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Default Re: Meaness
You are kidding right ? you said the meanest thingd about me and my dogs And stated that you were so glad that you could finally get this off your ****ing chest ARE you ****ing kidding me...The PMs are flying Cherie ... You have committed suicide... You cant throw stones without someone asking questions. I am sorry for you I truly am ... Good luck explaining this breeding that you have just done .. What was it for? The betterment ? I am sorry ! i do not believe that so when they are born brace yourself everyone knows .... This will be the talk of the forum .. My Rockys bull**** will be nothing compared to this Back off bijou here comes arreau ! I am sorry but it is true they are all just waiting... i know cause they hav etold me .....Please do not threaten me okay ? Rocky md a total foo out of himself today but he truly has an issue with what he brought up we really do love our dogs and cannot imagine what you do ...We do not sell breeding rights and would not be interested in fostering at least not at this point .. So he had a right to say what he did how it got construed against you I have no ****ing clue .....



i received this private message last night. I have been getting tons of private messages asking me about a few things, which have been brought to some members attention by a certain party on here. I suppose it is always easiest to try and turn the attention to someone else rather than clean your own back yard.

First of all, contrary to what some of you are hearing through private messages, Holly's testing HAS been done. I sent copies out to some of you last night, but will post her results here so you can all see them. Holly's eyes will be CERFed again before her next/final breeding. I realize that the old CERF document is somewhat difficult to read, because it is a carbon copy, but have included it anyway.

YES...I plan to breed Holly one more time. She is a born mother, who loves being bred (she is a total tart), loves being pregnant, loves being a mommy, bounces back from her pregnancies and produces lovely puppies. There are many different schools of thought about when to breed a dog, how often, back to back breedings.... I have not, do not and will not ever think it is okay to breed a bitch before she is two. I have not, do not and will not ever breed a bitch back to back heats. I do however feel if you breed a bitch after two years of age, and she enjoys it, and rebounds quickly after each litter, there is no reason why you cannot breed her until she is eight or nine years old. So, yes, I am breeding Holly again this coming August. That is my school of thought.

There have been questions about me collecting my stud boy Flynn and shipping his semen to Lucky Poodles for use on her girl Paris. This is true also. Flynn's testing has been completed, and I was approached about someone using him. After many conversations, and me voicing my opinion on the matter, it was agreed we would do this. A very big deal has been made about the fact that the female in question produced a puppy from her last litter who had a serious heart murmur. Both the sire and the dam of that litter have had subsequent heart testing, which has been posted on OFA. From what I gather, the two vets who did the testing feel this was a fluke, or the combination of the two dogs together that created this problem. I do not believe either of these dogs should be culled from anyone elses breeding program because of this incident. If the heart testing had not been done, then I agree, no further breeding should have been done. If pups are born out of this next litter who do have heart problems, then I agree, this female should be spayed. But I am confident that there won't be, because of the testing on the parents and because of the vets opinions of why this happened in the first place. If the testing holds no weight and is not important, why would any of us do it at all???

As far as using Flynn at sixteen months, I have never been a hypocrite and come on here or anywhere else and said I have an issue with younger males being used. I don't in some situations. Personally, I intend to only use males who are over two from this point forward and have had their final certification on their hips done. But if someone else wishes to, that is their choice, their opinion, and their school of thought. IF Flynn's testing had not been done, (hips, eyes, vWd, and NEWS) I would not have agreed to allow his semen to be collected. His hips are fair, and I questioned this, and many breeders have told me that this is not unusual in a younger dog, and that they usually improve, but even if they don't, fair is a pass. The female he has been bred to is a good rating, so we have bred up. Flynn is an intriguing boy to others because his pedigree is a little more diverse than the norm in North America, and one side has a lot of European dogs in it, so of course he has sparked a LOT of interest.

I will not apolgize for allowing him to be collected. This is my school of thought. I know others have differing opinions, and I respect those opinions. I know my adversaries will grasp at anything to try to discredit me and my breeding practices, because they have something to gain by trying to bring me down. I understand that too, because this is the nature of the beast. But, I do feel this needs to be brought out in the open, and if you have any questions, ask me. Please remember, I was raised in a Standard Poodle breeding home, and things were done differently when I grew up. Some of the things that were done, I agree with and take no issue with. Other things I do have an issue with. So, over the years I have developed my own ideas and my own way of doing things combining some of the old with some of the new. I am sure that over the next several years, my school of thought will evolve yet again. But not because I get bullied or harped at. But because someone who I respect explains their school of thought to me in detail, it is something I can see ther rationale behind, and slowly my thought process changes. Just like COI's. Some breeders feel a low COI is VERY important (me) while others feel it is not as important. We all have our own choices to make, our own methods of doing things, our own reasons for doing them. I do not take issue with most people doing things differently to me. I do however take big issue with people lying, or lying by omission about what THEY do, or being complete hypocrites, and coming on here saying one thing, but doing another. Do as I say, not as I do. I may do things now and in the future not everyone agrees with, but I will NOT lie about them or hide them.

****I just tried to post all of the testing for Holly and Flynn and am getting a message that each file exceeds the size limit for this Forum. If anyone can tell me what to do so I can post these, I would appreciate it. Or if anyone would like the, send me your email addy in a PM and I will be happy to forward them on to you. Thanks!!
 

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That's a lot of information! For me, the issue is not either of your breeding practices unless someone comes on the forum to ask about getting a pup from either one of you.

I think it's fine if BRP has issues with your practices, it's fine if you have issues with her practices. It's just a shame when it carries onto the forum in such a negative way and over so many threads. You both just need to either come right out and say what your issues are with the other, or keep it quiet. It's the insinuations and the feeling that I'm missing half the story that gets tiresome.

When I join in on a thread, I'd like to think I'm actually discussing a real issue, not participating in someone's secret digs at someone else. I truly hope this does clear the air between you if that's at all possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's a lot of information! For me, the issue is not either of your breeding practices unless someone comes on the forum to ask about getting a pup from either one of you.

I think it's fine if BRP has issues with your practices, it's fine if you have issues with her practices. It's just a shame when it carries onto the forum in such a negative way and over so many threads. You both just need to either come right out and say what your issues are with the other, or keep it quiet. It's the insinuations and the feeling that I'm missing half the story that gets tiresome.

When I join in on a thread, I'd like to think I'm actually discussing a real issue, not participating in someone's secret digs at someone else. I truly hope this does clear the air between you if that's at all possible.
Sadly, I do not think this is possible anymore. There has been way too much water under this bridge and way too many nasty goings on in private for this to be healed. But I would like others to know I am not a liar, and that my business is out there for all to see. I feel badly that others have had to feel a part of this, and have had to feel then tension between us. Hopefully things will calm down to the point of civility though.
 

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We all have our own choices to make, our own methods of doing things, our own reasons for doing them.

Amen! And we don't take them lightly!!!
Too much for me to comment on, but this was important to me.
Hug your beautiful poodles... they have a way of making things feel so much better.
Karen
 

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Testing
 

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Breeding a 16 month old with a "Fair" prelim is a poor choice. This dog could easily be dysplastic at age 2.

You say that it is the bitch owners choice whether or not to use your dog. This is ridiculous. As the stud dog owner you can say NO to that stud fee.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you kindly Roxy. I would never have been able to figure this out, and this is a whole lot easier than sending out hundreds of emails!! I appreciate this very much.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Breeding a 16 month old with a "Fair" prelim is a poor choice. This dog could easily be dysplastic at age 2.

You say that it is the bitch owners choice whether or not to use your dog. This is ridiculous. As the stud dog owner you can say NO to that stud fee.
I understand your concern, and appreciate your opinion Cbrand. Thank you. His hips may be good or excellent at two also.

I do not need the stud fee.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
We all have our own choices to make, our own methods of doing things, our own reasons for doing them.

Amen! And we don't take them lightly!!!
Too much for me to comment on, but this was important to me.
Hug your beautiful poodles... they have a way of making things feel so much better.
Karen
God bless the Poos. They have been my source of comfort through my empty nesting, my marriage breaking down, my Mom dying and so many other things in life. They will help comfort me now too!
 

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While I agree w/ Cbrand I do appreciate you honesty. At least you aren't constantly pointing fingers at others or pretending to be something you aren't (like a show breeder). I think the other red breeders here should pay more attention to their own breeding programs and not worry about yours so much. Perhaps they could title some of the dogs they claim to show or figure out whether they have toys or minis.
 

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While I agree w/ Cbrand I do appreciate you honesty. At least you aren't constantly pointing fingers at others or pretending to be something you aren't (like a show breeder). I think the other red breeders here should pay more attention to their own breeding programs and not worry about yours so much. Perhaps they could title some of the dogs they claim to show or figure out whether they have toys or minis.
I could not agree more. I truly do understand myself where cbrand is coming from, but again, will not apologize for what I have done. I agreed for my own reasons and will hope for the best outcome.

Everyone in every aspect of life should sweep their own doorstep before they get their noses in other people's affairs. My oldest son is a drug addict, and we live in narrow minded small town Ontario. While some other parents were busy judging us and him, their focus was off their own kids, who also became drug addicts. Maybe if they had spent their time educating their own child or keeping an eye on things instead of spending all of their energy talking about us, this wouldn't have happened to them. Who really knows. But, usually people who spend a ton of time berating and beating up others have work to do in their own back yard.
 

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I could not agree more. I truly do understand myself where cbrand is coming from, but again, will not apologize for what I have done. I agreed for my own reasons and will hope for the best outcome.

Everyone in every aspect of life should sweep their own doorstep before they get their noses in other people's affairs. My oldest son is a drug addict, and we live in narrow minded small town Ontario. While some other parents were busy judging us and him, their focus was off their own kids, who also became drug addicts. Maybe if they had spent their time educating their own child or keeping an eye on things instead of spending all of their energy talking about us, this wouldn't have happened to them. Who really knows. But, usually people who spend a ton of time berating and beating up others have work to do in their own back yard.
I couldn't agree more. You know the old saying those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. I think its a great pity that you feel that you have to start a thread and post all your testing to defend yourself.
 

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Arreau and Cbrand, I appreciate your honesty. I know that each of us has to make decisions for our own programs and then we have to take the responsibility for those decisions regardless of how others feel about them. I do believe that you have been doing this. Healthy debates about how we feel about others programs are what we are looking for. Honest opinions without mudslinging is the way to go. A person does not have to agree with what another is doing and can say so without getting personal about it.

As this is a public forum, we have to respect the opinions of others. If everyone was able to do this, there would be a lot less waring and a lot more sharing of information that would actually be helpful to members.

Please don't misunderstand; I am not pointing fingers at anyone in particular. Being a moderator requires me to read all of the threads and sift through all of the going-ons. It is quite time consuming. It is so discouraging when one of us moderators finally has to step in with a warning for bad behavior only to have it ignored so that someone can make another attempt to win the war. We moderators do a lot of discussion before we even take a single action on the forum. It is important to us that you all have your say but it is also important to us that it not become an ugly place to be and run off good members.

We're all here to learn from one another. That requires respectful treatment of each other. As long as post are onions worded in such a way that does not attack another member, we're good. Let's all try to keep to the rules and keep this an informative forum to share what we know and knowledge about ourselves.

I will say that the last thread ended in the temporary banning of members. If members are not willing to abide by the rules of the forum, this is the consequence for it. Please to put us in a position where we have to do this to anyone else. We really hate it.
 

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I could not agree more. I truly do understand myself where cbrand is coming from, but again, will not apologize for what I have done. I agreed for my own reasons and will hope for the best outcome.

Everyone in every aspect of life should sweep their own doorstep before they get their noses in other people's affairs. My oldest son is a drug addict, and we live in narrow minded small town Ontario. While some other parents were busy judging us and him, their focus was off their own kids, who also became drug addicts. Maybe if they had spent their time educating their own child or keeping an eye on things instead of spending all of their energy talking about us, this wouldn't have happened to them. Who really knows. But, usually people who spend a ton of time berating and beating up others have work to do in their own back yard.
That was incredibly well said. I have seen it happen over and over again in my own small town. We all have things in our lives and NONE of us want to have our lives put under a microscope. There's no such thing as a person without baggage. However, if we're called out, it says a lot about you if you are willing and able to come forth honestly and talk about it.
 

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Arreau, I am sorry you were spoken to that way. I don't think you deserved that regardless of differences.

Many of us were dragged into something we DID NOT want to be dragged into. At the end of the day, how people conduct themselves is whats important, and for breeders I feel that there is a certain amount of professionalism expected, in my opinion anyway. Regardless you seem to always maintain this, you are not perfect :eek:hwell: but last time I checked none of us are.

Hopefully everyone can move past this and not give this mess anymore attention.

:)

On a side note - Jak, our super sweet calm and rational memeber and friend truely did an outstanding job trying to one sort through the BS calmly as well AND tried desperately to get people to get it!! In the end, had he not mediated.....um I think this thing could have gotten even worse. As the forum grows, Jak would be a great moderator!! :clap2::whoo:
 

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Onions?? LOL

(just kidding--I'm a former moderator of another forum, not poodle related. I know how you feel)
:rofl: We can express onions too. They'll make you cry but they won't say bad things about you! LOL
Okay, I totally thought you meant to say ONIONS! I was like, "that is an interesting way of putting it". :doh: I think I looked WAY too much into that, lol
 

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On a side note - Jak, our super sweet calm and rational memeber and friend truely did an outstanding job trying to one sort through the BS calmly as well AND tried desperately to get people to get it!! In the end, had he not mediated.....um I think this thing could have gotten even worse. As the forum grows, Jak would be a great moderator!! :clap2::whoo:
I wholeheartedly agree! He is normally so calm and passive, but it was awesome to see him step up. He didn't belittle anyone, and I felt he made valid points!
 
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