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Head first!! Can i ask why the thread was closed when it was not nearly as heated as some previous threads? Do i dare point out the obvious?
 

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Head first!! Can i ask why the thread was closed when it was not nearly as heated as some previous threads? Do i dare point out the obvious?
probably because I told Harley to seek therapy thus making it super personal v.v;
 

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I want to make it perfectly clear that I wasn't insinuating anyone contacted Barb to have the thread closed... its in the rules that any thread that becomes virulent will be closed
 

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Head first!! Can i ask why the thread was closed when it was not nearly as heated as some previous threads? Do i dare point out the obvious?
As a moderator, if I see what I feel are personal attacks on this forum, I am able to take whatever action I feel is necessary. Keithsomething's comment to Harley chik was the precise reason I closed the thread and I've notified him of that via PM.

It doesn't matter if HC contacted me or not, I did not appreciate the personal nature of the comment, so I closed the thread.

Your question could've been easily asked of me in a private message instead of making a new thread on the forum, but I guess others aren't ready to end the drama as much as I am at this point... :eek:hwell:

I'm presuming your "assumption" is that I closed the thread to protect Cherie. You would be wrong. She's a big girl and has no problem speaking her mind. She did not ask me to close the thread either. That was my decision.

I'm sure there will be other threads that spring up similar to the one I closed, but hopefully they won't deteriorate into personal attacks as that one did. If they do, they will also be closed. I don't even care WHO is being attacked or WHO is doing the attacking - it was inappropriate and, if seen by me, will not be tolerated. As long as opinions can be shared without malice and comments can be kept civil, have at it!

The thread is not being removed from view as were the ones regarding Bijoux, so forum members will still be able to read every post and make their own decision about what to take away from it - it just will not be able to continue to decline into more personal attacks on forum members...

Have a nice evening...

ETA... great sink, Fluffyspoos - but it would be hard to wash a poodle in there (unless it was a toy!)
 

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Fluffyspoos, you had me rolling with the sink thing. :lol: I love topic changes in the midst of intense drama.
(and those are some COOL sinks!)
 

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No, I have GOOGLE IMAGE!! WOOT!

It's a fun tactic to ease the tension.. I'll surprise you guys with more silly, random imagines some day. Just you wait.

But for now..
 

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No, really!!! Where did you find that sink pic.?? I'm most likely gonna be moving/building a new home over the summer/fall and I've been pouring over kitchen design ideas (as well as poodle pics) and that is just the sort of cool thing I'd put in my kitchen (or bathroom).

Is it me or has the topic of this thread changed? Does that mean it's gonna be moved? Let's just not start a fight over cool kitchen gajets (gagets?...gadjets?...help I can't spell!!)
I'd hate for this thread to be shut down!!! ; )
 

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Ok, this is long... sorry!!! This is basically a direct reply to the original thread, sorry Plum to be ignoring your mod powers and closing the thread, but I have been thinking this over all day and I'm trying not to reply too 'emotionally' and instead being more logical, and I really do think it needs another reply to the original thread, despite it being closed....






Arreau said:
I also know that most of your original post on this thread was full of misinformation.
and
Arreau said:
nearly everything mentioned in the first post is misinformation
and
Arreau said:
Everything brought up about this breeder in this thread is misinformation.
Umm, wow. Everything!?? Really?? I'm looking, but I only see ONE thing was wrong with Jaks initial facts Arreau?? And that was that Jak throught Lucy & Toby had already had a litter of pups (the concern was that they were both under 2 years of age)
Turns out the litter hasn't happened, it's only PLANNED to happen, so yes he was wrong there.
Though interestingly the planned litter does still put Toby at less than 2 years of age so you could say he was only half wrong in his concerns there...?

Ok, so Jak was wrong; Lucy and Toby haven't been bred. But seeing you seem to think he's so wrong, I'll go through every single one of Jaks other statements, one by one to check...

"Then Dugan and Bindi... this is a repeat litter.."
This was still correct information. He never stated it WAS a third breeding, he asked if it was, with a very clear question mark.... Not sure how that makes the whole comment wrong though as the statement itself is still correct despite the question about three breedings was wrong, it wasn't a statement so it's ok; or can we no longer ask questions?

":doh: a miniature to a standard ? seriously?"
Ok, now you can't call it misinformation for Jak to have an opinion against this breeding. I know mini X spoo is done! I don't think it's so much that it's mini X standard that is the problem though, but more the obvious confirmation faults with the mini boy being used...? I'm sorry, but he's not a well built dog, breeding him at all is a bit 'suss' to me, providing no information about him adds to the suspicion that it's a bit dodgy (IMO), let alone breeding his 'type' [conformationally] into a standard...??? I really can't see that being a good mix, and I too am really rather aghast at the fact they're doing that! But hey, we're all allowed opinions..... aren't we?

"and AGAIN Rosie cannot be 2 years old, because she is a Dugan daughter...."
Ohhh, this statement must be misinformation??
Oh wait...

"and then on top of this there is a phantom litter, which is being repeated again in spring....."
hmm, I'm seeing a pattern here, this comment is correct too...!

I also have some concerns about a litter being planned to repeat when the pups aren't even off their mum yet!! I know it's a year away, but sheesh, see how the pups grow up!?!! It really does slam of 'pretty colourings came outta this breeding, so we'll do it again' with that statement, though of course Jak didn't go so far as to say that initially, he only commented that he has some concerns over it.

In any case, it's still not misinformation.


Ok, so we can see now, for sure, that Jaks post wasn't "quite" entirely misinformation... Yes? Infact, it sounds to me as if Jak "was simply sharing something [he] found quite by accident and perceived to be rather shocking." I just quoted Arreau, and I'm sorry, but right now you *are* coming across rather hypocritical. Why? Because your defences to comments about you starting the pendragon thread are *directly* applicable to Jak starting this one, yet you seem to have a big problem with this one and not the pendragon one???

Wait, I'm gonna double check first....

Everything I posted was information gleaned from their own web site.
But if we all hold our cards close to our chest, and do not share information that is fact, how are any of the people who come on here looking for breeders and breeder information going to learn anything?
But I will not and have not posted something unless I got info from a breeders own web site, The Poodle Health Registry or Poodle Pedigree.
I KNOW I had no agenda or motive when posting the thread. I know it was the shock and awe of what I had just read on their site.
Jak could say the exact same things about his reasons and information when starting this thread? But there is a big problem with THIS one, simply because you have taken offence to it? I'm not even sure WHY you have taken offence to this thread!!???

Seriously Arreau, Jak NEVER linked Silken with you, that was your own paranoia kicking in??? He unfortunately chose to use your (very apt) starting sentence that you've seem to taken very personally, but really it was a very apt starting sentence so I'd be taking it more as a compliment that you worded it so well he re-used it!!!


Jaks comments were directly stated as CONCERNS he has about Silkens breeding practises. He NEVER ever compared her to pendragon or you or infact anyone at all. He stated the facts as he saw them and that he had serious concerns about this breeder... Though we can't forget he made one [or half] a mistake in one of his concerns though, but perhaps Jak isn't allowed to be human and make a mistake??




Arreau said:
Are you implying that what THEY [Pendragon] do is ok? You are alright with seeing a nine year old dog bred, possibly back to back heats? (This is impossible to verify now with the changes to their web site) Or that it is ok to have three litters in eleven days? Or that it is ok to breed so many litters when they have six juvenile dogs to place?
WTF? Seriously!!??? Where did Jak say he's in support of them!?? Please can you quote where he supported pendragon at all cos I must be missing it going over and over this thread to find it????? I did find him saying "You started the Pendragon thread, and I am sorry, but your motives were clear." but that doesn't seem to be in SUPPORT of pendragon?? But more of a personal comment to you, in reply to your personal comments to him (??)



And on to the next bit.

What's this about the 'circle'?? I'm guessing you're meaning Jak, Roxy, Cbrand, and perhaps some others (me too probably!)?? What about your "circle"; you, plum, keith and probably others....??! There is no ONE circle on this forum. We all have 'circles' of closer friends with shared opinions/ethics/etc in life. They are only a problem if you make them one, so why are you making them one!??

Arreau said:
I am trying and have tried to follow the "circle's" recommendations on what a breeder should do TO THE LETTER
For starters, no one said YOU MUST DO AS WE SAY. That's YOU who wants to fit into a 'circle', that perhaps you don't fit into, but it's NOT the fault of the 'circle' to have forced you into trying to meet their expectations!!! A 'nerdy' kid can't fault the 'popular' kids for making him try out for the football team or even for failing; that was his own doing, both the trying out and the failing. It doesn't make him any less right or wrong though, that's just life. Move on, have your own ideals and stick to them. Don't try and be what others want you to be; be what YOU want you to be!!? That's highschool stuff (trying to fit into the 'popular circles' cos they perceive it as being 'better' and don't have their own sense of self), and I'm afraid the only one I can condone doing that is the only highschool student here; Jak. Except it's the adults around him that are being so childish! lol.

Secondly, you haven't followed the recommendations 'to the letter' at all anyway. In fact you asked the opinions of those you are referring to as 'the circle' about Quincy, and 'the circle' actually were advising you NOT to go with that as there is little that Quincy will actually be bringing to your lines or plans except being black and a cute puppy! This is certainly personal opinion, and can certainly be 'wrong' by another persons opinion, so I'm not saying either 'side' is right or wrong!!!! Only that you CANNOT say you have tried to do exactly what 'they' say, when you clearly haven't!??


Arreau, you're allowed to do your own thing if that's what you believe in. Others are allowed to not agree too. And really, YOU have to believe in it and not try and pawn it off as other peoples ideals you're living to! I'm sorry you've taken this so personally as to bash one of my best friends, my esteem of you has gone down!


The thread was originally made because of several valid points-of-concern about a breeder. Those points-of-concern are still valid, regardless of the bashing inbetween. Silken is welcome to come on here and defend herself, just as anyone can post on here. Jak didn't have to post it on poodlecorner, just as she doesn't have to come on here and reply either. It's a free world! Though perhaps the points of concern are more likely to be seen here than there, and that's probably the whole point of posting them; that they're seen. It appears they've been seen, though perhaps not read.


It WAS NOT about you Arreau, it was about Silken. Though you have bought it onto yourself now!
 

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Thank you FD :love:

Perfect reply thank you :)
I have nothing more to say, you have said all that needs saying :)


I am utterly shocked as to how that thread has turned out!

I didn't even get a chance to reply, before so many things were assumed about me, I was rather upset when I read them.


If anyone has any questions to ask me, please ask them, and publicly, as I have nothing to hide.
 

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I must say I am still completely dazed after reading the whole thread (it was at 10 pm since I was out whole day and it is now 2 am my time) and I STILL am just flabbergasted with the whole comotion that happened ... I do not even know where to start :wacko:

First - if anybody, Jak helped you Cherie soooo many times to get rid of some nasty people here, just taking that fact into account should make you more lenient toward him and give him a benefit of a doubt of why he started this thread. I know I would !!!!

Even IF he wanted to give a massage that "calling out" should be across board and fair and non bias - than be it !!! In what way it is a "bad thing"??? Since when it is OK "for my friend to do shabby business, and it is not for "non-friend" ??? Something is right or wrong and I sometimes really have trouble understanding how and where you put the line and by what merit :rolffleyes:

How can it be OK to make excuses for doodles and that poor "absent-minded" lady in CO that bred this spring a bitch who had her leg broken as a puppy and has problem walking - in what world it can be right ???? How can it be OK to defend "top Canada breeder" who bred her Stud who has relative with Addison and is NOT telling that, for example, to a breeder who used the Stud ??? How can you call that puppy of hers "correct" in any shape and form ???? How can somebdy buy a cute puppy just for breeding purpose and just to improve the pigment ??? He is not going to bring in any conformation improvement - his tail-set alone can throw back the line - is it possible that you do not see it ??? Maybe not... I am giving you a benefit of a doubt !!!! Maybe you just wish it all falls in place - but wishing alone will not do it.

So, I am also offended indirectly since I trusted you for the longest time and now I feel "played" since I also held your side in so many threads and now am wondering was I on "the right side" ?

Jak is just a boy full of ideals and enthusiasm and there is nothing sly about him in any shape or form - he has all of his cards open - always had , always will ! If anybody can do a research , he can, and as Flying stated, he made only ONE mistake in his opening post. He also knows poodles "inside and out" and questioning his judgment call is really out of place and silly IMO

What happened to Keith - I can not even fathom : (( Why would somebody use such "low blows" out of the blue is just not understandable to me...Talking about "misdirected anger" ...just strange. It does not help to be arrogant in the area in which one is a complete novice by all means.

All in all - I am tiered also listening about supposed "circles" - yes - there are obviously "groups" of people that have the same opinion about any given subject . It does not make them a "club". I almost got phobic posting ANYTHING for a while and especially staying out of the threads where I agree with things discussed so I would not "beat the same horse" - but still , it obviously was not helping in the perception that "circle" exists.

I really hope that we alll can understand that nobody is perfect !!!! That we all first need to clean the trash in front of our own door to be able even to say something about somebody else. That life is really too short for hateful blows in ANY direction. That we all should be open and ready to hear critique so we can improve and move forward in any goal that we have. That we allll can improve - as breeders, buyers,groomers, or human beings !!!! Let us help each other in that and not put each other down to reach that goal !!!

Blessings and peace to all ...
 

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What happened to Keith - I can not even fathom : (( Why would somebody use such "low blows" out of the blue is just not understandable to me...Talking about "misdirected anger" ...just strange. It does not help to be arrogant in the area in which one is a complete novice by all means.[/COLOR]
I'm not a novice in the area ((call me intermediate ^_^ )) Wishpoo ((arrogant maybe but one really shouldn't speak about things they're a novice at ;) ))...I know the man from a class he spoke at and I've gotten close to him since having him teach me many things involving disorders in children and how they progress threw out the persons life (( = into adulthood))

but I was reprimanded for my comments...the end?

I find it odd that you would call one "young lad" bright and enthusiastic but the other not...why can't I be enthusiastic about psychotherapy?

I made my apologies to Barb for taking it "to the next level" and for her having to get involved but I guess I should apologize here as well
Sorry Barb for being "rude" and personal, I hope I didn't cause you to much stress <3
 

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Head first!! Can i ask why the thread was closed when it was not nearly as heated as some previous threads? Do i dare point out the obvious?
I agree with you - why? Why wouldnt there have been a public warning - as so many others have gotten before by plumcrazy? I think thats unfair and I see a conflict of interest here - I like Cherie , lots - but this time it got out of hand and Jak was not there to even elaborate and it kept going........ I do see some that question her a lot - sometimes its fair, and sometimes its not. Just my opinion. :eek:hwell:

I don't see one "group" better than the other really :wacko:- I AM NOT IN ANY I just watch and agree or disagree.

Jak - it was a thread worth posting, I do not think you meant for it to go where it did, and I agree with someone that mentioned you and Silken do frequent another forum together - maybe posting there also would be a good idea. I am sure some have been educated by your post. I am still wondering about the mixing of variety of spoos, but maybe next time..........:)
 

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This refers back to my post on the Pendragon thread.
I thought the 'rules' of this forum were that you could say anything as long as it's the truth.
I told my experience with Pendragon poodles...that I've met two and that they were nice poodles and the owners were pleased...I don't think I deserved the sarcastic, belittling reply, with a hammer to the head, from Plumcrazy, just because I wasn't going along with all the negative responses. How mature was that? I wouldn't have expected that from the moderator.
I suspect that, had I been someone else, I would not have gotten such a negative response.

I didn't want to post this on the Pendragon thread because I don't want to keep bringing it up to the forefront, either here or when it is Googled.
 

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I made my apologies to Barb for taking it "to the next level" and for her having to get involved but I guess I should apologize here as well
Sorry Barb for being "rude" and personal[/QUOTE]

Keith...I think your apology would be more appropriately directed to Harley.
 

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I made my apologies to Barb for taking it "to the next level" and for her having to get involved but I guess I should apologize here as well
Sorry Barb for being "rude" and personal
Keith...I think your apology would be more appropriately directed to Harley.[/QUOTE]

honestly one should only apologize for what one feels sorry for... I felt sorry that all of you wrongly accused Barb of closing the thread to protect her breeder so I apologized to her... but I'm FAR from sorry about my statement

"mean what you say, and never look back"
<3
 
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