Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and working on getting my first dog ever, after wanting one for about 40 years. I've chosen a poodle for a variety of reasons and am struggling between the mini and standard. I'd love your input, if you have anything...
I'm active- walking, hiking, biking, kayaking, paddleboarding, swimming (mostly playing in the water rather than swimming 5 miles). The pup would be my pal for as many of these activities as possible. By walking, I mean 3 miles on an easy walk. If I'm feeling lazy. Hiking may be all day, but certainly a couple hours. I'd be so happy if my poodle could go on my paddleboard or kayak with me! Playing fetch is a must. Can a standard and a mini handle all that? From what I've read, a standard could do the long hikes and walks but the mini would be better for the boating. So I'm stuck.
Both could handle all your activities, but I'd recommend a mini simply due to the portability. My standard puppy, who comes from a 35 pound dam, is now 65 pounds. I don't think I could lift him back into the boat if he went over the side. I certainly couldn't carry him back to the camp if he injured himself. My 50 pound standard is at my limit.
We used to take a spoo trail riding with the horses. He could go 10 miles and be up for a game of fetch when we got home. My boys Pogo, Snarky, and Galen would all have been capable of the same with appropriate conditioning. Big puppy Ritter has a heavier frame, plus he is lazy and disinclined to exercise, so I suspect he would suffer if I attempted to take him on long outings.
My mini goes kayaking with me and loves hiking. He could probably hike all day. His stamina doesn't seen any different from big dogs. So I think a mini would be good.
I second a mini for portability and easier post-adventure clean-up, but I feel better having our spoo on hikes, just because of all the big predators around here. Depending on where you live, this may be less of a concern.
Welcome! Since you mention this is your first dog, I'm sharing info posted here by others.
You sound like you have tons of fun adventures to offer your Poodle 😊. Young and even adolescent puppies can safely do walks or hikes like that once their bones and joints finish growing. They need time to build up to such distances on forced walks once they do mature. That's where you are set on going a specific distance, as opposed to ambling sniffy walks. Watch out for vets insisting on early spay or neuter, too, for the same reason.
Not discouraging you whatsoever, just offering a managing expectations tip. I am sure you will get a wonderful Poodle, whichever variety you choose.
I'm also not at all wanting to discourage you but to offer a reality base so you're prepared.
Poodles are amazing dogs but they're not necessarily easy. It may be good that you'll be a first time dog owner since you won't be comparing to other breeds or other dogs but you are going to wonder at times just who's training who .
Poodles mature late emotionally so it's not unusual for them to take a while to settle down. Spoos can present real physical challenges for some folks until they learn acceptable behavior and how to live in the human world. Mpoos are less of a physical challenge due to their smaller size. (i.e. no countersurfing, see below)
People probably choose spoos more often when they have an active lifestyle, but mpoos will be up to quite a lot. It may be just that standards are easier to find because of bigger litters.
There are other practical reasons relating to size that might play in, HOA restrictions, house vs apartment, travel, grooming and food costs, etc.
It will be very important to select a breeder who does the proper health testing for the variety you choose. Neither variety is "unhealthy" but each have known issues so the testing of the dam and sire will help to give you both some "insurance" toward the best of life.
There's a lot of additional good info on that site.
As mentioned, it's very important not to over-exercise growing poodles to avoid orthopedic issues later. Spoos would benefit from eating large breed puppy food for their first year or so to actually slow down growth.
Countersurfing - With an opposable thumb, they might just conquer the world .
My family had two lovely dogs when I was quite young but when a miniature poodle entered our lives, I knew that poodles were my dog of choice.
"Poodles are Labs with a college education. My Poodle will do anything your Labrador will do. After a day of retrieving in the field, your Lab wants to curl up and snore in front of the fire. My Poodle wants to be a fourth at bridge and tell naughty stories."
Anne Rogers Clark, the famous handler, all breed judge and Poodle breeder.
I also would suggest you go for a mini. I love my standard, but the portability of my smaller dog can't be beat. Portability is especially important if you're taking the dog on the water. Not all poodles are big on swimming, a smaller dog is easier to rescue.
We have a Standard who will be 3 next month and a mini poo puppy who is almost 4 months.
I have very little experience with minis but the one thing I can tell that will be WAY easier than a Standard is portability. I absolutely could not carry our Standard who is 60 pounds. Enough said as others have explained.😊 I don’t know about stamina as we are new to the mini scene but my understanding is that minis can do a lot of things!
I know some Standards can be full of energy from morning time night but our Bobby does not have that kind of energy. Not sure if it’s just him or because we aren’t a super high energy household or both. He gets exercised, of course and as a pup he had normal puppy energy but he is more of a dog who will have spurts of energy then he will relax or snooze.
He loves adventures but I don’t think he would like to go all day. Our walks aren’t miles long because he actually wants to come home. He’s never been one for extended long walks.
In looking at dog choice everything is bigger and more work with a Spoo. I love grooming Bobby but I can see already that grooming a mini will be way easier. A mini can be lifted on the table and a Spoo cannot. I have a ramp for Bobby to get on the table. I won’t need that for our mini, Joey. 😉 Counter surfing? My Bobby is a master.
Walking? Bobby is an excellent walker but the learning process for us was hard as he is strong. He is an amazing dog with a wonderful character and other Standards I have met have been lovely dogs. And standards do take longer to mature. Not trying to talk you out of a Standard as they are wonderful dogs but sharing a bit of Standard reality.😊
I would say, for the things you want to do with your poodle, a mini might be the best choice.
If the other furparents with mpoos say they're up for it physically, then I would go in that direction first.
I was (past tense lol) as active as you prior to a spoo puppy and there's a lot of unlearning and relearning what physical capacity a puppy has... Low intensity "training" is our sweet spot now with 42#, female, Basil.
That being said, our other Spoo, Earl, female, 54# friend is an REI super furmom. They walk 3+ miles of Seattle hills on the daily. Her girl can run laps on Basil physically.
While I have zero regrets about Basil, I would shoot for a Mpoo first because size is easier.
Thank you all. A new question that arose... will the dog be ruining/scratching up our hardwood floors? I'm trying to think of anything that might surprise us, knowing full well there will be 100 more surprises. I did not know about counter surfing. But glad the poodle will be learning to play bridge with us 😆.
Maybe, it’s all in how you train and manage the puppy— but also once you get a puppy you’ll probably want to cover up your wood floors anyway for safety. Puppies are fast and clumsy, and slide along on wood floors. A puppy with zoomies could sprain or break a leg whilst running around on slick grounding. In my house this is remedied with gym flooring and rugs. Also though because poodles walk practically on air, up on the tips of their toes, you’ll need to keep the nails very short probably with a dremel which has the added benefit of keeping them blunt rather than sharp.
My mini's nails are trimmed every week and don't touch the ground when standing but they still make clicks on the tile when he walks. Not an issue because it is not with enough pressure to scratch floors. However playing tug or other vigorous games might be able to make some very slight scratches depending on the type of floor. My mom has wood floors and bigger dogs certainly can scratch it while playing. But such is life. My mom gave up on trying to keep it pristine.
For paddleboarding or kayaking a mini would better. I would LOVE to take my spoo with me on my kayak but it just doesn't work even with the 14 ft kayak. No where to fit her. Our Yorkie (very oversized, size of a small mini poo) fits effortlessly in the cockpit or one of the hatches. My spoo loves canoeing though!
I had a probably 3/4 poodle mini mix as a kid. She went on 3 walks per day and would run for hours at the cottage on vacation chasing things. I doubt you will be able to out exercise a mini with casual exercise. She didn't run beside my bike
- she had a basket on the back of the bike and hung out there.
Once you've decided on which of the two sizes you will get and choose your breeder, be sure to let them know just how active you are. That was important for me when I was getting my poodle. I wanted a dog that would be able to keep up on hikes, walks, etc. My breeder chose the puppy based on what I told her I was looking for in a toy. He is only 4 lbs but he is like the energizer bunny. He loves walks, hikes, boating and I can put him on the front of a paddleboard without his weight throwing me off. I would go with a mini.
Dogs will slip on bare floors if they have fur growing on the bottom of their paws. If you keep that hair cut your dog shouldn't slip. I would keep a rug on the areas that get the most traffic from the dog. For us, that is the top of the stairs. I love laminated floors, the dogs can't damage them.
A dog won't necessarily counter surf. Put a gate up a the kitchen entrance so the puppy doesn't go in there on his own and learn bad habits. I had one rescue that counter surfed (problem with being starved- he was a good boy) so I put aluminum foil on the edges of the counters. Dogs hate that.
Three enjoyable, easy to read, wonderful books that will help forestall surprises:
Ian Dunbar's Before You Get Your Puppy and After You Get Your Puppy, and Jean Donaldson's Culture Clash.
Then and I need to go find someone's post to link so will edit in a bit, plus look into Crate Games.
Hopefully I got the correct link. This should be a post by Fjm linking a crucial article for new Puppy owners to take on board:
I am picking up my little black beauty tomorrow. Any advice for her first night? She is 15 weeks. She has been sleeping in a crate at the breeder but always with her mother and sister.
If you find yourself leaning towards minis, there's always a possibility of a bonus. When contacting breeders, you might ask how often their pups go oversize. Sizing of miniatures in the Poodle Club of America's breed standard are from 10"-15" at the shoulder. Most will run to the higher end, 13"-15" but it's not so unusual for them to go oversize, genetics being occasional pranksters. We have several members who's mpoos are over 15". They are still miniatures so long as born of miniature parents.
I'm 5'3", my husband is 5'9". I'm going to add a few everyday photos so you can get a sense of in-size miniatures relative to humans.
Neo (black) is about 14" and 14-15lb. Remo is about 13" and 12-13lbs
Thank you, Rose n Poos! What everyone is saying has been really helpful; I've been searching for photos with people or furniture to compare, so this is great. 10-15 lbs and inches seems/seemed so small...
Standard owners, oversize mini owners, would you mind adding some poodle in your arms or on laps photos to aid in the comparison?
The breed standard starts at 15" for standards but the reality is 20"-21" is unusual and at the petite end. 24" and up is much more likely because most of the quality breeders also show in conformation AKC or UKC to prove that their dogs meet the breed standard. Judges seem to prefer that midsize.
While there's no top end for standards in the North American registries, moving over probably 27" is sometimes done by breeders going for marketing trends, using terms like Giant or Royal. Their focus is often breeding for size, rather than health and diversity.
Until some additional photos appear, imagine 10" more in height on my guys, and 35-45lbs. Poodles height is in their legs, and those legs are looong .
In my experience, it’s best to relax your attachment to material things when you bring a dog into the house. They’re going to do some damage, and it’s not their fault.
Our spoo is not destructive compared to other dogs I’ve known and loved, nor is she a counter surfer, but here are our freshly painted kitchen cabinets.
Thank you so much. I've been in touch with someone at Poodles Club of America and she said that minis are not nearly as much water dogs as standards. She also said for my interests I should definitely get a standard, and there's a1-2 year waiting period on minis. :/. Perhaps I should ask the Breeder if the parents like water? Silly me, I thought all of this would be more straightforward!
Some breeders may have a 1-2 year waiting list. Others may not. Some breeders don't keep long lists like that. Depends on the breeder. I would try to contact them individually to ask.
I would say in general a standard may be more likely to enjoy swimming but plenty of minis do as well. You can find minis titled in dock diving. Mine does not like to swim like a lab. He loves to play in shallow water. He will play in the beach water if he is following humans or other dogs. But he prefers not to actually swim. I like it because he isn't diving into ponds all the time like retrievers do. Keeps him cleaner. It has no impact on things like kayaking because that does not involve swimming and is more about being ok with moving ground surfaces.
My standard is my service dog and he is so helpful to me. Mine is 50lb & 6 years old and in an emergency, I can handle him. I know others have minis as a good fit for you - but I feel a small standard might work for you as well. For my boy
I am always training him. For us that is a good thing.
Annie (standard) is also not a water dog, despite me trying desperately to teach her to swim. Our mini mix was actually more water motivated, she would walk until her ears floated in to cool off in the summer, and loved chasing frogs on the river edge. So I wouldn't go with a standard just because of the water thing!
This is a screen grab from yesterday's training session. For size reference, I'm 5'6. Simon is 24" tall and a very lean (bordering on thin) 40 pounds at eight months.
He is only 5 pounds heavier than my pibble, despite the fact that he towers over her by five inches. Then again, the pibble is a cannonball.
My standard is not a swimmer, he will wade if prompted but will avoid entering the water as long as possible. I've taken him to rock hop at a low stream and while he enjoys the experience he very much would prefer to avoid the stretches of water that require him to get his legs wet. Unfortunately we mad humans decided to go straight down the middle so he had to follow.
I think it's hit or miss whether any poodle will instinctively enjoy the water and is something you train for like everything else. Yeah you can get one more likely to enjoy the water if there's a consistent history of loving water in the family, but you're still rolling the dice. I've heard poodles are more wading dogs than swimmers anyway.
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