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Discussion Starter #1
Testing is now available for JRD.
http://www.dogenes.com/

"We understand that the test will be accepted by OFA once our manuscript is accepted by peer review. This is currently under revision and I hope that this will happen in the near future.
Sincerely,
Mary H. Whiteley, Ph.D
DOGenes Inc."

Juvenile Renal Disease in Standard Poodles - Susan L Fleisher
http://www.vetprof.com/clientinfo/poodlerenal.html
 

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This test has been available in Poodles for a couple of years. It is unreliable and to date, OFA has refused to list the results.
 

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I did see that today a friend emailed this information to me as well as the OFA response..
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Have you ever asked OFA why they refuse to list the results?
It is understandable that until patents and publications have been completed that many people will not accept the validity. We shouldn't just dismiss that the test is false or inaccurate because OFA hasn't approved it. What do you have to loose in testing? I recall other tests being in this same situation long ago. When are we to take this disease seriously, when a money making corporation "approves" of it. I think it will be a good $135 dollars or less well spent for the piece of mind that they are not carriers for myself anyways. Isn't that what counts? To me what counts for my future breeding program is that I've done everything possible to ensure my dogs are fully heath tested to what is available to us.
 

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It is understandable that until patents and publications have been completed that many people will not accept the validity. We shouldn't just dismiss that the test is false or inaccurate because OFA hasn't approved it. What do you have to loose in testing? I recall other tests being in this same situation long ago. When are we to take this disease seriously, when a money making corporation "approves" of it. I think it will be a good $135 dollars or less well spent for the piece of mind that they are not carriers for myself anyways. Isn't that what counts? To me what counts for my future breeding program is that I've done everything possible to ensure my dogs are fully heath tested to what is available to us.
Isn't this a bit hypocritical?? All we have seen and heard on other threads is how important it is to test and post on OFA and now we should do this test, even though it is not apporved by OFA??? For hips we have Pennhip and OVC and DSL, but oh my God, you have to use OFA testing because it is the "Gold Standard". This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Colour me stupid, but I just don't get this. Sorry.
 

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Lots of tests have to start somewhere I am not at all certain that my NE is posted on OFA this was before this test was recognized and a cheek swab it was whole blood then. I have since been corrected and learned... But unless I send it to them it will never be posted . It is now recognized by OFA and I am very glad that I did it .. How can any test be hypocritical ... I agree with stars I know that i will be doing it ..Better to be safe than sorry ..
 

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A test cannot be hypocritical but people saying that a test is questionable unless it is posted on the ofa in one case and then saying that the inability to post it on the ofa (the gold standard?) doesn't matter in another case is hypocrital!! As well currently know that the dna test for fading that many were doing to be able to ensure that the dog doesn't fade doesn't tell the whole story. While this new JRD test may be a wonderful addition to the testing abilities of responsible breeder it may also prove to be a waste of time. Only time will tell if it is a useful tool or not. In the meantime it is critical to check pedigrees and not rely on a possibly false sense of security that this test may provide
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Isn't this a bit hypocritical?? All we have seen and heard on other threads is how important it is to test and post on OFA and now we should do this test, even though it is not apporved by OFA??? For hips we have Pennhip and OVC and DSL, but oh my God, you have to use OFA testing because it is the "Gold Standard". This doesn't make any sense to me at all. Colour me stupid, but I just don't get this. Sorry.
Not hypocritical at all, it is under review to be added to OFA per the doctor that created the test. Many breed groups are posting this as an additional test. Renal dysplasia research is also occurring at MIT-Broad Institute with focus on the Shih Tzu and Boxers, and at VetGen with a focus on Shih Tzu and Lhasa Apso. Since there are confirmed cases in Standard Poodles it doesn't hurt to test and once available to be posted on OFA then it should be just like PennHip and vWD and CERF are. OFA is still the "gold standard" Database of health testing and Easy for potential Puppy buyers to use. It's very simple to place a link to your dogs results directly from your own website to OFA. No one can rip off the result certificates nor can they make changes to the information. It's easy to view and you don't have to keep sending out copies of certificates via email, fax or even snail mail.
 

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I agree however not everything is there unless it is new.. So how do I get everything posted there..
 

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Discussion Starter #12
A test cannot be hypocritical but people saying that a test is questionable unless it is posted on the ofa in one case and then saying that the inability to post it on the ofa (the gold standard?) doesn't matter in another case is hypocrital!! As well currently know that the dna test for fading that many were doing to be able to ensure that the dog doesn't fade doesn't tell the whole story. While this new JRD test may be a wonderful addition to the testing abilities of responsible breeder it may also prove to be a waste of time. Only time will tell if it is a useful tool or not. In the meantime it is critical to check pedigrees and not rely on a possibly false sense of security that this test may provide
Arreau brought up the point that it might be hypocritical since it is not yet part of OFA and many folks feel that OFA is the "gold standard" of health tests. Many people on this forum as well as Breeder Referrals from dog clubs not just Poodle clubs tell potential puppy buyers to research OFA for health test results. Why not make it easier for the potential buyer to have the answers to their questions in a handy easily viewable format. OFA provides that.

As for a waste of time, never is it a waste of time to test. How do you think they can get approval if dogs are not tested? Studies are not performed for free or government sponsored all the time. It takes Breeders whom are concerned about discovering and wanting to eliminate diseases. As for color testing, if they haven't been able to determine all the genes associated with color, graying and fading then you won't have a conclusive test but you do have important indicators for your breeding program. Such as a Red dog carrying a hidden brown gene.

Pedigrees won't tell you the whole story unless you know about every parent and their siblings and all the pups produced. Testing for JRD is at least a good indicator if your dog is a carrier of the disease. In my opinion and many others from other breed clubs, there are more positive points to getting the test done then there are negative.

I hope that one day ALL health screening tests will be compulsory for ALL dogs before they are used for breeding and details included on all Kennel Club Registration Certificates.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I am just having a difficult time wrapping my mind around the double standards here.
Who said anything about double standards? Their are opinions and some opinions become the norm for the majority.

Testing is a good thing. You may prefer the labs that do your testing which is not a bad thing. It's just that OFA has become the norm faster then anyone else. Thus the reason why PennHip, CERF, VetGen and others are "jumping on the band wagon" to promote their testing and test results being included with OFA.
 

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I had Sabrina tested around 4 years ago. To my surprise she came back as JRD affected.

Now, Poodles who are JRD affected usually die around age 2 and if not, then they are very, very ill. Sabrina who is almost 9 yrs old has no symptoms of JRD.

If Sabrina was "affected" then I would also expect that some of her 26 full siblings would be affected too, yet none of them has JRD. Finally, Sabrina has 12 offspring on the ground. None of those dogs has JRD either.

When the test 1st became available, tons of Poodle breeders ran out and had their dogs tested. Some huge # came back as carrier or affected and the number was out of sync with the actual number of JRD cases we see in Poodles.

I don't think the test is accurate and most breeders I know are not using the test.
 

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I had Sabrina tested around 4 years ago. To my surprise she came back as JRD affected.

Now, Poodles who are JRD affected usually die around age 2 and if not, then they are very, very ill. Sabrina who is almost 9 yrs old has no symptoms of JRD.

If Sabrina was "affected" then I would also expect that some of her 26 full siblings would be affected too, yet none of them has JRD. Finally, Sabrina has 12 offspring on the ground. None of those dogs has JRD either.

When the test 1st became available, tons of Poodle breeders ran out and had their dogs tested. Some huge # came back as carrier or affected and the number was out of sync with the actual number of JRD cases we see in Poodles.

I don't think the test is accurate and most breeders I know are not using the test.
Very good info cbrand , I never knew about the results. This is probably why OFA does not have it on the website.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Four years is a long time ago. I would think that they are changing or improving the testing as other labs like MIT and VetGen are now involved as well. I know of Poodles that were identified at 6 years of age. An ultrasound may have identified earlier that the organ was the size of a puppies rather then an adults. I consider the testing a tool. Even if it's for my own benefit.
 
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