[Olive Love]

This is just my opinoin, no offence to anyone who owns a doodle. And this is not my video, I just found online and agree, It belongs to MoonKitti.

 

[TeamHellhound]

Eh, the same is true for purebreds. Goodness knows there are people out there breeding very poor quality dogs and charging a small (or not so small) fortune for them with no more thought than "boy dog + girl dog = puppies to sell". On the flip side, there are lots of doodle breeders out there who do health test and try to breed the best possible dogs they can. There are also some good purebred breeders who will let their dogs be used in cross-breeding programs (albeit under the table most of the time).

 

[lily cd re]

And there are people who don't do good husbandry on their poodles, GR and various doodles too. The video is way over simplified.

 

[Oonapup]

All breeds were at one time made by crossing other breeds or types. The problem IMO is not that they are crosses vs purebred, but that the doodles are usually bred to make money at the expense of the health animals themselves and with no purpose in mind other than to sell for lots of money as pets. That's also not new or specific to designer dogs/doodles. If I had a quibble about the doodle mixing itself I would worry a lot more about the mixes between dogs bred for very different purposes/instincts and very structurally different dogs - the aussie doodles and border doodles and husky doodles, or the newfy doodles, masti-doodles, etc. I think the psychological and physical soundness of some of those mixes is likelier to be a problem than crossing other hunting/retriever breeds with poodles.

I met a lovely neighborhood dog who is a pudelpointer - a breed developed in the 1800s by crossing german poodles and english pointers, and they were bred as hunting dogs. They are not recognized by AKC but are by UKC and can compete in hunting.

 

[lily cd re]

Oonapup I agree that when you have a cross between dogs whose parent breeds originally had very different working drives that you can end up with a very confused and challenging dog. I also really have concerns about the structural soundness of certai crosses, and not just those involving poodles.

 

[For Want of Poodle]

Oonapup I agree that when you have a cross between dogs whose parent breeds originally had very different working drives that you can end up with a very confused and challenging dog. I also really have concerns about the structural soundness of certai crosses, and not just those involving poodles.

Weird temperament mixes and structure issues yes... Someone I know was bragging how much she spent on her pomsky a 'designer' cross of Pomeranian and husky. Mmmmm.... Why?

I could have bought 3 Annies for the cost of that weird mix

 

[Starla]

The video is just a sound byte dump by a former groomer. Sounds just like what you hear on the grooming Reddit.

The weirdest thing happened online where someone was going on and on about their ewokian dog. I thought they were just being cute and asked if they had dna tested to see what it was and she schooled me that an ewokian is a Havanese and Pomeranian mix purebred and she paid $3000 for hers.

 

[Kait]

My issue with doodles are the unethical breeders charging more for a designer mix than most purebreds go for, and the lies a lot of them tell. So many owners have told me they bought “purebred doodles” who are registered with papers. Plus yes, the weird combos. Someone around me breeds “micro bernedoodles” which are a mix of Bernese mountain dogs and toy poodles…

 

[reraven123]

Just happened to catch Judge Judy today, and there was a couple who paid $2300 for a "micro teacup maltipoo" from a pet store and wanted their money back because it grew to 12 lbs. She read them and the puppy broker the riot act and ridiculed them for paying so much for a mixed breed dog. She told them there was no such thing as a "micro teacup" and they should go to a reputable breeder where they could see the parents and have some guarantees. They did not get their money back. I'm not a fan of Judge Judy, but she does have her moments!

 

[Dechi]

I voted without watching the video and can’t delete my vote.

 

[Click-N-Treat]

As a dog trainer, I have the identical problem with every young labradoodle and goldendoodle that show up in my class. Breed 1: Thickly built, heavy for its size, highly social and friendly, tends to be a mouthy puppy. Breed 2: Poodle. Known for light springy body, medium weight, often matures slowly, tends to be a mouthy puppy. Results: large heavy dog with an overly social pushy personality who jumps directly at your face, has zero impulse control, and is prone to biting when frustrated. Over, and over, and over, and over in my manners class the same dog shows up attached to a different handler's leash.

 

[WinnieThePoodle]

There is a labradoodle that we meet on our walks who will jump at me to get to the treats in my hand and almost take my fingers off. Now when I see it coming I quickly hide the treats in my bag and then it jumps up trying to get in my bag. It's probably lack of training but the other dogs with the same owner don't do it so perhaps its more the Lab issue.

 

[lily cd re]

I had a vet and her BF (an engineer) come in for a focus class 2 weeks ago with their older adolescent golden doodle. OMG I couldn't cope. Thankfully my assistant took them on. The barking and lunging to get at the other 2 dogs in the focus and attention class was wild and potentially dangerous. The dog had -100% impulse control. The GF/vet was relying heavily on things like pushing the dog onto sits and downs as well as taking him by the collar to turn him away from his obsessions with the two working dogs in the focus class. Not my thing for sure. And they did a beginner class at my club (not sure whose class they attended). I at least have to give credit to the beginner instructor who told them to come to focus instead of novice. I would have kicked them out of novice and sent them to focus. My assistant took GF/vet and dog to lobby area. I stayed with the focus people and was able to talk to BF about how to get their dog under control while they worked.

 

[Kait]

There is a labradoodle that we meet on our walks who will jump at me to get to the treats in my hand and almost take my fingers off. Now when I see it coming I quickly hide the treats in my bag and then it jumps up trying to get in my bag. It's probably lack of training but the other dogs with the same owner don't do it so perhaps its more the Lab issue.

I wouldn’t blame it on the lab genetics. In my early 20s my parents adopted a 2 year old lab with next to no training, and even he wouldn’t jump like that for treats. In my experience Labs are so highly food motivated that they can usually be taught pretty quickly that jumping and grabbing means no treats but sitting does.

 

[Oonapup]

I’m sure the trainers on here have more insight, but the doodles I meet in the neighborhood and in training classes seem just as nice and well or ill mannered as any of the young dogs, that is, as works in progress. There are some on special programs who are working through fears and neuroses but there are also lots of purebred dogs in those programs too. I suspect that owner preparation/expectations has a lot to do with some of the doodle issues people describe. As much as we like to say that what the doodle people want is the poodle characteristics, I think a lot of them want a super easy dog that trains themself. That doesn’t exist, but the lab or golden is closer to that than the average poodle - I know lots of labs and goldens who have turned out fine without much active training though. Maybe there is some selection bias in the doodles I meet - their owners have healthy expectations for and commitment to training and socialization. But with any super popular breed or designer dog, you have tons of people who don’t all know what they’re getting into, and some number of them are going to have a harder time overcoming temperament issues or even regular energy and stimulation needs their dog might inherit from their poodle ancestors. In other words, I suspect it’s fad math to some degree.

 

[Kait]

I’m sure the trainers on here have more insight, but the doodles I meet in the neighborhood and in training classes seem just as nice and well or ill mannered as any of the young dogs, that is, as works in progress. There are some on special programs who are working through fears and neuroses but there are also lots of purebred dogs in those programs too. I suspect that owner preparation/expectations has a lot to do with some of the doodle issues people describe. As much as we like to say that what the doodle people want is the poodle characteristics, I think a lot of them want a super easy dog that trains themself. That doesn’t exist, but the lab or golden is closer to that than the average poodle - I know lots of labs and goldens who have turned out fine without much active training though. Maybe there is some selection bias in the doodles I meet - their owners have healthy expectations for and commitment to training and socialization. But with any super popular breed or designer dog, you have tons of people who don’t all know what they’re getting into, and some number of them are going to have a harder time overcoming temperament issues or even regular energy and stimulation needs their dog might inherit from their poodle ancestors. In other words, I suspect it’s fad math to some degree.

I think this is where a lot of it comes back to the breeders. The things some doodle owners have told me they were told by their breeders are ridiculous. They don’t need training because they're so smart, don’t let the groomer cut their fur at all until 6-12 months or else it’ll never come back (or don’t go to a groomer at all, their coats take care of themselves), they can’t be aggressive, etc. People trust their breeders, and when they’re lead astray by them it so often ends badly. The vast majority of these breeders aren’t going to hand to deal with poorly socialised and trained puppies after they leave though because they won’t take them back like good breeders will.

 

[plaura]

Former store/grooming manager and current doodle owner here 🙋🏻‍♀️ As a manager of a grooming salon I was VERY against doodles for all the reasons listed above- hyper dogs, misinformed owners chasing a “fad”, dogs bred poorly, etc. Ironically my favorite client was a goldendoodle and long story short I ended up getting one of her puppies.
Speaking from my own experience, I truly think it comes down to the breeder and owner. My friends have a stereotypical- very active “crazy” doodle. They also have a wheaten terrier who has some similar behaviors so it’s likely training plays a part in it as well. One of our worst clients was a purebred chocolate lab. Countless shih tzus and Maltese that were as poorly bred as the designer dogs. My state allows puppies to be sold in stores to whoever wants them leading to purebred dogs going into unprepared homes. Yes there were doodles with behavior and health issues but no worse than the backyard bred purebreds. I also think proper education is a HUGE factor in whether or not someone is successful with any dog. Potential owners need to know about the grooming requirements and do research into the price of grooming in their area to make sure they can afford it. People also don’t seem to understand that doodles are not a separate breed- they have aspects of both parents. Health tested parents, knowing the temperament of the parents, proper training for your puppy, seeing where the puppies are raised all of these are musts and so many owners just don’t do the right research.

Overall I think we see these issues with dogs when they’re seen as commodities- owners wanting something cute or trendy and sellers wanting a quick buck.

Edit to add: a large part of the reason I ended up with my doodle is her high percentage of poodle. I don’t think she has much golden in her so I do want to point out that that could be part of my luck with having a good doodle.

 

[TeamHellhound]

I think this is where a lot of it comes back to the breeders. The things some doodle owners have told me they were told by their breeders are ridiculous. They don’t need training because they're so smart, don’t let the groomer cut their fur at all until 6-12 months or else it’ll never come back (or don’t go to a groomer at all, their coats take care of themselves), they can’t be aggressive, etc. People trust their breeders, and when they’re lead astray by them it so often ends badly. The vast majority of these breeders aren’t going to hand to deal with poorly socialised and trained puppies after they leave though because they won’t take them back like good breeders will.

People are also misinformed and/or outright deceived by breeders of purebred dogs.

One of the biggies I can think of in Dobermans is that doing the two known genetic markers associated with DCM is all the cardio testing that needs to be done. Or even being told that a breeder's dogs don't need any testing because "there is no cardio in their lines". DCM is everywhere in the breed. There is absolutely no escaping it.

Most crummy breeders will ghost a person at the first sign one of their puppies has a problem. It's not exclusive to doodle or other designer mix breeders.

 

[Kait]

People are also misinformed and/or outright deceived by breeders of purebred dogs.

One of the biggies I can think of in Dobermans is that doing the two known genetic markers associated with DCM is all the cardio testing that needs to be done. Or even being told that a breeder's dogs don't need any testing because "there is no cardio in their lines". DCM is everywhere in the breed. There is absolutely no escaping it.

Most crummy breeders will ghost a person at the first sign one of their puppies has a problem. It's not exclusive to doodle or other designer mix breeders.

Absolutely, I’ve seen my fair share of unethical breeders in basically every breed, just with the popularity of doodles as someone mentioned there’s sooo many of these bad breeders and by extension uninformed owners. I think health issues like DCM are less remarkable to a lot of people who think all purebreds are genetic disasters so when they hear about it they brush it off as a purebred problem, plus they’re not as visible to non owners as unkept coats and poor training. That’s why I say it comes back to the breeders. They’re taking advantage of the popularity for money and just keep pumping out these expensive pups and telling any lie it takes to get them sold.

 

[Rose n Poos]