Welcome to PF 🐩

We can help with breeder suggestions but have a few questions and a comment first.

Your request for a "tiny" toy is understood in terms of flying but in terms of quality breeders, that's a big flapping red flag.

The varieties have a preferred size range and with toys that will be at the upper end of the 10" height description of the breed standard, which is easily flyable.

Breeders deliberately breeding for smaller than typical are not going to be considered ethical/accountable/conscientious/quality breeders because when trying to fit organs that for generations are bred for a preferred size range, health issues are more likely, and the bone structure will likely be even more fragile. You'll see similar health concerns with humans, when they're well out of the average range.

Breeders also cannot guarantee that a pup will grow to x inches, or more, or less. It's always the genes that call those shots.

Here are the questions:

Do you have experience with poodles - have you raised one before or lived with one for an extended time. If not, what drew you to a toy poodle beyond height?

How far are you able to travel to meet the breeder and dam with pups before committing?

What's your working definition of an "ethical" breeder?

 

I had a Goldendoodle for 15 years that passed 8 months ago.. I always had to board him when I went to visit my boys and I do not want to have to do that as we both missed each other. I am a 110 pound older female so am looking for a tiny dog I could carry etc. I also understand that no one can predict the weight. But during my search I talked to a very kind breeder that had none but told me to be things to be leery of… like the puppy should not come home with me until she is 2 pounds. Not one person I was talking to about adopting one of there dogs had told me that and was willing to let me go home with one that small. By ethical I also mean no puppy mills.. I live in State College PA they are RAMPIT around here.

 

And I can travel wherever

 

Please just be aware, if you find a responsibly bred toy poodle who ends up being tiny, you may be looking at health problems. Our Misha hwas the smallest in her litter of 3. At 6 months I took her to a dog show to watch her sister and brother show, and she was 1/2 their size. Turns out she has liver shunt and it stunted her growth. Even though I have kept up other dentals, her teeth are a mess. Now at 13 years old, her lower jaw is receding and the bones no longer meet in the front. Her jaw now twists each time she moves her mouth. The only thing keeping her jaw aligned are her two top K-9 teeth and they are in desperate need of being pulled. But the vet is hesitant because of the alignment issue and also her jaw is so fragile and tiny that he feels it would leave a hole into her sinus and cause more problems. Misha has flown back and forth across the US many times and it does make it easy but the health trade off is not worth it. She is still active and happy but I am afraid this jaw thing might end her life early.

 

How much does she’s weigh?

 

Are you asking me? Misha weighs 4 pounds.

 

Toy poodles are small dogs with delicate bones. They are 7lbs or less most of the time. That‘s small enough to go anywhere. Dog 3-4 lbs are fragile. Aim for 5-6 lbs and you’ll be happy.

Anyone calling themselves a « tiny toy » breeder is not ethical. There is no such thing. Poodles come in toy, miniature and standard. Any other name is just a marketing scam.

 

Thank you everyone.. I am aware.. I am a recent empty nester.. my fiance coaches football and I am alone a lot. I’d be very happy with 5-6 I just am looking for somewhere good to get one. What I’m trying to stay away from is getting one that is difficult for me to carry in a bag while in an airport etc.. it does not have to be as tiny as you guys are saying.. Just came here for recommendations where I live there are a lot of puppy mills and trying to do the right thing

 

Welcome!

I understand wanting to do the right thing and how overwhelming those early days of searching can be. Don't give up!
There are lots of unscrupulous folks out there marketing with that term "tiny toy" so that's why you're getting warnings. Steering clear of anyone using that term will help you in your search.

If I were on the east coast, looking for a toy poodle, I would probably reach out to Rod Connors at Rodell, just based on feedback I've seen here. But don't let anyone rest on their name. Ask questions. Ensure all of their poodles are being raised in the home, underfoot, no different than cherished pets.

Toy poodle litters are quite small, so you will likely need to get on a waitlist.

Since you're open to traveling, you might want to browse this list of resources and breeders that Rose has so generously compiled:

🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩

GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...

www.poodleforum.com

 

I don't know if you're on facebook, but looking at breeder facebook pages can be a good way to find other breeders raising the same kind of dogs (my standard girl's breeder webpage is forever posting things about other standard poodle breeders). It's NOT a good way to determine if it's a good breeder or not, but if you find one breeder that you like, it can certainly give you a jumping-off point to others, and many smaller breeders keep their facebook pages much more up to date than their websites.

While the quality of breeder depends on far more than health testing, making sure the parents are tested to a minimum of PCA standards is a good first test for a breeder--it's not cheap to do, so most less-than-ethical breeders don't bother. (A fully health-tested dog should have a CHIC number, and be able to be searched on their website for verification.) Once you've seen health testing, you can investigate further to make sure the puppies are being raised in the home, properly socialized, etc.

You can also attend dog shows to meet people who have toy poodles--they make great networking opportunities and you might learn about people who only breed a litter every few years or so, and who might not market themselves at all beyond word of mouth. In addition, if you haven't been around many toy poodles before, this will give you a great opportunity to meet some!

 

This is helpful, thank you.

during my search I talked to a very kind breeder that had none but told me to be things to be leery of… like the puppy should not come home with me until she is 2 pounds. Not one person I was talking to about adopting one of there dogs had told me that and was willing to let me go home with one that small.

That breeder is on the right track but still a little outside a couple of heads up's. Because toy litters are usually very small, 1-3 pups, the small litters require more time, 10w or more, to be with their dam and siblings to acquire more exposure to good "doggy" manners. If the breeder is conscientious there may only be one litter a year - for their entire breeding program. There may not even be a breeding in a given year if they aren't looking for a new star for their program.

Generally, at least 3lbs is recommended for a pup before leaving the breeder due to the potential of hypoglycemia. That can turn deadly quickly. This is a part of the reason that a conscientious breeder flat won't ship toy pups.

By ethical I also mean no puppy mills.. I live in State College PA they are RAMPIT around here.

I hear you there. I'm in the Central Midwest, immediately neighboring Missouri, the cesspool of mill breeders. They're getting more savvy in their marketing as well by co-opting the language of quality breeders, and some are even doing some health testing. The rest of their practices still expose their true reason for breeding - $$$.

PTP offered a good breeder to look into, as well as smart advice - Verify before committing.

Rodell is worth looking at. They're in Connecticut. I'd also suggest Silvabirch in NY. Both are FB rather than websites. The sad truth is that there is such a small number of truly conscientious breeders of any variety. There's far too much chaff willing to fill the void.

If you can make contact with either of those two, especially if it can be a phone communication, I'd expect them to be able to guide you to other breeders they consider to be of quality. The conversation should also give a feel for what a good breeder will offer in their time and information.

There's a sort of tips list I can post for you on what to look for and expect from a good breeder and what to avoid in the rest. LMK if you'd be interested.

 

Thank you soooooo much!!! Great info❤

 

This is helpful, thank you.

during my search I talked to a very kind breeder that had none but told me to be things to be leery of… like the puppy should not come home with me until she is 2 pounds. Not one person I was talking to about adopting one of there dogs had told me that and was willing to let me go home with one that small.

That breeder is on the right track but still a little outside a couple of heads up's. Because toy litters are usually very small, 1-3 pups, the small litters require more time, 10w or more, to be with their dam and siblings to acquire more exposure to good "doggy" manners. If the breeder is conscientious there may only be one litter a year - for their entire breeding program. There may not even be a breeding in a given year if they aren't looking for a new star for their program.

Generally, at least 3lbs is recommended for a pup before leaving the breeder due to the potential of hypoglycemia. That can turn deadly quickly. This is a part of the reason that a conscientious breeder flat won't ship toy pups.

By ethical I also mean no puppy mills.. I live in State College PA they are RAMPIT around here.

I hear you there. I'm in the Central Midwest, immediately neighboring Missouri, the cesspool of mill breeders. They're getting more savvy in their marketing as well by co-opting the language of quality breeders, and some are even doing some health testing. The rest of their practices still expose their true reason for breeding - $$$.

PTP offered a good breeder to look into, as well as smart advice - Verify before committing.

Rodell is worth looking at. They're in Connecticut. I'd also suggest Silvabirch in NY. Both are FB rather than websites. The sad truth is that there is such a small number of truly conscientious breeders of any variety. There's far too much chaff willing to fill the void.

If you can make contact with either of those two, especially if it can be a phone communication, I'd expect them to be able to guide you to other breeders they consider to be of quality. The conversation should also give a feel for what a good breeder will offer in their time and information.

There's a sort of tips list I can post for you on what to look for and expect from a good breeder and what to avoid in the rest. LMK if you'd be interested.

You are AMAZING… I’m so glad I found this sight. I’m actually from Oklahoma and recently moved to State College I still visit Oklahoma frequently so have been looking there also. Thank you for the heads up about Missouri… and thank you for ALL of the info you have provided I feel like you have helped me go in the right direction. My breeder for Charlie my golden doodle we still have a relationship today.. So just hoping for the same experience ❤

 

Toby is 5lbs and stands slightly over 10in. Here he is on my wife's lap for a little perspective. He's easy to scoop up in one hand and carries anywhere. While I'd stop short of calling him fragile, we do worry about accidental injury. Trust me, you don't want, or need, anything smaller.

 

Toby is perfect