Poodle Forum banner

Looking to buy a teacup multi-poo

11K views 67 replies 22 participants last post by  For Want of Poodle 
#1 ·
Hi Everyone,

Just wanted to introduce myself. I actually don’t own a Poodle yet but we’ve been looking to buy a Teacup Multi-poo and have been venturing down a rabbit hole. We’ve found a few online but they seem very sketchy. One said that the puppy is coming from South Korea another asked me for visa a walmart gift card lol. I hope you can help. My daughter is looking for a little companion and right now the internet seems ripe with scammers for these puppies.

I live in Toronto, Ontario and would like a breeder that is local and reputable.

Thanks in advance,
Jim
 
#2 ·
Multi-poo? Do you mean a Maltese/poodle mix? You won’t find a reputable breeder for such a dog. They simply don’t exist because no reputable breeder purposefully breeds mixed breed dogs. I would definitely avoid buying a puppy online. Have you looked at rescues in your area? They always have mixed breed dogs available to adopt.

Also, in case you haven’t come across it in your research yet, teacup poodles are not a thing, and again, no reputable breeder would breed a teacup poodle. The sizes are toy, mini, and standard. Someone with more knowledge than me will have to inform me if Canada also includes the Moyen size.
 
#3 ·
You would probably have best luck aiming for pure Maltese or pure Poodle, whichever breed is your preference. Top notch breeders are generally looking to produce the next generation of really nice puppies within their chosen breed. Crossbreds are incompatible with that goal, so you will rarely find a crossbred coming out of a really good breeder's kennel.

I think a lot of casual pet owners mistakenly think toys and teacups are the same thing. A teacup is actually the small end of the toy size. It's not an official classification, but everyone knows what it means. A top notch breeder would never deliberately aim for teacup size, because the chances of health problems increase as the size gets smaller. So, a top notch breeder is going to aim to produce a good healthy dog within the sweet spot of the toy guidelines. So, look for toy and avoid teacup.
 
#5 ·
Welcome! I agree that your search parameters are going to inevitably lead you to greeders and scammers.

What specifically is your daughter looking for in a companion? How old is she and what sort of dog experience does she have? Will someone be at home during the day? What sort of activities would she like to do with her dog?

I would recommend getting your criteria nailed down and then choosing either a toy poodle or a Maltese—whichever would be a better fit. At that point you can start looking for a breeder that does appropriate health testing on the parents, is passionate about their breed, and isn’t simply looking to get their hands on your money.
 
#9 ·
Hi PeggyTheParti, she’s 8 so I’ll be the one looking after the dog primarily. That’s why I wanted a German Shepard. I’ve always loved that breed. I feel it will be too big for my daughter to handle. So we went down the rabbit hole of searching for dogs. I don’t want to make such a big commitment without thoroughly researching the breed. Came across those multese/poodle mixes and she fell in love and I caved. I can tell from my interaction with some of these breeders that I’d have a better chance getting the prince of Nigeria’s money over receiving my tea cup. I do like the Maltese frise also
 
#11 ·
There are many lovely small companion dogs. Poodles are, of course, the best :), but it's well worth checking out some of the other small breeds such as Bichon Frise, Maltese, Shih Tzu, Papillon, Havanese, etc. The Canadian Kennel Club has some resources: The Puppy List
Thanks Cowpony, I’ll look into those breeds as well. Appreciate all the help. You guys are a very active group good to see :)
 
#13 ·
I'm not a huge fan of letting kids chose breeds.

Consider maybe a slightly larger dog than a toy, which I think are pretty fragile. Perhaps a mini poodle (15-20 lbs)? You could get a white one for a similar look to a maltipoo. Small enough your daughter can handle it, but a bit sturdier for adventures.

I suggest looking at the pinned posts at the top of this subforim here Finding the Right Puppy & Breeder

One member has made a list of breeders who appear reputable, and there are Ontario listings. Of course,do your due diligence. See here:

 
#15 ·
I had a toy poodle when my girls were young and it was the right choice for us. My daughters were very gentle, well behaved and not very boisterous . However a toy poodle or other small dog is the wrong size for many children who are more boisterous or loud etc. it’s important to be honest about what kind of child your daughter is in choosing the size and breed of dog.

I hope you plan to include your daughter in training your puppy. I teach dog sports and I’ve had several children train. It was a joy to watch them with their dogs.
 
#16 ·
We only have one right now. May have another child we’ll see. She’s a quiet and well behaved kid. That said she’ll help take care of the dog but “ daddy had to pick up the poo” so I’m okay with that lol. Girls tend to be better with dogs than young boys. My brother terrorized my poor cat when I was younger poor thing :( but it would get some good scratched in so all good :) We’ve been watching youtube training videos and my sister has 2 German Shepard husky mixes. So she’s been around large dogs also and been good with them.
 
#17 ·
Something to consider about small toys is that some are prone to hypoglycemia. Many reputable toy breeders won't sell a toy puppy before 10-12 weeks for this reason, and even afterwards it is important to watch the dog for symptoms.

When I was a kid I had two dogs in the the 14" range. It was a perfect size for me. The dogs were large enough to handle stairs, jumping off furniture, and lots of playing with me. They were small enough I could walk them myself and lift them into the car if needed.
 
#18 ·
Do you spend a lot of time with your sister and her dogs? If so, I’d lean towards a larger, sturdier breed. The risk of accidental injury would be too high. A larger mini maybe, or a standard poodle.

I’d also consider your approach to training. What sort of videos are resonating with you? Poodles are sensitive, intelligent dogs, who require a steady but gentle hand. Your preferred training style might help lead you to the right breed for your family.
 
#20 ·
My sister recommend Zak George on YouTube I’ve been watching him and like his methods. Now with COVID we don’t see her that much. We do get together often, in the summer primarily. I agree this god will be mine probably in her teenage years. That’s why I was leaning toward the Shepherd :) wife doesn’t want a big dog in the house.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Hi and Welcome to PF!

The thing to remember about cross breeds is that cross breeds started with purebreds. That doesn't necessarily mean well bred.

Conscientious breeders are always working to improve the breed they focus on in their program. They will not knowingly allow any pups they've worked so hard to bring the best qualities to, to be sold out to someone who's mixing breeds. This is why you'll see few well bred dogs of either cross in the mix.

Then there's the matter of health. Every purebred has a set of known heritable conditions which means that proper testing by breed and variety should be, and is done, by conscientious breeders to try to remove those conditions from their line and future dogs.

Cross breeding complicates matters by increasing the potential heritable conditions to those of each breed. Cross breeders aren't usually doing testing.

To top things, they typically charge as much or more for their puppies as a breeder who's invested time and money to bring the best possible example of the breed they love to life.

Here's some tips for you in researching and finding a conscientious breeder. Where it says "poodle" just substitute your preferred breed.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Read any available contracts very carefully. Is the breeder ruling out coverage for health issues that the parents could have been tested for?

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021-2022. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".

An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my personal criteria (I have another more detailed but just this for now):

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come. Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


The Breeder List isn't a complete list so be sure to look at the Multi listings too. Every name on the list has been recommended by a PF member or several, or I have found them by searching thru websites for breeders that the recommended breeder also recommends. Then I went to every website and/or the OFA site and/or a general internet search to verify any health testing done. I only did this initially, before adding them to the list. It's up to the seeker to verify the breeders current standing.

Definitely use the Poodle Clubs for breeder referral too.

-----------

In my life, the miniature poodle was our Goldilocks "just right". We'd had a beautiful boxer who was just too big for my 18m old little brother, a wonderful somekindofterrier who was just too much of a terrier for our family, then when I was 10 and my brother was 7, the most amazing dog came into our lives, a miniature poodle we named Mimi. It's been poodles forever since then for me. Even my non-dog loving husband became a convert.

When it was time to add to our family again, he said "let's take two". Twice :)

(not recommended for novices or the faint of heart, fyi)
 
#24 ·
If you like herdy-type dogs, but want a smaller package, there are several options I can think of, including Pembroke and Cardigan Corgi, Swedish Valhund, Norwegian Buhund, and Icelandic Sheepdog. All smaller than a GSD, but all sturdy dogs that can take a fair amount of rough and tumble.
 
#25 ·
A child will adore and love any puppy they are given even if it’s not the one they had in mind. I can’t imagine any child being disappointed when they are holding the actual dog. I think there are some households that can manage tiny dogs even with children, and some that can’t. I have girls and they have been raised to be extremely gentle. I’m a stay at home mom, and am always supervising. Only you know if your household can manage the needs of a toy dog. Miniature poodles are still small, and very cute if you wanted something in between. Poodles are excellent dogs and great with kids in my opinion. It was one of the things that drew me to the breed in the first place. I always say we should have named my standard Nana because she stays with the children like a nanny. When they are playing outside she just wants to follow them around, and when they are playing in their rooms she just wants to lay on the floor beside them. Poodles are smart so they would be easier to train than some other breeds in my opinion. They don’t shed, they are hypoallergenic and they don’t have the typical doggy smell. Most poodles have a decent life span. And the teddy bear look your daughter fell in love with is completely possible with a poodle. It doesn’t need to be mixed with another breed to get it. They have so many colors too, black, white, silver, red, apricot, cream, brown, and even more.
 
#26 ·
The claim that there is no good breeders of cross bred dogs is a false claim. I know many people that do the recommended testing on all breeding dogs. Provide all proper documentation for their puppies. I know a few people of CKC registered dogs and I wouldn’t cross the street to get one free. A piece of paper doesn’t mean anything if the dogs got issues. I don’t know what your children are like? A sensitive breed like Toy Poodle or Maltese might not be the best breed. Also stay away from anything called Tea cup. Many times they have health issues.
 
#27 ·
The claim that there is no good breeders of cross bred dogs is a false claim
I've read back thru the posts here and not finding that anyone said "none". "Few" has been mentioned.
Part of the difficulty in being accounted as a conscientious breeder when cross breeding is because there is no breed standard to be met. Simply mixing two (or more) different purebred dogs doesn't create a breed. Creating a reliably genetically reproducible breed takes many generations of careful husbandry.There is a group, the AALA, trying to do that. https://alaa-labradoodles.com/https://alaa-labradoodles.com/

I know many people that do the recommended testing on all breeding dogs.
Proper testing for breed and variety are a start and an indicator but is not the single identifier of a conscientious breeder.

Provide all proper documentation for their puppies.
I'm not clear what documentation on puppies you could be referring to. If the puppy is a cross it can't be registered with a purebred registry such as the AKC or Canadian Kennel Club because it's not a purebred so there is no documentation there to be had.

Puppies aren't phenotype or genotype tested for OFA level testing so there is no documentation there to be had.

They should be vet checked and given appropriate preventatives. That documentation should be provided.


I know a few people of CKC registered dogs and I wouldn’t cross the street to get one free.
We agree here.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.
Also stay away from anything called Tea cup. Many times they have health issues.
Agreed here as well
 
#30 ·
Thanks again, you have all given me a lot of insight and help to make an educated decision. I will be looking for something more sturdier. While I know my daughter will be gentle with it the last thing I need is our first puppy to have health issues or be breaking bones. I want my daughter to have a fun companion that she can play with. While knowing full well I'll be the primary caregiver and owner of the dog later. I'll take a closer look at a standard poodle and some of the other medium sized breed mentioned up to 30lbs. Or try and sneak in a shepherd and deal with the unhappy wife/ life scenario hahahah. Thanks again everyone and I'll post an update when my new family member shows up. I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions. I'm very happy I found this forum.
 
#32 ·
Jimmy I have miniature poodles right now. For gentle children they are a good choice because they are sturdier than toys but don’t take up as much room as standards. They are athletic and enjoy hikes, romps at the beach and take only one car seat in the car. Consider both miniature and standard poodles in your consideration.

Darling Darla mentioned Moyen, also known as medium or Klein sized poodles. This is a size not recognized in the USA or Canada and therefore are often used as a marketing term by unethical breeders. In some 98 countries , mostly in Europe they belong to the FCI (like our AKC) and they have 4 sizes of poodle. Moyens are a category that has larger minipoos and smaller spoos. My AKC minipoo would be a Moyen size in FCI. There’s only a handful of breeders in the States breeding quality Moyen size from imported FCI parents.
 
#34 ·
Improve them how? Why? Most miniature poodles from good kennels are sturdy, healthy, active dogs. They are easy to train, clean, do not shed (not quite true - you do have to brush out the dog at least once a week to get rid of hair that has been shed - but it's not like dogs that shed hair all over the floor and furniture!)

The "moyen" size is not recognized by either the CKC or the AKC. These are simply oversize miniatures or undersize standards! Great pets, just not appropriate for the show ring. Anyone in those two countries who is promoting moyen poodles is akin to the people who promote teacup poodles. They are just trying to cash in on a fad.

I had toy poodles when my children were as young as 4. We also had a German shepherd at that time. Children and dogs all played together quite well. It just depends on the child.
 
#35 ·
@JimmyD Miniature poodles are the size of my childhood dogs, that sweet spot of being large enough to handle a bit of adventure and small enough to be portable. In your shoes Miniature is the size I would be looking for.

Since this thread started as a request for teacup sized dogs, I assume Moyen sized is probably going to be getting into the range your wife might call "big dog."
 
#38 ·
Yeah keep in mind that miniatures in FCI size are rather small, max 35cm from toes to shoulders. I suspect that a lot of the american miniatures actually are moyen by FCI standards.

@Johanna what are the preferred size in the AKC show ring for miniatures?
In the USA and Canada miniatures must be 10 to 15 inches. Yes, most miniatures in the US and Canada are moyen size since most are well over 13 inches at the shoulder. Certainly almost all the ones being shown are at the top of the standard. My Zoe is between 14 and 14 1/2, but she looked like a toy compared to her competition. That's one reason we quit showing her in conformation.
 
#41 ·
This is a bit apples to oranges since size isn't the same thing as recognized variety in the various registries.

I believe that in the UK a toy is up to 11inches for that variety.
That won't make an 11inch miniature in the US or Canada a toy in variety.

There have been changes to variety descriptions in the various international registries and breed standards thru their respective histories. It often feels a bit arbitrary but I'd follow the standards of the country/registry that I'm in.

So in the US and Canada we have miniatures if they're 10-15 inches and standards if they're over 15 inches.

There will be poodles of the medium size but they will not be "recognized" as the medium variety.

With few exceptions, most breeders in the US are using moyen (changed to medium by the FCI years ago) as a marketing term and may also be intervariety breeding to get the size.

This does matter since the different varieties have different health issues. Check VIP and OFA for those. I don't know whether any health issues are specified for testing purposes in the medium variety nor which entity would be respnsible for determining those. Possibly the Poodle Club of France since I think the moyen designation originated with them?

Type is another consideration since I think that's how the dwarf and later the moyen varieties came to be. There have been intervariety breedings at times to improve certain features in one or the other variety but it's currently and generally not well thought of in the fancy.

It makes my head spin sometimes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Streetcar
#42 ·
@Rose n Poos lots of intervariety breeding in Europe. Because here the size is what determines the registration. As puppies they usually get registered the same as their parents. But the show dogs get measured in the ring and their registration changed if needed. So if you get a 36 cm offspring from a 33cm and 34cm dwarf parents you can show and breed it as medium instead of dwarf. My pup will have a mixture of toy and dwarf in its pedigree.
 
#45 ·
Curlfloofflan, did you know that in the USA (and Canada, too, I think) poodles are simply registered as poodles? The variety (size) is not part of the registration. This leaves it up to the buyer to figure out that if you breed to miniatures and the resulting puppy goes over 15 inches, it is considered a standard for the show ring, but a miniature for breeding.
 
#44 ·
JimmyD,

I'll second what many others have said about the very fragile tiny dogs. I have had some very small Chihuahuas. The smallest was 2 3/4 pounds at adult weight. We knew she'd be small but not that small! When you have teenie tiny dogs you have added complications everything from the constant protecting them from the world & themselves to blood sugar issues. They are very fragile. For young children I would not get a dog that was going to be in that tiny or 'teacup' size. Get her a nice sturdy Mini Poodle or a Shih Tzu (those little dogs stay playful into their old age. Mine lived to be 17, almost 18 years old & she was a playful pup until she hit 12 & some age issues started showing up). Even a mini Schnauzer. These breeds have the size that you still must treat them well but play is doable

You also realize that it's tricky when you allow a child to choose a dog from pictures & that's going to be your new family member but always keep in mind that no matter what you buy... the pup may grow up to be larger or smaller & may look NOTHING like what she picked in the pictures. I mention this because I've seen kids be heartbroken because they're going to get a (fill in the blank) & the reality of the pup they get & the work it takes to get that look don't match. For example, I am an experienced dog trainer & have a good deal experience selecting puppies but when you are looking at outcrosses (2 breeds mixed together) what is produced in the puppies are not going to be a set type like what you would get with a Poodle. If you buy a Poodle & it's been bred from Poodles generation after generation... you can have an expectation of what you're getting. When it comes to cross bred dogs... you can have variety in type within the same litter.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top