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Discussion Starter #1
Groomed a goldendoodle yesterday, my boss came in and told me that the owner would probally be asking me to let one of my boys breed to her doodle. I right away told her it wasn't going to happen..but then I started thinking (BTW before anyone gets crazy on here, I AM NOT allowing any doodling with my dogs, I just often think about wierd subjects)

anywho here was my thought:

Are poodle people and golden and lab and whatever else has been "doodled" people not liking the doodle breeders because they are crossing the breeds or is it because they often are bybs and do not try to breed good dogs together, and pay no attention to genetic health. plus all the lies about doodles (they ont shed, they are healthier ect ect

If a breeder was going to do all the health testing on their breeding dogs, and ultimately make better doodles would the purebred people still be up in arms?

I do not know the answer to this. I personally do not care for doodles, If I wanted a hyper hairy slobber monster I would pen up my poodles till they had hairy faces and then feed them a bucket of skittles, but like I said...random things pop into my head.... I need another hobby. LOL
 

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My issue with doodles is that they are typically no longer being bred for a purpose other than MONEY. They were originally bred for service dog work (not sure why as poodles make amazing service dogs but whatever) and now I hardly see a stable enough doodle that could handle such a job.
It's also the lies and misconceptions about them being tossed about by unscrupulous doodle breeders that irks me. Do not lie about your "breed" to make it look better than a purebred poodle or a purebred golden. What are the true merits of the mix that justifies their breeding?

I have yet to see an ETHICAL doodle breeder.
 

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yup, it's the ethics of the breeding that I disagree with, not the fact it's a cross breed.

They cross horse breeds [generally for a purpose though] all the time. And cats too (tonkinese are a cross of burmese & siamese. Then you get burmillas and tiffanies etc that are all crosses too) but there is no issue over those crosses at all, because they're generally done with as much ethics as any purebred breeding program. Of course stupid byb of cats are slammed, regardless of what breed or cross breed they're dealing with.

If it was the same with dogs and there were ethical breeders doing all the testing and finding a good stud (rather than the neighbours dog cos he's handy) etc etc etc etc then I'd have no problem with the dogs or the breeder, I just haven't seen that yet.
 

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My issue with doodles is people breed them for the same reasons people want poodles.. smart, low shedding, cute, but they charge an arm and a leg for them with outragious sales pitches. It's a made up breed and the 'in' thing.

Besides.. I HATE how all their dogs look like ungroomed walking crappy rugs on their sites. I would be embarrassed if my dog looked like that, at least brush them and bathe them out before taking pictures ffs.
 

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There is no reason what so ever to purposely breed a Mutt. None. Ever.

I have my own issues with breeding in general but those aside I will never be okay with "Doodles".

With cats there are a limited number of pedigreed cats and by crossing they are actually helping some breeds. There are maybe 100+ cat breeds, there are a 1000+ dog breeds and many of those have been a "breed" for many years.

I don't know much about horses but like with cats breeding different breeds together helps more often then hinders. With dogs, not so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
There is no reason what so ever to purposely breed a Mutt. None. Ever.

I have my own issues with breeding in general but those aside I will never be okay with "Doodles".

With cats there are a limited number of pedigreed cats and by crossing they are actually helping some breeds. There are maybe 100+ cat breeds, there are a 1000+ dog breeds and many of those have been a "breed" for many years.

I don't know much about horses but like with cats breeding different breeds together helps more often then hinders. With dogs, not so much.
I can see where crossbreeding SOME dogs would be benificial to introduce some new blood or fix cosmetic things that pose health risks (bullogs anyone?)

I heard that they at one time opened the studbooks in Dalmatians because of the deafness issues in the breed. (cant remember where I heard that)

in some cases it should be done IMO


doodles doodles everywhere! I personally ont like the look of them... I never know what to do with the wispy hair on the ears. the one I groomed the other day was pretty decent looking conformation wise. She wasnt really gangly looking and actually WAS square and was not crazy hyper, I was shocked. most of the ones I see are painfully dysplastic and bounce off the walls. They tend to look like wirehaired goldens.

IA that the reason they have such a stigma about them is that the BYBs got on the money train as they tend to do and jumped at the next big thing in dogdom.

Its really sad because its the dog owners and the dogs themselves that suffer the fallout, and the greeders who reep the financial reward while the owners go into debt trying to save their beloved pet.
 

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Idon't like the fact that a purebred poodle is cheaper then a mutt right now.
All these people walking around saying it is a great "breed" I paid 2000 like that makes your mutt so much better then the one found in the spca.

Lots of doodles around my new house because it is brand new survey of all new up and comers who have to beat the jones's
 

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My issue with doodles is that they are typically no longer being bred for a purpose other than MONEY. They were originally bred for service dog work (not sure why as poodles make amazing service dogs but whatever) and now I hardly see a stable enough doodle that could handle such a job.
It's also the lies and misconceptions about them being tossed about by unscrupulous doodle breeders that irks me. Do not lie about your "breed" to make it look better than a purebred poodle or a purebred golden. What are the true merits of the mix that justifies their breeding?

I have yet to see an ETHICAL doodle breeder.
IA 100%!

I would say I have a problem with the fact that they are crossbreeding w/ no purpose and that Doodle breeder is synonomous with BYB/Puppymill.

I can respect crossbreeding for legitimate purposes. It's common here to cross Great Pyrenees w/ Anatolian Shepherds. I believe it began b/c Anatolians were hard to find and Great Pyreness were prevalent but their working ability was becoming watered down. The people were crossed these breeds were interested in working ability and wouldn't continue to do so if it weren't succesful. Most of these mixes are sold as working dogs (not pets). Hunters also use various mixes. I have no problem w/ that. Doodles on the other hand were supposedly created for service dogs, but I'm becoming skeptical of that. Like Locket said, Poodles can do service work and there are other low shedding breeds out there. Common sense says that mixing a low shedding breed w/ a very high shedding breed isn't going to get you very many low shedding puppies.
 

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We have a lot of Doodles in our community and I have spent the last 5+ years lurking on Doodle boards to monitor the Doodle breeding trend.

I think Doodles are a horrible combination. The mix of Poodle and Lab/Golden creates an athletic, impulsive dog that problem solves well but which has no internal shut-off mechanism. Over and over on the Doodle boards I hear about dogs that are very challenging to train. The don't take NO for an answer and they have the extended adolescence of the Retrievers. These dogs are Hell on wheels (nipping, jumping, chewing, pulling, counter surfing, running away etc) until they are about 3 yrs old and then they tend to get fat and lazy very quickly.

Also, I believe that Doodles have seriously unstable temperaments. I have NEVER, in any breed, seen such trouble with owner aggression and resource guarding as I have seen on the Doodle owner Internet forums.

Breeding these dogs does a huge disservice to pet owners. People looking for a non-shedding pet would be better off getting a Poodle which over-all has a much more complacent temperament.
 

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I personally do not care for doodles, If I wanted a hyper hairy slobber monster I would pen up my poodles till they had hairy faces and then feed them a bucket of skittles, but like I said...random things pop into my head.... I need another hobby. LOL
LMAO!!! That's hilarious!!

I can't speak for other purebred people, but I have to say my only issue with the doodles is the irresponsible breeding practices, especially the lies and misinformation. All breeds have to start somewhere, and the most logical place to start is a crossbreed that has certain desirable traits. Where they go wrong is in simply saying "good enough" and calling that crossbreed a finished product. What's worse, they tout their puppies as the answer to every dog problem.

Any breed claiming their dogs are problem free (no shedding, no behavior problems, little or no health issues) is creating irresponsible owners and setting the dogs up for failure. I personally feel that everyone needs to be made aware of how difficult, time-consuming, expensive, and heart-breaking it is to own a dog. Dogs end up at the pound by the thousands because people assume that owning a dog is as simple as feeding it daily.

We need to change the widely held belief that owning a dog is easy. If more people were aware of the actual responsibilities of a dog, people would think a lot harder before bringing one home, and fewer dogs would end up at the pound.
 

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My issue with doodles is that they are typically no longer being bred for a purpose other than MONEY. They were originally bred for service dog work (not sure why as poodles make amazing service dogs but whatever) and now I hardly see a stable enough doodle that could handle such a job.
It's also the lies and misconceptions about them being tossed about by unscrupulous doodle breeders that irks me. Do not lie about your "breed" to make it look better than a purebred poodle or a purebred golden. What are the true merits of the mix that justifies their breeding?

I have yet to see an ETHICAL doodle breeder.
forgive me for not citing proper sources (I'm posting from my phone, at work). But I do know why doodles were created rather than using poodles. The original Labradoodle was created in Australia when a company that breeds and trains service dogs received a request for a hypoallergenic seeing eye dog. I'm terribly sorry I've forgotten the name of the man in charge of this, but he immediately thought of Standard Poodles and assumed he would have no problem due to their high trainability. He then proceeded to start training several. And ended up putting over thirty Spoos through the training program and finding that almost none of them could be trained as reliable seeing eye dogs. That was when he realized he'd have to try something else, so he crossed his best-producing Lab with a promising poodle and proceeded to train the offspring as seeing eye dogs. He originally did not name the "breed" nor did he intend to start a trend.

Standard Poodles make fabulous service dogs in many, many areas, but for some reason don't possess the temperament to be a seeing eye dog.

I do believe the original lab-poodle crosses were created for the right reasons, and I'm glad. I just wish it hadn't become such a trend. Breeding a carefully bred Lab from a line of service dogs with a Poodle that has a known stable temperament is very different from breeding any random pet Lab with any random pet Poodle. Also, the breeders never tell anyone that these mixes are high energy, and have a strong drive to work. They would not have so many behavior problems if their dogs were properly exercised, trained, and given a job to do.
 

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I can see where crossbreeding SOME dogs would be benificial to introduce some new blood or fix cosmetic things that pose health risks (bullogs anyone?)

I heard that they at one time opened the studbooks in Dalmatians because of the deafness issues in the breed. (cant remember where I heard that)

in some cases it should be done IMO
I have seen where they did a cross between Boxers and Corgis to get naturally bobbed tails and they have even started crossing Clumbers and Cockers to better the Clumber but this is completely different then taking two breeds breeding them together and calling them something different.

I still don't believe the excuse of needing a no to low shed service dog because of allergies. How many blind or handicapped people have dog allergies?
 

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forgive me for not citing proper sources (I'm posting from my phone, at work). But I do know why doodles were created rather than using poodles. The original Labradoodle was created in Australia when a company that breeds and trains service dogs received a request for a hypoallergenic seeing eye dog. I'm terribly sorry I've forgotten the name of the man in charge of this, but he immediately thought of Standard Poodles and assumed he would have no problem due to their high trainability. He then proceeded to start training several. And ended up putting over thirty Spoos through the training program and finding that almost none of them could be trained as reliable seeing eye dogs. That was when he realized he'd have to try something else, so he crossed his best-producing Lab with a promising poodle and proceeded to train the offspring as seeing eye dogs. He originally did not name the "breed" nor did he intend to start a trend.

Standard Poodles make fabulous service dogs in many, many areas, but for some reason don't possess the temperament to be a seeing eye dog.

I do believe the original lab-poodle crosses were created for the right reasons, and I'm glad. I just wish it hadn't become such a trend. Breeding a carefully bred Lab from a line of service dogs with a Poodle that has a known stable temperament is very different from breeding any random pet Lab with any random pet Poodle. Also, the breeders never tell anyone that these mixes are high energy, and have a strong drive to work. They would not have so many behavior problems if their dogs were properly exercised, trained, and given a job to do.
Well put. They were very very careful about the first few labradoodles ever bred. If only it stayed this way, and as you said, didn't take off as such a trend. They should have never been made available for the general public.
 

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I have seen where they did a cross between Boxers and Corgis to get naturally bobbed tails and they have even started crossing Clumbers and Cockers to better the Clumber but this is completely different then taking two breeds breeding them together and calling them something different.

I still don't believe the excuse of needing a no to low shed service dog because of allergies. How many blind or handicapped people have dog allergies?
The same ratio as people without handicap with allergies, no doubt.:)
 

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forgive me for not citing proper sources (I'm posting from my phone, at work). But I do know why doodles were created rather than using poodles. The original Labradoodle was created in Australia when a company that breeds and trains service dogs received a request for a hypoallergenic seeing eye dog. I'm terribly sorry I've forgotten the name of the man in charge of this, but he immediately thought of Standard Poodles and assumed he would have no problem due to their high trainability. He then proceeded to start training several. And ended up putting over thirty Spoos through the training program and finding that almost none of them could be trained as reliable seeing eye dogs. That was when he realized he'd have to try something else, so he crossed his best-producing Lab with a promising poodle and proceeded to train the offspring as seeing eye dogs. He originally did not name the "breed" nor did he intend to start a trend.

Standard Poodles make fabulous service dogs in many, many areas, but for some reason don't possess the temperament to be a seeing eye dog.

I do believe the original lab-poodle crosses were created for the right reasons, and I'm glad. I just wish it hadn't become such a trend. Breeding a carefully bred Lab from a line of service dogs with a Poodle that has a known stable temperament is very different from breeding any random pet Lab with any random pet Poodle. Also, the breeders never tell anyone that these mixes are high energy, and have a strong drive to work. They would not have so many behavior problems if their dogs were properly exercised, trained, and given a job to do.
But, I believe the story ended, with it being a complete and utter flop, and they needed to rehome these dogs as pets, and someone coined up Labradoodle.

In our country, there is a place that breeds registered standard poodles as seeing eye dogs. I don't know how successful they are, but I met one of them that was still in training, with a blind person, and it was working well.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
We have a lot of Doodles in our community and I have spent the last 5+ years lurking on Doodle boards to monitor the Doodle breeding trend.

I think Doodles are a horrible combination. The mix of Poodle and Lab/Golden creates an athletic, impulsive dog that problem solves well but which has no internal shut-off mechanism. Over and over on the Doodle boards I hear about dogs that are very challenging to train. The don't take NO for an answer and they have the extended adolescence of the Retrievers. These dogs are Hell on wheels (nipping, jumping, chewing, pulling, counter surfing, running away etc) until they are about 3 yrs old and then they tend to get fat and lazy very quickly.

Also, I believe that Doodles have seriously unstable temperaments. I have NEVER, in any breed, seen such trouble with owner aggression and resource guarding as I have seen on the Doodle owner Internet forums.

Breeding these dogs does a huge disservice to pet owners. People looking for a non-shedding pet would be better off getting a Poodle which over-all has a much more complacent temperament.

Cbrand,
Do you think its the way the dogs were bred, or do you think its more about the type of people who like trendy new things, and want a trendy new breed of dog?

most doodle owners were inexperienced dog owners with no idea what goes into training and living with a dog.

then again alot of poorly bred labs I have seen have been crazy hyper as have some goldens


:doh:
 

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I have seen where they did a cross between Boxers and Corgis to get naturally bobbed tails and they have even started crossing Clumbers and Cockers to better the Clumber but this is completely different then taking two breeds breeding them together and calling them something different.

I still don't believe the excuse of needing a no to low shed service dog because of allergies. How many blind or handicapped people have dog allergies?
Even if the disabled person isn't alleric, service dogs are allowed to go all sorts of places where other people have allergies. Just b/c the handicapped person is allergy free, doesn't mean everyone they work with, shop with, etc is. You also have to take any family members into account.

As for the story about the Standard Poodles not working out as as Seeing Eye Dogs, I would love to know exactly what is so different about a Poodle than a Lab/Golden? Where did those particular Poodles come from? BYBs? The seeing eye dog programs in the states usually raise there own dogs b/c your average Lab can't do the job either. Why give up on Poodles and not "doodles"? Why would you put Poodle in the mix if so many failed in the first place? Why not Schnauzers or Airedales, etc? "Doodles" as seeing eye dogs were a flop too, how many seeing eye doodles do you see around? If they had worked out, they would be everywhere b/c like I said, people w/ disabilities take their dogs all sorts of places where allergies are an issue and dog hair is inconvienent.

I would also like to point out that grooming plays a big role in allergic reactions. If Labs/Goldens were groomed as often as your typical Poodle it would ease many allergic reactions. Instead they are probably bathed a few times a year and brushed infrequently.

I know the question was for Cbrand, but I do think many of the behavioral problems in "doodles" and other real) breeds are because their owners fail to educate themselves are just pick out something trendy or cute. You have to be seriously lacking in intelligence to pay thousands for a mutt, so how capable can you be of training a dog?
 

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I know here in Hawaii, there are a LOT of doodle service dogs, but that's because the service dog organization here breeds them.

http://www.hawaiifido.org/index.html

Of course, they have other dog breeds in their program also. They don't specifically do seeing-eye dogs. I know that their program really is good, for here in Hawaii, because otherwise it's nearly impossible to get service dogs to train in Hawaii, because of the quarantine.
 
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