Multiple poodle question

1246 Views 13 Replies 10 Participants Last post by lily cd re, Jun 7, 2019

Raven's Mom

Discussion Starter · Jun 4, 2019

I have a question for those of you with multiples, especially more than one spoo. As most of you know I have been training Raven hoping to Competative obedience. She is fabulous in class most nights, and works well at home, but falls apart in the show ring. I have just about given up several times but take a break and try again. We did a “match” Sat. morning and she was awful. First of all I had to request a different “judge” (person calling the patterns) because it was a man we did not know and I know she will not a man touch her. The replacement was a woman with a cane and Raven freaked. Even her on leash heeling was terrible. My mother uses a cane and we live with her three days a week! Her recall was lovely and that’s about all we would have passed it been a real show. I have pretty much decided I need to change my expectations of her and just train for fun but not show, or get a second dog for competition.

All of that for my question.... do you feel like adding the second changed your relationship with the first? I love Raven and she is about the perfect dog as a pet and I do not want our relationship in the home to change. However, I am starting to feel like I’m making her miserable trying to do obedience trials, and it certainly no fun for me to go and bomb out while other dogs, less well trained from our class, already have their CD and are moving on. I am so torn.... it has been my dream to do this but it obviously isn’t hers.

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lily cd re

· #2 · Jun 5, 2019

I have a friend with a GSP who can be brilliant, but will never hold things together for trials. She just this week is telling various people that she doesn't want to try anymore. She has tried everything and been very torn and frustrated, but finally is conceding that wanting to do obedience with him is her thing, not his. I had similar feelings when I decided to stop trying in utility with Lily. I know this is hard, but I do think it is fair to both of you to recognize that she is not having fun.

That said when Javelin arrived I did work to make sure Lily still knew she was my heart dog and she still does view herself as the queen. When we are lounging or in bed, she is still the one who gets first choice of where to snuggle up and then Javelin squeezes himself in where he can. My relationships with both of them run very deep and are very special, but distinctly different. While we all three spend lots of time together I also make sure each dog gets its special one on one time too.

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Dechi

· #3 · Jun 5, 2019

The arrival of my second poodle changed nothing at all to the relation I had with the first one. And the relation I have with the second one is just as good as with the first one.

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Newport

· #4 · Jun 5, 2019

Can there be a better reason for wanting to get a second dog? Every trainer I've ever known has had a small pack of well trained dogs, and each one has their "purpose" (beyond being a loved family member). One legitimate dog job is "Retired"- sometimes if the owner is lucky the retiree become the resident puppy socializer.

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Michigan Gal

· #5 · Jun 5, 2019

Poodles like other dogs. I don't think Raven will be put out if you get another dog.

As for the ring, maybe you should bring Raven to matches and not have her compete. Let her get comfortable with the idea of being there with no pressure. Also, ask people to examine your dog as though they were a judge, using treats or click/treat. You can use a specific cue to let her know what is happening and that it is okay. Try "exam" or something like that so that she looks forward to the exam and treat.

You might also consider having someone else handle her in the ring. Your tension may be affecting her performance.

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Poodlebeguiled

· #6 · Jun 5, 2019

The others said it all. I think you should let her be in her comfort zone...at home, having fun in the back yard. You can do your obedience right there and let her enjoy her life. I wouldn't push the issue. She's super sensitive.

I have had multiple dogs for most of the time I've had dogs. They come and go, over lap each other, the old ones seeing new ones arrive, even more than once in some cases. I've had 4 dogs at a time plus a foster for a short time when I lived in Idaho. And everything's always been just fine. A little adjustment for all and then smooth sailing. At least that's how it's been for me. Each dog gets some one on one time, especially when there's a puppy. My dogs, now 6 years old and settled makes it so we do most outings together. But at first, more one on one.

So, if you want a dog to do performance, make sure you want another dog for a pet, first and foremost. You can't be 100% sure the next one will enjoy the competition either. When I was showing Matisse in conformation, I hated to see dogs clearly feeling pressured and not having fun. Matisse liked it, as he's extremely sociable...loved all the attention and not fearful of anything. The only thing I didn't like doing was making him stand on the table grooming for so dang long. That was boring for him. But he liked everything else. We didn't continue for much past his first b-day, as he finished at 8 months. I'm glad you're recognizing that your dog isn't thrilled with it because of those spooky types of things. Good luck with whatever you decide.

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Skylar

· #7 · Jun 5, 2019

Raven's Mom, I'm glad you asked this question. My DH and I have been bitten by puppy fever and we're planning on getting a puppy either next spring or the one after that. Because I want a minipoo, and I want a dog with the ability to enjoy dog sports, I'm giving myself time to find the right puppy.

I do think it would be helpful to analyze what the problems have been with Raven. Are there certain characteristics you think you would prefer in the next puppy? Are there things you will do differently in raising this puppy and perhaps something you would prefer the breeder to do in preparation?

I didn't get Babykin for dog sports ..... haha, I didn't know they existed beyond conformation we watched on TV. I also got my dog when she was almost a year old. But I've been watching all my dog sport friends with their new puppies and watching how they are raising them to be successful in obedience. Sometimes it's the little things like teaching a puppy to be so comfortable in a crate in a training facility that they can sleep or at least be relaxed. I know Catherine has been training Javelin differently than she did Lily, her first dog.

When I do get my next dog I will be doing things differently. I realize with every dog there are new challenges.

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glorybeecosta

· #8 · Jun 5, 2019

Dechi said:
The arrival of my second poodle changed nothing at all to the relation I had with the first one. And the relation I have with the second one is just as good as with the first one.

Agree I have 3 and they all are cared for and loved the same. Cayenne is a social butterfly loves going and meeting people. Bella at 25 is just as happy at home. Sage wants to go and has come a long way, but is still skittish and shy for a while, nothing like she used to be. I would never take Sage to a loud or crazy crowd, Cayenne yes.

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Click-N-Treat

· #9 · Jun 6, 2019

Does Raven enjoy Rally? Perhaps shifting your focus away from traditional obedience for awhile, and trialing in Rally only, will help her feel more relaxed and comfortable in the trial environment. You can also practice a lot of the skills for traditional obedience in the rally ring. Focus on heeling, close about turns, clean and fast downs and square sits. Give Raven a chance to enjoy trialing without the pressure of having a stranger reach in and touch her. Trial as often as possible, so it doesn't become, "surprise, we're in a scary new place."
I did that with Noelle before trying a novice obedience run again.

As far as a second dog, you'll always treasure and love Raven. You'll treasure and love a new dog, too, just differently than you do Raven because all dogs are differently amazing.

I know that my next obedience dog I will take to owner handler conformation puppy shows starting at 4 months, not to earn a championship, but to get the trial vibe in her puppy bones. The number of things I will do differently with my next dog has a list a mile long, but for right now, I'm enjoying the easily distractable dog I have.

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Raven's Mom

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 6, 2019

Thank you everyone who has replied. I may still do some rally but we are in Excellent and it we finish that I will be thrilled. She HATES to do more than one class in a day do I do not see and RAE in our future, but maybe.... I do plan to try Agility once she is cleared by the cardiologist who we have not seen yet about her heart murmur.

I am not looking for a puppy. This question only came about because I have a lead on a male spoo being rehomed. Raven’s main issue is not liking people. She has tried to snap at a couple people trying to do the “exam” and my trainer informed me that if that happened in the ring I could be banned from showing in anything AKC, SO, now I am afraid to keep trying situations where someone must touch her until I can be absolutely sure of her behavior. The owner of this dog I am looking at says he loves people and kids and has a lot of drive but is well mannered. She sent me video of him performing basic commands like recalls and finishes. He will be 2 years old in Aug. I don’t feel I can have a puppy right now because I care for my elderly mother and I don’t feel I could manage a wild spoo baby with her needs also.

I still have many questions about this dog but I cannot go see him until my summer school job is over. He is a couple states away but my daughter-in-law and two grandkids along with Raven are going with me to meet him at the end of June if he is still available at the time. I will get to see him interact with people of various ages and if I see any hesitation I’m walking away. Raven does not like kids at all and I do not want any part of that again.

Honestly, Raven has me so “gun shy” I also considered going back to collies because I felt I new the temperament better. I want to believe a I can have the same thing with a spoo that I had will collies who love people and not at all snippy, because Raven is such a cool dog in so many other respects.

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Moni

· #11 · Jun 7, 2019

Raven's Mom said:
Thank you everyone who has replied. I may still do some rally but we are in Excellent and it we finish that I will be thrilled. She HATES to do more than one class in a day do I do not see and RAE in our future, but maybe.... I do plan to try Agility once she is cleared by the cardiologist who we have not seen yet about her heart murmur.

I am not looking for a puppy. This question only came about because I have a lead on a male spoo being rehomed. Raven’s main issue is not liking people. She has tried to snap at a couple people trying to do the “exam” and my trainer informed me that if that happened in the ring I could be banned from showing in anything AKC, SO, now I am afraid to keep trying situations where someone must touch her until I can be absolutely sure of her behavior. The owner of this dog I am looking at says he loves people and kids and has a lot of drive but is well mannered. She sent me video of him performing basic commands like recalls and finishes. He will be 2 years old in Aug. I don’t feel I can have a puppy right now because I care for my elderly mother and I don’t feel I could manage a wild spoo baby with her needs also.

I still have many questions about this dog but I cannot go see him until my summer school job is over. He is a couple states away but my daughter-in-law and two grandkids along with Raven are going with me to meet him at the end of June if he is still available at the time. I will get to see him interact with people of various ages and if I see any hesitation I’m walking away. Raven does not like kids at all and I do not want any part of that again.

Honestly, Raven has me so “gun shy” I also considered going back to collies because I felt I new the temperament better. I want to believe a I can have the same thing with a spoo that I had will collies who love people and not at all snippy, because Raven is such a cool dog in so many other respects.

I wonder if you would like to give tracking or scent work a try. Why? Because it puts the dog in charge so much so that some dogs completely blossom. We had quite a few agility fails and obedience fails in tracking class who after tracking (getting their TD and more) went on to their original sports with renewed passion and drive. Some dogs react poorly to having to be told what to do all the time (this may not be Raven at all - just what I have observed in other dogs) so when they realize that they are 100% in charge at tracking and that the handler is reduced to "the dope at the end of the rope" it becomes their favorite activity bar none. Also tracking is a completely solitary endeavor - you don't compete against anybody other than yourself - even in a test. So that cuts down on negative stimuli so for dogs that overthink situations it can be a lifesaver of a sport.

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Raven's Mom

Discussion Starter · #12 · Jun 7, 2019

I have considered nose work that could be done indoors, but honestly, I can’t see me liking tracking. Raven might but it isn’t me at all. The folks I know who do it get up at ungodly hours to slog around in not great conditions and it just isn’t something I would care to do.

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Moni

· #13 · Jun 7, 2019

Raven's Mom said:
I have considered nose work that could be done indoors, but honestly, I can’t see me liking tracking. Raven might but it isn’t me at all. The folks I know who do it get up at ungodly hours to slog around in not great conditions and it just isn’t something I would care to do.

I hear you and I agree BUT there are all kinds of tracking. You don't need other people - you can train your dog alone and on your own scent. You don't need to do it at a specific hour and you don't need fields at all - tracking can be done at university campuses, parking lots, any bits of mowed grass. Some people like to do tracking at the crack of dawn because it is cooler in the summer - I don't think I have personally ever been on any field before 11 am ( just how I roll- haha) other than when there was a test to organize...if you are at all curious check out Enthusiastic Tracking by Will Sanders which has all the info and how-to you would ever need. Also no equipment necessary (long line most people have that - a few old gloves or socks and a harness) Surveyors flags are handy (for you more than the dog) and can be bought at an hardware store for $1 for 6. It is a great team building sport where the roles are reversed - the dog is the one with the know-how and has to communicate to you how to get to the end article. And it is so low key (no outside pressure on you or the dog) I find it a relaxing alternative to most dog sports which are all about competition, which can be rough on some dogs or some handlers.

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lily cd re

· #14 · Jun 7, 2019

Raven's Mom look at the TDU rather than a TD. It might be more your style and therefore be more fun for both of you.

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