Poodle Forum banner

1 - 20 of 79 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,496 Posts
moyens/kleins are an OFFICIAL size, just the same as mini and standards over there! So not a bad thing at all, they just have 4 sizes compared to our 3. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,155 Posts
moyens/kleins are an OFFICIAL size
Yeah, they are , but I am not sure that they get them by breeding standard to mini :rolffleyes::rolffleyes::rolffleyes:

I think they are in the category of their own and bred only between themselves.

The structure of puppies that this breeder sells is really not good O-o ... IMO

I hope some breeders will jump in soon with explanation : ))) !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
In Europe, I'm pretty sure they allow breeding of Poodles of different sizes, as long as it's no more than 10 cm.
I think this makes sense, because the structure would be kinda wrong when breeding a standard to a miniature,

I've seen a breeding like this, the dog's head it weird, it's legs are weird, it's body it weird, and it's tail is weird.

It's a weird looking Poodle full stop!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,183 Posts
I have seen some glorious Moyen's on some European web sites. A lot of North American Moyen breeders are importing from Europe and breeding them to their smaller Standards. I am not sure yet how I feel about it, but do know that this size is likely a potential gold mine for the people who breed them. I also think there is going to be a much bigger risk in the health of the pups because the toys and minis have problems that are exclusive to the toys and minis, as do the Standards, so now it will be interesting to see what happens when they start getting the genes of the minis and standards all rolled into one dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,686 Posts
Moyens are the "new" craze. Understand, though, that in Europe, they are not created by combining Minis with Standards, but typically by breeding Minis up in size.

Minis and Standards may be the same breed, but they are very different in type and temperament. If you took a Gamma Ray and enlarged a Mini, it would not look or act like a Standard. I would not consider the Mini/Standard breedings I have seen to be successful. Usually the Poodles are a combination of parts that don't all work together. Also, by breeding the two varieties together you introduce the health issues of both breeds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,037 Posts
If you read the previous red poodle thread , you would have read that the Red Standard poodle was originally developed by aMini/Standard breeding. Interesting stuff.. As far as the success of the Moyen/klein that remains to be seen . Lots of European breeders are doing this. And some Canadian Breeders are jumping into the mix. and importing dogs from Germany Bringing in some very much needed diversity..
I personally am very excited to see the outcome...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
486 Posts
http://karbitpoodles.com/home.html
Karin is breeding some wonderful dogs. They have great structure, and introduce some much needed diversity. Even Helen King, who has the infamous Mini Me with the problems, has high praise for them, as she's tested some of the litters.
But, - Karins dogs are for the most part very well suited for agility, and prolly need a job, not just laying on the couch. One of the members here has one of Karins pups.
Carole
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,546 Posts
LOL - I go to work and you guys have a discussion about Kleinpudels! :biggrin:

I had not even heard of a Kleinpudel until I talked to Helen King - I was looking for an oversized Mini and asked her for breeder recomendations - she highly recommended Karin and that's where I ended up. Karin is from Europe and leaves her puppies with their tails and dewclaws (another plus for me!).

I have to say, I love love love Vinnie's size. He is from a Klein x Klein breeding, but a couple of his grandparents are Standards. His sire is imported from Germany and I have been to that breeder's website and their dogs are drop dead gorgeous. To me, Vinnie looks like a very small standard - not like a mini at all. Karin has also imported a couple of really gorgeous Klein girls from Russia. I cannot wait to see what they produce.

Vinnie has more the personality of a standard. He IS a very busy dog - the temperament tester on his litter recommended that he NOT go to a pet home and so he came to live with me. All of Karin's litters have temperament and structure evaluations done to determine the best home for that puppy (Vinnie's structure was the best in his litter - he neck is just a bit short, but otherwise fantastic). A lot of her puppies are in agility/performance homes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,645 Posts
I talked to Karin when I was looking for another puppy and I really enjoyed talking to her. The amount of information she has in her head is enormous. I think if anyone is looking for that size poodle they should really speak with Karin and get to know her and find out more about her ideas on breeding and the kleinpudel in general.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,972 Posts
Interesting thread... so what is the difference between a klein and a mini?
I would like to know that too. I'm guessing the European standards require Standard Poodles to me larger than the requirement here. US Poodle standard says 15" and up, so I'm guessing EU says something like 20" and up? Kleins would be 15" to 20". It would be great to hear from someone who knows for sure though.

I'd also like to know if Moyen, Klein and Dwarf are all relatively the same thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
741 Posts
i love the size of a klien poodle....

i belive drawf is just the same as a min....

todd is a really small min only 13 and half inches
i wish he was a s big as vinnie
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
thanks for the replies, so Klein (German) and Moyen (French) is the same thing. I wonder why there aren't any more breeders in the US.
 
1 - 20 of 79 Posts
Top