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Discussion Starter #1
After seeing that gorgeous phantom Spoo who is going to live in Saskatoon, I was messing around on the Internet and I found this breeder, who is also in Saskatoon - not far from where I live.

Nursery

I am waiting to get my black Mini in July, so really I am not in the market for another puppy, but I would really love my next (!!) one to be a phantom. This is a little girl phantom she has for sale right now.

I am wondering what you think of her dogs. They look nice to me, but I don't know much about poodles at all. There is another breeder I found in Saskatoon, and I don't like the eyes on her poodles. Maybe its the brown pigment on a brown but these puppies have nice eyes. I am really fussy about eyes on any breed - ugly eyes are not acceptable to me!

I did notice her male is 16 inches tall, but if she has another litter, an oversized puppy wouldn't bother me because I am only interested in obedience and agility.

She doesn't have any information about health testing. That is a drawback.
 

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I am NOT a fan of Partis but really liked that other Phantom Mini puppy whose owner recently joined this board. It was pretty much the nicest Phantom I've ever seen. I think the thing that made it so spectacular was the fact that the Phantom pattern was clear and distinct and that the color was a rich russet brown.

I'm not loving the Phantom girl you posted because like too many Phantoms I see, I think her color looks a bit muddy. If you want a Phantom Mini, I'd find out where that other Mini came from and get on a list.
 

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I love my phantom! He is an awesome dog...sometimes his awesomeness is to awesome :) I think the little girl is cute but I would like to see her color be more defined. I really love the rust markings to be a deep rich rust color.

Cbrand - are you talking about my phantom? I don't want to be to "full" of myself but i haven't seen any other phantoms here. Ranger8[1]2 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes. I see what you mean. The colour of Ranger is a lot brighter and the two colours are more distinct.

Who is Ranger's breeder? Can you predict a phantom or is it just something you get sometimes? I am not a fan of partis either. But I really like the black and tan colouring.
 

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twenjen70--what an ADORABLE phantom mini you have!! Ranger sure is a head turner. I just think he's the sharpest looking little dude!!
 

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I bought Ranger from a breeder in NC. I would think that if you know your pedigrees you should be able to predict wether or not you will have a chance of getting phantoms in a litter. I'm not a poodle breeder though so I could be wrong. I am a breeder of Miniature Pinschers and the black/rust color is my favorite...which is probably why I went with the black/rust phantom poodle.

Even in Min Pins the black/rust color is hard to get, well...not really hard to get...I should say a quality black/rust is hard to get. When a breeder (including myself) has a gorgeous black/rust puppy you can't pry it from them! Don't get me wrong there are tons of black/rusts dogs out there but red is predominant in the show ring. You do see blacks in the ring but not as often.

I'm sure someone that knows about poodle color genetics will come along and answer your question for you. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The lady who bred my mini poodle also breeds and shows min pins. Hers are all red. There are two non-show minpins in my agilty class and they are the black and tan ones and I think they are much much showier.
 

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The lady who bred my mini poodle also breeds and shows min pins. Hers are all red. There are two non-show minpins in my agilty class and they are the black and tan ones and I think they are much much showier.
Wow! Small world! I love my min pins too but my Poodle has really stolen my heart with his antics!
 

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That is a nice phantom! I find the camparisons to Dobies and Min Pins amusing b/c I have a Rottie and often don't like the coloring of phantoms. So many have "straw" colored markings which is a fault per the Rottie standard.
 

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I will say this though.... no matter how pretty the dog or how cool the patterning, color should never cloud a buyer's judgment. If a breeder does not test, or if they have poor breeding practices, a buyer would do well to look for a puppy elsewhere.

No color in the world can make up for a Mini who goes blind at age 5 from the oh so avoidable prcd-PRA! Buyers can affect change in the breeding world if they would just vote with their dollars!
 

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I will say this though.... no matter how pretty the dog or how cool the patterning, color should never cloud a buyer's judgment. If a breeder does not test, or if they have poor breeding practices, a buyer would do well to look for a puppy elsewhere.

No color in the world can make up for a Mini who goes blind at age 5 from the oh so avoidable prcd-PRA! Buyers can affect change in the breeding world if they would just vote with their dollars!
I agree 100%! Rangers parents are tested and passed. My other Poodle Morgan is also tested (passed/clear). Here he is:

Morgan on Flickr - Photo Sharing!
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yes, that is why I commented that the website near here with the phantom puppy, doesn't even mention health testing. I wouldn't consider a puppy, however cute, without health testing.

Well, I would take that little shih-tzu without any testing if they said they were sending her to the humane society.
 

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Whichever breeder you go with, I'd contact them to ask about what health testing they do. Some breeders, for whatever reason, don't put that info online. If the dogs are certified with OFA, you can find that info yourself by using the dogs' registered names on the site. But other testing for breed specific issues you'll have to ask.

If I went strictly on the website, I'd have run fleeing from my Chow's breeder's website;) It's outdated, doesn't have current dog info, and has no health testing info. Thankfully, I'd done research before I even saw the website, so I had already looked up the health test results and established contact. A good thing, as I have a great dog who is exactly what we wanted :)

So, when you do find a breeder you want to look into, look beyond the website and make decisions based on firsthand contact
 

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That is a nice phantom! I find the camparisons to Dobies and Min Pins amusing b/c I have a Rottie and often don't like the coloring of phantoms. So many have "straw" colored markings which is a fault per the Rottie standard.
Thank you!

I can't even stand to hear someone tell me they want "one of those black and tan min pins"...that just urks me. I don't like the color to be washed out looking...even though tan markings is not a fault in min pins. I prefer dark rich rust markings.
 

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Purley, do you know which testing is usually done for Tzus? There are another breed I like, b/c of the sturdy size/build and variety of color. From the small amount of research I've done, it seems that kidney issues are the biggest concern. I have no idea if they have any testing for it. I've heard talk of liver shunts, but I believe that is mainly is the undersized "teacup/imperial" dogs. (All the more reason not to breed them outside the standard, IMO.)
 
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