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Benjamin Franlkin - Senior Tpoo, Apple Butter - mpoo puppy
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all! I've been lurking around and reading everyone's great posts, but this is my first post. We currently have a rescue "toy" poodle who is almost 9 pounds. He has a ton of health issues and watching him suffer has been heartbreaking. Bad knees, genetic cataracts, addison's disease, kidney disease... He has it all. I decided I can't watch another dog be plagued with (mostly) preventable diseases, so I am going to choose a well-bred poodle for our next doggy adddition.

Since my current poodle, Benjamin Franklin, is sized in between toy and mini, which do I go with? My heart LOVES that he is so small and I can let him sleep on my lap while I work on the computer or read a book. BUT. I also have kids, ages 6, 9, and 11. They've had dogs and been around all sizes of dogs for all of their lives. They are pretty calm children, and they are very respectful as far as knowing animals are living things with feelings that need space. They are not allowed to pick up our current dog because I am worried they would drop him. HOWEVER. With that said, I am still concerned that maybe somebody could trip over a new toy baby and hurt him.

My mother in law has a 15 pounder, and while I love him, he does not fit well on my lap and takes up more real estate on the bed or couch when we petsit. He does seem a lot sturdier though! Any advice on which way I should choose - a bigger toy or a smaller mini? My heart says to go with the toy since we've not had any problems with our current overgrown toy, but I'm still a little afraid.

Other considerations: We have a fenced yard and currently dog walk twice a day weather permitting. Once COVID permits us to again, we will be back to visiting family at the senior center and they love to see and hold our current poo. I think the toy wins in this arena for being able to fit on the laps of even small wheelchair bound adults. My son and I would like to try out agility and trick training - just for fun, I can't imagine we will be good enough to compete as pros or anything. I never see toy poodles doing agility, and I don't know why not, but this might be a pro for the mini poodle.

And here is a bonus introductory pet tax of my terribly-unhealthy, blind in one eye, stubborn, but still well loved boy Benjamin Franklin.
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He looks so sweet! And is so lucky to be with you. Congrats on trying to do the responsible thing and get a pup from a responsible breeder. It's hard to say what would work best. Most well bred toys will be around 4-6 lbs which you might find overly fragile. Smaller minis would be very similar to your current boy. I have a large mini, around 15 lbs, and I find him an excellent less-fragile size and he does fit on my lap. Both toys and minis are great in agility so I wouldn't worry about that. I think what you need to think about is whether you'd be happy with a dog that is smaller, lighter, and more fragile than your current one. If not, I would look for a small mini.
 

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I had a tpoo when my kids were young and we have a minipoo now. My tpoo was on the large size for a toy and so is my mini at 16 pounds.

My minipoo does fit on my lap but not as easily as my tpoo. When we did therapy dog visits I was able to put her on a lap of patients using a padded cushion I brought from home. Most patients wanted to pet her in which case the minipo size was an advantage. Spoo would have been even easier for patients to pet from the bed. It was easy to lift my minipoo up to a patient to pet.

I know several tpoos who compete in agility, both regular and teacup. My minipoo is small enough to compete in teacup agility but she’s so fast that we stick to regular. Minipoos are highly competitive in agility because of their speed, athletic ability, and smarts. I’ve trained children as young as 7 to compete in agility. If you think one of your children would really love agility, I would lean towards a minipoo.

My husband and I worked long hours when our kids were young and left the dog training to the kids. My daughter is particularly gifted with animals. She taught our tpoo to perform circus tricks (getting on a ball and walking, jumping through hula hoops etc. ). There are now trick dog classes offered and lots of videos to help. They could even earn trick dog titles with AKC or Do More With Your Dog and perhaps others too. People in nursing homes love to see dogs doing tricks, even basic things. It’s wonderful for children to be involved in training a poodle. Builds a special bonds.

Of the two sizes I’ve heard people say minipoos are less prone to health issues but I don’t know if that’s true or just random observation.

Benjamin Franklin looks like a really sweet boy. I love his name.
 

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I decided on a mini because the toys seem to often have health problems. I would also worry about children who are not your own being too rough.

When you go looking for a mini pup, ask how big the parents are to get an idea of the size of their offspring. I'm sure you can find a mini on the smaller side, more like your current dog's size.
 

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I think a smaller mini would be best as they are almost the same size as a toy, but a lot more sturdy. In my picture below, my dogs physiques look the same but Beckie (blue) is most probably a mini (I assumed she was a toy and didn’t ask) and Merlin is an oversized toy.

Beckie is 8.2 lbs and Merlin is 6.5, but Merlin is so more fragile. He broke his leg as a puppy when he got scared of a 3 year old boy and his leg got caught in the x-pen he was in. Beckie’s legs are thicker, even if they are long. Merlin’s legs are long and thin, and definitely fragile. If a toddler fell on him, I’m sure they would break easily, so I can’t imagine what damage an older child could do. Beckie would hurt, but she would have a lot more chances to make it allright.

Both are around the same height, around 12 1/2 inches and both fit very well on anyone’s lap, even a small person.
 

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Before Covid I would have recommended visiting a breeder who has both varieties. It is the best way to decide between the two. IMO there is a big size/energy differences between a toy and a mini, on average. My experience was it was very difficult to find a small mini (I was hoping for 10lbs, bought a puppy the breeder said would be 13 lbs, she may end up being only 11 lbs), I had to decide before bringing a puppy home to be more flexible about weight/size and look for the temperament/personality I wanted.

I'm very happy with the dog I have, and feel like by luck more than intention she is close to the size I said I wanted originally. In retrospect, I likely would have been just as happy with a toy poodle, but I would have had to train for not jumping on/off the couch.

My guess is that a toy poodle would be more "right" for you because it sounds like that is what your heart wants: lap-sized love and antics. Contact toy poodle breeders. Tell them you would be very interested in any poodle puppy who will grow to be over 5 lbs, but that you would also be very interested in an oversize pup.

Good luck! Keep us posted on your search. We love hearing about it.
 

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Benjamin Franlkin - Senior Tpoo, Apple Butter - mpoo puppy
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The breeder I've been contacting has large minis. She says she finds her bigger minis are better winners, so she keeps them at the top end of the standard. She did say she sometimes has puppies who are quite small in comparison to the others. She did not use the word runt, but that is what came to my mind. And she sent me a pic of her last litter showing what she meant. And YES, that one pup does look really tiny in comparison!

BUT. That got me thinking. I alwasy thought that tiny born puppies aren't always necessarily tiny whn they grow up (anyone ever read Clifford the Big Red Dog? :ROFLMAO:). I also wondered if a puppy who looks that much smaller is healthy? The whole reason I'm seeking out a good breeder dog is because I want healthy and socialized, so I am afraid to do anything to jeopardize that.What do y'all think about puppies who are much smaller than their littermates?
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I'm trying so hard not to rush into anything, but I also am just dying to add another doggy to our family. It sounds kind of silly when I say it out loud, but I am so afraid of being left dogless. We're putting our old hound to sleep shortly. Our other dog, Benjamin Franklin, is 12 but he has Addison's disease, kidney disease, bad knees. Multiple times this summer we thought he wasn't going to make it, so I feel like every month more we get with him is a blessing. I'm afraid he could die at any time and then I would have an empty house with no dogs at all and I would be so lonely. :(
 

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Benjamin Franlkin - Senior Tpoo, Apple Butter - mpoo puppy
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I also guess I could ask out there if any of y'all know breeders who have a "small" mini or else toy breeders. Temple City is full up on their wait lists for this year AND next year. I'm currently in contact with Amity Valley. I'd get a pup from them, but they don't have anymore toy litters planned. We are in Minneapolis, but we are willing to drive quite far to get a pup from a good breeder. I care less about color. I know I will love any dog even if they look like a lint ball that just fell out of the back of a garbage truck. :ROFLMAO: I don't really want white or cream because we take them out with us and they WILL be getting dirty.
 

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Hi!

Just in case you haven't seen this resource yet, here's a link to a Breeder's List. There's health info and links towards the top, some Poodle Clubs and multi state lists below them and individual listings by location below.

Don't be concerned if websites aren't updated. Breeders aren't necessarily tech savvy, and often just have the website standing as a contact point. Gotta love it when they do, tho :).

Given that you're looking at Temple City and Amity, it sounds like you know what to look for in breeders but holler if you have other questions.

I'm sure if anyone has knowledge of available oups and sees your post, they'll pop by.

 

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Benjamin Franlkin - Senior Tpoo, Apple Butter - mpoo puppy
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I was so discouraged yesterday after contacting breeder after breeder after breeder and finding either LARGE minis or tiny toys or closed waitlists... Then today TWO of my contacts panned out and I have two options! I'm so excited. They both will have large to oversized toys sometime next year, and they both think they might have someone who would like having fun in agility. After the bad day I've had today, this is really a great surprise for me. :)

I mean sure I'll have to drive cross country, but who doesn't love a good poodle road trip! :ROFLMAO:

(Bonus pic of my poor old Mya, who was kicked out the big bed by her teeny poodle brother!)
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I have no experience with toys or mini’s. I had a Scottie at your kids’ ages, not fragile, like a toy, nor potentially scary like a standard. So, I vote mini, but good ones are hard to find. This is the family dog, in all of the pictures, likely to see your kids off to college. Whatever size you chose, also take your time choosing the breeder. Whatever size, the best!
 
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