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Lexie & Leia
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone!

We will be getting our new toy poodle this last week of June. My partner finally agrees to it. Any tips you can give for new owners (aside from the obvious ones)? We are used to medium-sized dogs and it's our first time to get small-sized breed.

Would also love your suggestions on where to find a good dna test kit (I just want to make sure its purity).

Love lots and thank you everyone!
 

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Welcome to PF. We love our poodles here.

I echo what Johanna pointed out. If you are buying from a reputable breeder - one who shows her dogs in conformation or other competition dog sports and does all the testing recommended by the Poodle Club of America then there is no need to do a DNA test.

Recommended tests for a toy poodle

If you didn't, you might want to look for a reputable breeder. Dogs can always develop health risks, but the screening that a quality breeder does eliminates many problems that you find from poorly bred dogs. Some of these issues can be very expensive to repair such a petellar luxation surgery.

The other issue is a good breeder gets puppies off to a good start in life with a calm happy mother and a warm loving environment. Contrast this with puppy mills who leave unhappy stressed dogs to have puppies outside or barns in small cages with little socialization from humans.

We've had several people over the last few months post photos of puppies that they purchased and were told were purebred when they were mixes. That makes me sad and angry. There's nothing wrong with a mix - you can get them fairly cheaply from the local Animal Humane Society or other dog shelters. If you're paying a lot for a toy poodle, you should get a healthy toy poodle. We also have members who have spent a lot of money on poorly bred puppies - I just want to save you from the heartbreak if you have options to find a good breeder.

lots of good info on raising a puppy here:

Errorless Housetraining I just finished potty training my puppy and this was excellent to follow.
 

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If you buy from a reputable breeder the puppy will be purebred. Did you find your puppy through a local poodle club or kennel club? I hope so.
I’m going to second this. Far too many scams out there right now.

@bowwowshop, my best advice for you right now would be to ensure you’re getting the happiest, healthiest toy poodle. This means working with a good breeder, and with a good breeder you won’t require a DNA test.

Once you’ve got the “good breeder” box ticked, I’d recommend reading this cover to cover:


Toy poodles are little geniuses. They are learning 24/7 whether you realize you’re training them or not. Provide them with kindness, fairness, and consistency and you’ll have the greatest companion you could ever ask for. :)
 

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Hi and welcome!

We truly don't mean to rain on your puppy parade but what about the breeder has caused you to ask about DNA breed testing? We have seen members writing of their disappointments after the fact and are always hoping to help everyone start off on the right foot.

Are the dam and sire American Kennel Club or United Kennel Club registered and do you have the proof of that? Will the breeder give you registration papers at the time you bring your pup home?

If you're paying quality breeder prices, which are ranging from $2000-$3500 +/- some, but aren't confident of the breeder, please think hard about this. I wouldn't want to pay those prices without the perks that a quality breeder offers.

As for DNA breed testing, Embark gets the most recommendations because they offer a combination breed and health test kit.

If the breeder isn't doing health testing of their breeding dogs before they start breeding them, and that's now a benchmark for quality breeders, then they're stinting on the future of your puppy and of the poodle breed as a whole.

Not something that prior health testing of the parents will help, but toys are susceptible to hypoglycemia, which can turn deadly, quickly. Sticky info here.

A Pandemic (and beyond) Puppy Primer was created by Liz and is found here.
 

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Welcome to the forum. I agree with whats been said. I think the biggest concern I would have with a small dog is hypoglycemia, if the do not eat their sugar level can drop drastically. I would keep some Nutra-cal is a handy supplement to keep on hand. I have had to use it on my shih tzu when we first got him. He had some health issues. He was 2.4 lbs and dropped to 3 lbs due to having coccidia, Lots of diarrhea , lack of appetite and lethargy. I believe the nutra cal saved him. Hypoglygemia can occur even in the most healthy puppy, as they are adapting to be away from their known environment, they may go off their food. I also recommend a puppy playpen, so they can learn to have their own space and learn its ok to be alone. I used this one https://www.amazon.com/States-Super...ywords=toddlers+playpen&qid=1624015480&sr=8-3
Actually Walmart has the same one without a gate that is like $59.
I liked this as I could place puppy pads at one end, and his bed and toys at the other. We still use it even though he will soon be 1 but we have reduced the size as he is now housebroken. We use it because of his size and the fear of stepping on him in the middle of the night. Thats the only time he is in it now.
Looking forward to seeing pictures and hearing all about your new friend.
 

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Lexie & Leia
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Wow, thank you all for the answers! Lots of golden info/resources you got me here.

Yeah, we'd like to start right and in all honesty, I'd like to take my time and do some assignments before getting one. I know about how dreading the health issues of our dogs (as mentioned, we owned Dobermans already and they too have these menacing heart issues you gotta watch out for).

But, since we're decided on a new breed now, that's why I asked for advices. You guys/gals are awesome and tyvm again for the all the advice!
 

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Since poodles are new to you I'm going to add some tips, some things to consider, and some things to avoid for your search.

We often hear from folks that they just want a pet. What doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that the kind of quality, conscientious breeders I think most of us would prefer to support are always breeding for the very best poodles they can. It isn't pet puppy vs show puppy, it's lucky us, the ones wanting a pet who get the pups that have some small "fault" that might reduce their chances of winning competitions, but are flawless to us :).

It's not unusual to think that there are possibly thousands of breeders to choose from. For quality, conscientious breeders, that number is more likely only in the hundreds in the US. A bottom line difference is between those who're breeding primarily for profit and those who're breeding because they feel not only love for poodles but an obligation to the entire breed.

About reviews, a happy owner doesn't necessarily mean an informed owner. It's as likely they've just been lucky, so far. Review any negative comments carefully, if they're allowed to appear.

Getting a puppy from a quality, conscientious breeder is something like insurance. Their investment in the health, welfare, and soundness of all the dogs in their care including the puppies they offer to new homes is part of the reason you're not likely to find a less than $2000 USD puppy from them.

The saying is "pay the breeder or pay the vet". Price alone isn't the only thing to separate quality breeders from those less than. We've seen members quote as high and even much higher pricing for pups from parents not health tested, not proven to meet breed standards, sold as purebred when only a DNA test could determine that since they may be sold without registration papers.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

Look for and verify OFA/CHIC level testing at a minimum. There are also poodle specific health DNA panels for those testable conditions. Those are companion testing with the OFA/CHIC testing and may be done thru independent labs such as PawPrint
Look Up A Dog | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO (ofa.org)


A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read thru any contracts that may be listed. If they rule out coverage for conditions that the breeding pair should or could have been tested for, consider that a caution flag. Otherwise, are the terms clear to you and can you live with them?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. That beautiful color you fell for may not look the same in a few weeks, or months, or years.

Temperament and personality are lifelong traits.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my short version personal criteria:

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come. Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

Be extremely cautious of puppies sold thru pet stores, or online marketplaces like puppyspot, puppyfind, kijiji, craigslist, classified ads, etc. Many of these puppies will be mill puppies and while you may get lucky, the odds are against you and that sweet puppy. Finding a breeder in the AKC marketplace isn't an automatic guarantee of them being a quality breeder, but should, at a minimum, mean they are selling pups who may be registered with the AKC.

One additional caution, be very wary of those very cute short legged poodles. That's a genetic mutation which may carry serious life-altering disease.

This is a link to a Breeder List that I've been compiling from recommendations from PF members. With the recommendation, I then go to the breeders site and also to OFA to verify any health testing.

🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩
GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...
 

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Wow, thank you all for the answers! Lots of golden info/resources you got me here.

Yeah, we'd like to start right and in all honesty, I'd like to take my time and do some assignments before getting one. I know about how dreading the health issues of our dogs (as mentioned, we owned Dobermans already and they too have these menacing heart issues you gotta watch out for).

But, since we're decided on a new breed now, that's why I asked for advices. You guys/gals are awesome and tyvm again for the all the advice!
Where are you located? And have you already chosen a breeder and put down a deposit?
 
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