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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some information about me - I'm 23, I live in Tennessee, and I work as veterinary technician. A friend breeds standards and I've fallen in love with the breed. They are incredibly smart and have the best temperament. I've done a ton of research and I feel solid on the health side of things. I would like to participate in AKC sports and I've gone to watch rally, flyball, barn hunting, conformation, etc. I'm super excited and I've taken as much advice from breeders as I can. I'm ready to start working with a puppy and I've settled on a color. I've contacted several breeders, gone through AKC marketplace and it's been difficult to find the color I want with the testing and OFA clearances that I want. If anyone could lead me in the right direction that would be lovely. Thank you so much!
 

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Hi and Welcome!

By leading with a specific color, I'm sure you know that you're limiting your options significantly and not only because of color but also because of the specific pattern.

Multi-color poodles are allowed to participate in AKC sports but because they're not allowed to compete in conformation, few AKC breeders are breeding parti's. This matters because most of the AKC quality breeders compete there to prove their dogs meet the breed standard. They're going to stick with the solid colors.

UKC does allow multi-color poodles in conformation, separately, so UKC will likely have more breeders to choose from.

I'm linking a recent thread from another member with a similar request but on the West Coast.

There are a few breeders mentioned there as well as some other possible sources.

 

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This color pattern would be very very rare, and I doubt it's one a color breeder would deliberately attempt to create. I think you are more likely to find phantom, sable, or brindle among the serious color breeders.

Brown is somewhat uncommon; it simply hasn't been a fashionable color. Silver beige is a greying gene applied onto brown. The greying gene is slightly more fashionable, but it's still not found on every street corner. So, silver beige is a somewhat rare color. Phantoms are somewhat rare, as that pattern is not condoned by AKC. So, phantom + brown = extra rare. Now, say you do get a color breeder who really likes both phantoms and browns, and she goes out of her way to create a litter of brown phantoms. She is going to want the most intense color possible, which means she will avoid introducing a greying gene into her line.

I would check out Windswept or MyTyme for interesting colors, although I think neither is likely to have silver beige.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi and Welcome!

By leading with a specific color, I'm sure you know that you're limiting your options significantly and not only because of color but also because of the specific pattern.

Multi-color poodles are allowed to participate in AKC sports but because they're not allowed to compete in conformation, few AKC breeders are breeding parti's. This matters because most of the AKC quality breeders compete there to prove their dogs meet the breed standard. They're going to stick with the solid colors.

UKC does allow multi-color poodles in conformation, separately, so UKC will likely have more breeders to choose from.

I'm linking a recent thread from another member with a similar request but on the West Coast.

There are a few breeders mentioned there as well as some other possible sources.

I understand that I am limiting my options, yes. I am open to other colors but this would be my top option if that makes sense. I'd be extremely happy with a solid silver beige or cafe au lait. I like the brown - grey color palette and I think it is very unique.

I am also aware of AKC's rules, that's why I would most like do sports in AKC and possibly show in UKC since that focuses on total dog performance.

Thank you for the information and recommendation!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
This color pattern would be very very rare, and I doubt it's one a color breeder would deliberately attempt to create. I think you are more likely to find phantom, sable, or brindle among the serious color breeders.

Brown is somewhat uncommon; it simply hasn't been a fashionable color. Silver beige is a greying gene applied onto brown. The greying gene is slightly more fashionable, but it's still not found on every street corner. So, silver beige is a somewhat rare color. Phantoms are somewhat rare, as that pattern is not condoned by AKC. So, phantom + brown = extra rare. Now, say you do get a color breeder who really likes both phantoms and browns, and she goes out of her way to create a litter of brown phantoms. She is going to want the most intense color possible, which means she will avoid introducing a greying gene into her line.

I would check out Windswept or MyTyme for interesting colors, although I think neither is likely to have silver beige.
I understand the rarity of the color. From my understanding - silver beige is brown with 2 copies of the fading gene and cafe au lait is brown with one copy of the fading gene. I've talked to quite a few breeders and have found a couple who have these color lines. Some don't have the health or genetic testing that I want so that's why I came here if that makes sense. I am willing to look at really any standard. I mainly care about health and genetics but I do have preference is all. I wanted to be somewhat unique lol.

I will check them out! Thank you so much for your time and recommendation!
 

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I understand the rarity of the color. From my understanding - silver beige is brown with 2 copies of the fading gene and cafe au lait is brown with one copy of the fading gene.
Yes. So, if you look at a really nice brown phantom, it's got dark chocolatey hair and bright apricot, cream, or buff colored points. The contrast between the two shades is quite striking. When you throw the fading gene in on top you lose the strong contrast between the dark body and the light points. I saw this with my brown parti-phantom, Snarky. He wasn't a cafe, but his brown faded and obscured his cream points simply due to normal age related fading. I don't have pictures handy right now. I'll see if I can find some later.
 

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Cosmic Caliber breeds phantoms.


Here is a listing of outstanding poodles in the United Poodle Association, an organization that includes non-solid colors. This might provide some ideas of non-solid poodle breeders who also show their dogs.

 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Cosmic Caliber breeds phantoms.


Here is a listing of outstanding poodles in the United Poodle Association, an organization that includes non-solid colors. This might provide some ideas of non-solid poodle breeders who also show their dogs.

I adore Cosmic Caliber. She has been incredibly sweet and I am already in contact with her.

I will take a look at the other link. Thank you so much!
 

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I found two pictures of Snarky.
Here's one from when he was around 9 months old, I think. He was a brown phantom with an intensity modifier which had lightened his red points to cream. The cream against brown was very striking.
475980


And here's one at 9 years, about 6 months before he died. (His gorked out expression is because he'd had surgery earlier in the day.) As you can see, his brown had faded some. The cream points, however, had retreated substantially.
475981


And, linking back, here's a photo of silver beige Sandy at around 4 years, posted by our late forum member Dogsinstyle.
475982


As you can see, Sandy got quite light. Neither Snarky's cream colored points nor even darker apricot colored points would have been all that visible against the silver beige color.

So, in summary, my concern about spending a lot of effort hunting for a silver beige phantom is that the dog may only display truly spectacular phantom markings for a year or so. After that the color will probably fade. Since you want to use this dog for sports, it would be a shame to bypass lots of really nicely bred dogs from sporting lines, only to select a dog whose doesn't retain the contrasting color points you chose her for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I found two pictures of Snarky.
Here's one from when he was around 9 months old, I think. He was a brown phantom with an intensity modifier which had lightened his red points to cream. The cream against brown was very striking. View attachment 475980

And here's one at 9 years, about 6 months before he died. (His gorked out expression is because he'd had surgery earlier in the day.) As you can see, his brown had faded some. The cream points, however, had retreated substantially. View attachment 475981

And, linking back, here's a photo of silver beige Sandy at around 4 years, posted by our late forum member Dogsinstyle. View attachment 475982

As you can see, Sandy got quite light. Neither Snarky's cream colored points nor even darker apricot colored points would have been all that visible against the silver beige color.

So, in summary, my concern about spending a lot of effort hunting for a silver beige phantom is that the dog may only display truly spectacular phantom markings for a year or so. After that the color will probably fade. Since you want to use this dog for sports, it would be a shame to bypass lots of really nicely bred dogs from sporting lines, only to select a dog whose doesn't retain the contrasting color points you chose her for.
Beautiful dogs! I agree that I probably shouldn't be as picky about color and should focus on a healthy well bred dog. But I can say that I haven't turned down a dog due to color yet. If I have it's because it doesn't have the background or health/genetic testing that I want.
 
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