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Discussion Starter #1
Hi I am new to this forum so forgive me if a similar question has been answered previously but I couldn't find anything while searching that was relating to my specific question. I have a miniature x toy poodle cross (mum was miniature and dad was toy). She is now 4 and a half months and I am not in the least bit worried about how big she will get. I did expect that because she is a cross between the two she would be sized somewhere in the middle although she does take after her mum more so probably stay on the miniature side more. At the moment she stands about 15 to 15 1/2 inches tall and weighs just over 6kg. According to size charts she is already at the highest end of a mini poodle height. I would expect that as she is still quiet young she has a lot more growing to do. I actually love that she is bigger so this is great for me. Is it strange that she is this height at this age seeing as she is part toy? If she is this tall now how tall would I expect her to be when fully grown? She seems to be heading towards the height of a medium poodle of which she is neither.
 

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She is very big for a mini/toy mix. I suspect Beckie is also a mini/toy mix and at 4 1/2 months she weighed less than 3kg and is 3.7 kg now as an adult. I wonder if the parents were mini/standard instead ?
 

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Is she really 15" at the shoulder? That's fairly light for that height. My 14.5" mini is 16 lbs (maybe 7 kg) and he's still fairly light framed.

When you mix varieties you are mixing a bunch of genes. It's not like there is one gene that controls size. It's a combination of many genes that work in different ways. Combining bigger and smaller varieties can have unexpected results because it's not a direct mixing of sizes. You're doing a novel combination of genes that could give you something unexpected. And if this breeder was breeding inter variety dogs... who knows what's in their background. There could easily be some standard back in their past.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
She was definitely born of a miniature mum and toy dad. I have the KC registration for the dad but mum came from American lines so I don't have anything for her apart from her clean bill of health (and dads). I did see the mum and she seemed like a normal size miniature but maybe she had some standard in her family history. The breeder owns both mum and dad. I measured my puppy from the floor to the shoulder blade (I assume this is correct) and its hard to be exact because of the wriggling but its around 15 to 15 1/2. I don't know if it was the first pairing or not. As I said before I am quite happy for her to be on the bigger side I was just wondering if I could work out her final height according to her current stats or is it hard to predict this? She is gorgeous regardless.
 

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I wonder why someone would cross breed between varieties. The three varieties are very well established - the breeding to reduce size was done nearly 100 years ago. When you cross varieties you can incorporate hereditary defects from both varieties.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I wonder why someone would cross breed between varieties. The three varieties are very well established - the breeding to reduce size was done nearly 100 years ago. When you cross varieties you can incorporate hereditary defects from both varieties.
I expect just to make money.
 

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It is not uncommon to breed between variaties in Europe. It depends on the country. In some places its frowned upon in others it doesnt matter. I have seen very good established show breeders do so in Europe. A 29cm miniature should not be drastically different from a 27cm toy. Breeders here go by individual dog rather than variety. So a 27cm toy will breed with a 29cm miniature if they have similar structures. But you wouldnt breed a 28cm miniature to a 40cm medium.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I'm thinking maybe there was a medium or standard along mum's line that maybe Winnie has picked up a gene from to determine her height. She has the hair and eye colouring of her dad but she was one of the larger ones in the litter, which comes from mum's side. Her dad was not a tiny toy so he was a decent size himself and only a bit smaller than her mum. It will be interesting to see what size she ends up.
 

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My goodness, she's adorable!

Somewhere around here is a poodle growth chart (you can also find on google images). It's easiest to read at 16 weeks or 20 weeks. Assuming she's nearly 20 weeks old, one would expect her to be about 50-60% of her adult weight and 73-83% of her adult height, topping out at around 10-12 kgs and 18-20". That's a wonderful size, but quite a surprise from the parents!

Was the litter registered?
 

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This is my go to chart for gauging average growth patterns for the three North American varieties. Weight is important only in gauging overall health.

If you have the dam's registry name and she was health tested by the OFA scheme, you can go here https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog
to look her up and backtrack thru her history if her ancestors were also tested.

For your purpose, this will just give you an idea of where your pup falls in the spectrum.

This info and chart from POODLE PUPPY GROWTH CHARTS

I dont hold a lot of stock in the size charts for poodles out there but I have gotten so many requests for them I decided to post some of the better ones here. Remember though, there are NO weight restrictions on poodles only height so really weight doesnt have a lot to do with the poodle.
Toys are 10 inches in height and under.
Miniatures are over 10 inches to 15 inches.
Standards are over 15 inches.

This by the breed standards for both AKC and UKC.
NOTE: A poodles height is measured from the ground up to the top of the withers (shoulder blades).


HEIGHT CHART FOR TOY POODLES


AGE IN WEEKSHEIGHT IN INCHES
5 WEEKS5 INCHES

8 WEEKS

6 INCHES
12 WEEKS
7 INCHES
16 WEEKS
8 INCHES

20 WEEKS

9 INCHES

24 WEEKS

10 INCHES

Toy poodles are usually finished growing in height at 6-7 months although it may take them a bit longer to fill out.


Here is another height chart for toy poodles.

AGE IN WEEKSHEIGHT IN INCHES
8 WEEKS5 3/4 INCHES
12 WEEKS6 3/4 INCHES
6 MONTHS9 3/4 INCHES


HEIGHT CHART FOR MINIATURE POODLES

AGE IN MONTHSHEIGHT IN INCHES
8 WEEKS8 - 8.5 INCHES
3 MONTHS10 - 10.5 INCHES
4 MONTHS11 - 11.5 INCHES
6 MONTHS13.5 - 14 INCHES

Some miniature poodles will take up to 12 months to finish growing. Some will finish growing in height around 6-7 months but may take a bit longer to fill out.


HEIGHT CHART FOR STANDARD POODLES

AGE IN MONTHSHEIGHT IN INCHES
8 WEEKS12 - 13 INCHES
3 MONTHS14 INCHES
4 MONTHS18-19 INCHES
6 MONTHS21+ INCHES
FULL GROWN (USUALLY 24 MONTHS)24-27 INCHES

Standard poodles can take up to 2 years to finish growing and filling out.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
My goodness, she's adorable!

Somewhere around here is a poodle growth chart (you can also find on google images). It's easiest to read at 16 weeks or 20 weeks. Assuming she's nearly 20 weeks old, one would expect her to be about 50-60% of her adult weight and 73-83% of her adult height, topping out at around 10-12 kgs and 18-20". That's a wonderful size, but quite a surprise from the parents!

Was the litter registered?
No, she was a hobby breeder who has been doing it for about 10 years but not registered.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is my go to chart for gauging average growth patterns for the three North American varieties. Weight is important only in gauging overall health.

If you have the dam's registry name and she was health tested by the OFA scheme, you can go here https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog
to look her up and backtrack thru her history if her ancestors were also tested.

For your purpose, this will just give you an idea of where your pup falls in the spectrum.

This info and chart from POODLE PUPPY GROWTH CHARTS

I dont hold a lot of stock in the size charts for poodles out there but I have gotten so many requests for them I decided to post some of the better ones here. Remember though, there are NO weight restrictions on poodles only height so really weight doesnt have a lot to do with the poodle.
Toys are 10 inches in height and under.
Miniatures are over 10 inches to 15 inches.
Standards are over 15 inches.

This by the breed standards for both AKC and UKC.
NOTE: A poodles height is measured from the ground up to the top of the withers (shoulder blades).


HEIGHT CHART FOR TOY POODLES


AGE IN WEEKSHEIGHT IN INCHES
5 WEEKS5 INCHES

8 WEEKS

6 INCHES
12 WEEKS
7 INCHES
16 WEEKS
8 INCHES

20 WEEKS

9 INCHES

24 WEEKS

10 INCHES

Toy poodles are usually finished growing in height at 6-7 months although it may take them a bit longer to fill out.


Here is another height chart for toy poodles.

AGE IN WEEKSHEIGHT IN INCHES
8 WEEKS5 3/4 INCHES
12 WEEKS6 3/4 INCHES
6 MONTHS9 3/4 INCHES


HEIGHT CHART FOR MINIATURE POODLES

AGE IN MONTHSHEIGHT IN INCHES
8 WEEKS8 - 8.5 INCHES
3 MONTHS10 - 10.5 INCHES
4 MONTHS11 - 11.5 INCHES
6 MONTHS13.5 - 14 INCHES

Some miniature poodles will take up to 12 months to finish growing. Some will finish growing in height around 6-7 months but may take a bit longer to fill out.


HEIGHT CHART FOR STANDARD POODLES

AGE IN MONTHSHEIGHT IN INCHES
8 WEEKS12 - 13 INCHES
3 MONTHS14 INCHES
4 MONTHS18-19 INCHES
6 MONTHS21+ INCHES
FULL GROWN (USUALLY 24 MONTHS)24-27 INCHES

Standard poodles can take up to 2 years to finish growing and filling out.
Thanks I will see if I can find anything.
 

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No, she was a hobby breeder who has been doing it for about 10 years but not registered.
Whatever the solution to this mystery, she's adorable. I hope you can manage with her size and that you have many happy, loving years together.
 

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Whatever the solution to this mystery, she's adorable. I hope you can manage with her size and that you have many happy, loving years together.
Thank you. Yes we are actually very happy that she is bigger than expected. She is so lovely in every way, we adore her. Our previous dog was a GSD/Lab mix and was with us for over 16 years. She was an angel.
 
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