want to go outside? Do you want to play ball? Are you ready? Are you ready? Everything was like always. Except my blood sugar plummeted.

My husband flung open the door and Francis took off outside. Noelle had to choose. Do I go outside and play fetch with Dad? Or do I stay in the kitchen with mom and alert her to low blood sugar? A year ago, she would have ran outside to play. Six months ago, she would have gone outside to play. Today, Noelle spun around away from the wide open back door and tagged me. "Mom, you're low." While Francis frolicked outside with her ball, Noelle stayed with me until I was ok to go outside and play.

The dog who flunked out of three obedience schools did that today. She put my need ahead of her own heart's desire. I never imagined Noelle would do that when she was embarrassing me in class after class. But we got here. We got here because I slowed down and realized Noelle was too immature to learn what I was trying to teach. Because I gave her space, Noelle is maturing at her own speed in her own way and making me proud every day.

"Anyone who thinks that all fruits ripen at the same time as strawberries, knows nothing of grapes.” ― Paracelsus

"Anyone who thinks all puppies mature at the same rate, knows nothing of poodles." ― Click-N-Treat
It might be all these pregnancy emotions, but this story made me cry (happy tears)



——
All these stories are why my husband and I keep pushing out looking for a poodle. I was pretty against the idea of a fifth kid for a long time, and was all set to start getting ready for a spoo. Our fourth kid was sleeping through the night so I could handle a puppy! I had this nagging thought I tried to ignore, but couldn’t. Our dogs still have a few quarks, but really were pretty easy puppies. They never cried at night, both loved to please and were pretty good at focusing. You know, for puppies. I’ve been reading stories similar to ones on here since 2005, and know that poodles are a completely different dog than mine. My Pin is extremely intelligent and I figure that meant they would be similar but there are many other aspects to consider. Such as maturity.

Based on human family life, I’ll have time and energy to put into a pup in 3-4 years. Unfortunately that would put my beagle at 14-15 (currently she would be wonderful with a puppy) and my pin at 13-14 (who would probably just try to keep his space from the puppy) so that might mean a puppy will get put off longer.

Anyway I’m straying off topic. Stories like the OPs give me encouragement to stick with the right path and not get excited about a puppy. I’m not going to get a perfect puppy, so I’m going to make sure my life can handle a slow maturing one.
 
#30 ·
I've raised numerous puppies ... terriers, mixed breeds, etc. I guess when I decided on a poodle, searched for one with low prey drive and therapy dog potential, I thought I'd have at least have some of the basic temperament i was looking for.
space poodle..I too have raised many dogs and trained them. The st poodle is totally different for me he has been most challenging. I also wanted a calm temperament with hopes of doing therapy with him, just maybe visiting nursing homes. But at 11 months I know he is not that dog....at least yet..I'm giving him 3 years to be that guy before I consider therapy work he is till a baby and will act like a baby. It seems to me at least in my experience poodles are a breed of their own, maybe its their intelligence, If in the end Renn isn't a therapy dog thats ok, I love him and now he loves me too . I just don't think you're. going to have the dog you want in 6 months or even a year. I learned something some 40 years ago when I was training a german shepherd thru their club, some dogs that are very smart get bored very easily and there may be times when less training is more beneficial. Shorter sessions, incorporating it into normal behavior, having "free time" for the pup to romp and play. I had to do 2 puppy classes with that dog, later and advanced class. He by far was the best trained o ut of any dog I had. I could take him into a vet's office that was crowded, put him in a down, place a milk bone on his nose and people/dogs could step over him and he wouldn't budge. I thought in the beginning he would never learn. We had some trying times especially when I was having an addition added to my house and he chewed thru 80% of all the new studs. When I said What did you do? he came after me to bite me, rifle action I shoved my fist in his mouth. After that we were best friends.
 
#31 ·
I agree with those who have commented that their poodle was slow to mature and settle. Lily was crazy until she was almost three and Javelin at three now is starting to really collect himself quite nicely.


I think at this point you have to decide if you can work through and wait out adolescence (which is long for poodles).
 
#33 ·
I have been amazed at all the stories about poodles who were wild until 2-3 years of age. Maybe it was the bloodlines I had (Wycliffe and Bel Tor), but I never had a standard who was not pretty calm by the time s/he was a year old. It's been too many years since I've had a toy poodle, so I cannot remember about them. Zoe, my mini, is exuberant and playful and sometimes naughty, but has always been affectionate and reasonably well behaved (so long as there is no paper left around to be shredded).


From the time I got her at 11 weeks, we worked on "watch me", "drop it", "come", "no" (and "no, dammit"). All of those she did well except that "come" was conditional. It worked just fine away from home, but at home it depended upon what she thought was going to happen next. I never, ever, called her to come and followed that with something unpleasant, but she was always rather suspicious.
 
#34 ·
I enrolled my puppy (Mimi) in the Oakland Canine Circus School under a very experienced teacher (Francis Metcalf) who could also be called sensei because he’s that great... anyway he paraphrased an old saying about raising perennials and applied it to dogs like this: “the first year your pup leaps, the second year your dog creeps, and the third year the dog sleeps”.
In other words have patience.


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