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I am on the search for a poodle puppy and came across this little one on a website for $1600. My question is, Do you guys think she is a purebred poodle? She is cute but I want to get a second opinion before contacting the breeder any further.
 

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The photos show different puppies, some male and some female. But I can tell they are from Family Affair Standard Poodles. There have been quite a few threads about them on this forum that you probably want to read. Search bar is your friend! I do think it is a full breed poodle, but maybe not one that conforms to the standard. Here are some thoughts on the breeder.

My impression is that they are a very high volume breeder, and they state on the website that they have ~45 dogs. All puppies and adults are kept in separate kennels and they employ staff to help. They do not title their dogs in anything, so there is no guarantee that they are breeding dogs with great temperament. They do not breed to standard, and seem to have no care at all for breeding correct structure, arguing that pet people don't care about that. They do seem to do some health testing on their dogs (I haven't looked in full). They have a RIDICULOUS number of puppies for sale. Way more than I am comfortable with.

To give you the best chance of ending up with a healthy, physically sound dog with the temperament you want, I would advise going for a different sort of breeder. Titles on the parents (conformation, obedience, performance sports) prove physical soundness and good temperament. Most good hobby breeders do not make a profit from it. They breed because they love the dogs. They usually breed very few litters because they need to give puppies lots of attention and socialization. Most good breeders' puppies already have homes lined up before they are born. They work very carefully to socialize the puppies to new sights, feelings, and sounds, and they make sure each puppy is matched with an owner based on temperament. And they are there to give constant support to new owners if anything arises.

I would think about what sort of breeder you want to work with.
 

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Thank you Rose n Poos for the behind the scenes view. At least they have large runs and appear relatively clean, but it isn’t the type of breeder I want to support.

I recently got a poodle puppy after much research, and am very happy with my choice. The incredible beauty and stable temperament of a well bred dog is an invaluable commodity. That said, you will pay good money for it too! I am so thankful for the knowledge I gained from this forum in helping me make the right choice.

I have a mini so can’t help you with recommendations, but I would lean into this forum and also contact the Poodle Club of America representative in your area, this is the link for that. I spoke to the rep in my area and it was helpful. It’s a big decision.
 

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What is your geographic search area? We may be able to recommend breeders.

I used guidelines from Versatility in Poodles to help choose a breeder. Before that I knew little about the criteria to look for (most people put more time into buying a car than a dog). I was lucky to find an available pup quickly, but for my next spoo I’ll commit to a breeder’s wait list as far in advance as I can. Those first weeks are so important to a dog’s development.

 

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Not a good idea to purchase a puppy from them. You could be looking at a lot of health issues. There is information posted on this forum to help people buy puppies from reputable breeders. I have yet to go through this process because my poodle came from a rescue, but you should expect to pay (around) double the price of what that breeder is charging.

Please don't give a breeder like that money. Go to a reputable breeder or get a dog from a rescue.
 

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Two of our puppies were from a breeder who is generally well respected here, but who, at least back then, was a pretty high volume breeder. She wanted to send both pups home just before 8 weeks. Two of our poodle puppies came from "non-breeders"; a highly respected poodle handler and a woman who is crazy for dog sports. Both of those poodles came home with us at 11-12 weeks. Although we loved all of them and still miss the ones who are gone, raising the two puppies who were socialized properly was so, so, much easier. I don't think that it was just good socialization either, the underlying temperaments are/were better.

Our new guy, whose parents are both multi-sport dogs is as easy a dog as I have ever trained — he actively tries to understand what I want him to do— one of his litter-sisters got a CD at 7 months! Our first poodle, from the show handler, would have been a great show dog. Not only did she have the looks and an outgoing, attention-drawing attitude, but she also had a laid back, indolent nature that would have made near-endless grooming and traveling easy. They had both been bred for those purposes. Ironically, the other two dogs were substantially more expensive.
 

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Thank you guys! I had a weird feeling about them but wasn't positive where it was coming from. After reading more about them and seeing those pictures, It is upsetting and I will not be purchasing a puppy from Family Affairs. If anyone has a Reputable breeder on the East Coast that you could recommend, I would love to get more information so I could possibly get on a waiting list/pick up a puppy.
 

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Thank you guys! I had a weird feeling about them but wasn't positive where it was coming from. After reading more about them and seeing those pictures, It is upsetting and I will not be purchasing a puppy from Family Affairs. If anyone has a Reputable breeder on the East Coast that you could recommend, I would love to get more information so I could possibly get on a waiting list/pick up a puppy.
I am so glad that you had the intuition and asked us here! Catherine got her boy Javelin at Madela, who is an outstanding breeder on the East Coast (CT, I believe).

Also, please read this: Find A Poodle - Versatility In Poodles, Inc. (scooterscout also posted, but it is such a good website!)
 

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Thank you guys! I had a weird feeling about them but wasn't positive where it was coming from. After reading more about them and seeing those pictures, It is upsetting and I will not be purchasing a puppy from Family Affairs. If anyone has a Reputable breeder on the East Coast that you could recommend, I would love to get more information so I could possibly get on a waiting list/pick up a puppy.
So glad to hear! There is nothing like getting a pup from a great breeder! I have a minipoo so I don't know about standards, but I'm sure others will have recommendations. As far as prices go, good spoo breeders will typically charge $1500-3000, but I would expect to pay $2-2.5k if I was looking. But I would not make a decision based on price. The saying is that you pay the breeder or you pay the vet. You will never regret paying more for a good pup. Good breeders put so much money into their dogs that they are lucky if they break even even with the prices they charge.
 

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Those pictures make me cringe at the least way of responding. And yes MaizieFrosty is correct my boy Javelin is from Madela whose foundation dogs are Ale Kai. Javelin's grandfather is Ale Kai Mikimoto on Fifth. I would also recommend Scheherazade in New Jersey, and CaliSun down in one or the other of the Carolinas.
 
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I'm getting late to this thread. I googled their name, and they have videos, below is one I watched. Their breeding stock don't appear to be house dogs (too many), and their outdoor individual crates are somewhat small, but I'll guess from their land the video that they spend most of their days outside. They're located in NC. I see them treated more like horses than what we like to think of preferred poodle care, and noticed most don't meet the highest standard of the breed in body and facial structure, or what we'd consider a well-bred poodle.

It turns out they have a reason for that, see what they say on their site, quoted below, in the last few sentences, and the entire write was fascinating.

I'm also relentless proponent of DNA testing, and checked their FAQ page covered this under the question, "What do you do to prevent genetic defects in your Standard Poodles?" It answers the above I noted too. The bold font is theirs, but I broke it down to several paragraphs for readability:

"A: DIVERSITY! DIVERSITY! DIVERSITY! Diversity is our goal and is it obtained by the way we choose to breed the blood lines in our Standard Poodles. Diversity produces a low COI in our Standard Poodle puppies. COI stands for Coefficient of Inbreeding (small gene pool). Essentially, it measures the common ancestors of dam and sire, and indicates the probability of how genetically similar they are.

The following link explains the importance of low COI in determining the amount of genetic health issues. A Beginner’s Guide to COI | Dog Breed Health. High COI in the STANDARD POODLE is the result of trying to attain and keep the Poodle Club of America standard that is written for AKC. We sacrifice complete control of that exact AKC show look and select our breeding stock for more random qualities of beauty, temperament and most important health. The other factor causing high COI (small gene pool) in the breed is breeding for specific colors. You may have read earlier on our website that we are able to produce every color accepted by AKC. Many people have inbreed inside the same color lineage to retain that “perfect color” but unfortunately this is one of the causes for the many genetic defects.

To obtain diversity we have crossed up solid colors with other solid colors that have very little or no common genetic background. An example of this is, mixing our brown line with our red line. Now some breeders would gasp with disgust because this can produce a liver nose on an apricot or red. To some breeders this is a NO, NO. A liver nose is even accepted in the AKC show ring, it is not desirable but is accepted. There are lots of people including us that think a red or apricot Standard Poodle with a liver nose and amber eyes has a beautiful expression. (see pictures below).

This is one example of where some breeders seek to avoid a cosmetic trait like a liver nose and forgo the diversity which lessens the chance of a genetic defect in certain blood line. We have also done the same with our parties and phantoms. We have sacrificed having a whole litter of partis or phantoms by crossing our solids with our partis or phantoms. When you do this you will only have a certain percentage and sometime no partis or phantoms in the litter. This type breeding can take several generations but this process waters down or diversifies the very small gene pool of the partis and phantoms and therefore reducing the chance of genetic defects in these colors.

We have most recently been blessed to add a very old and healthy bloodline from Canen Standard Poodles from the UK. We have introduced this line crossed with a very diversified Russian line into our Silvers, normally a very high COI color. We also have another breeding from the Canen line to enhance the health of our Browns & Blacks. Shirley Bell bred a large bone robust Standard Poodle for over 60 years. The introduction of these line into ours is greatly reducing the COI in our puppies.

Our breeding practices may produce some undesirable conformation or cosmetic traits (according to AKC standards) but our main goal is to enrich the very small gene bank of the Standard Poodle pedigrees which is and will continue to be the best weapon against genetic disorders."

**

Now this is a point of view I have haven't seen elsewhere. I'd prefer a home raised poodle with clear DNA and a low COI that visually meets the standard of the breed, but find their breeding program and ideas worthy of discussion.

 

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Whew! I've been reading more on their FAQ's page, and spotted several other unusual ideas that are pretty foreign to me. Definitely strikes me as a farm environment from throw back days with elements of some knowledge of genetics that doesn't go quite far enough.

Strictly in terms of genetics, my opinion is they sacrificed good body conformation/ structure with achieving they lowest possible COI. This is unfortunate to me b/c they produce so many. It's not like they're of, say for example, Arreau standard poodle beauty and elegance. More like "Cute dog. Is that a poodle?"

I also think their DNA testing needs to be updated for breeding parents rather than relying on the accuracy of grandparents or great grandparents of puppies - and the results ideally would be posted on the DNA sites or OFA for every sire and dam (which few breeders do, even the "best"). With so many dogs over so many years, paternity may not be 100% reliable in situations where all of them are let out to play outside a lot.
 

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I am on the search for a poodle puppy and came across this little one on a website for $1600. My question is, Do you guys think she is a purebred poodle? She is cute but I want to get a second opinion before contacting the breeder any further.
I would like to add a different perspective to the comments in this thread. Five years ago when I was looking to add another spoo to the family I checked with all the local breeders in NC. I wanted to be able to meet the breeders, parents, etc and to pick out my future performance dog. Before my search, I had meet a few spoos from Family Affair, one was a beautiful brown male that was training to be a service dog for child. The family came to the training club where I teach. The owner of the training club was a certified with Cause for Paw. This puppy had a great temperament, very intelligent and gentle. A coworker had gotten his spoo from Family Affair, again she had a solid temperament. Same for the others I met. I visited Family Affairs at least three times before putting a deposit on a puppy. I had a few requirements for a puppy. First, I wanted a performance dog as I do obedience and agility. Second, a solid temperament as with being a trainer I have meet numerous spoos whom were wonderful, but not the temperament I was looking for. Third, of course was health and lastly I wanted a female. I was hesitant about the size of their breeding, but after visiting and talking with the owner about how they operate and the care, health and socialization they put into the puppies, I was satisfied. The deposit I placed was for a female puppy from a litter of white spoos. When I went to pick my pup, none of the puppies was the ONE for me. They showed me a litter of silvers, which I was given first choice of the three girls. I went back when the pups were 5-6 weeks and picked out my girl. She was the one! I met both parents, dad was an import, outgoing, solid temperament, lovely dog. Mom was a lot like my 14 year spoo, Lexi who I have always consider the perfect dog! My puppy, Tori is now 4 years old, she has obedience and agility tiles in both UKC and AKC and is a certified therapy dog. Tori's brother is a UKC show champion and one of her sisters is a performance dog.
 

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Knowing that poodles are family dogs, watching that video made me very sad. It's like the dogs are at a boarding facility. Also it looks like some of the poodles have "swaybacks" and can't that lead to back issues?
 

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Knowing that poodles are family dogs, watching that video made me very sad. It's like the dogs are at a boarding facility. Also it looks like some of the poodles have "swaybacks" and can't that lead to back issues?
Yes! A boarding facility! That's a perfect description. Or a daytime doggie daycare. You've put your finger on why this place is such a shock b/c as your said, poodles are very much family dogs and this kind of setup is offensive to our sensibilities. .I also see number of their poodles have a body structure, particularly with their backs, that don't meet the Standard of the Breed.

On a positive note, JulesB had an excellent experience with them and said it's parents have wonderful temperaments, puppy is now a certified therapy dog. Better: the sire is an UK import from good lines so it sounds like Family Affair is moving in the direction of selectively trying to breed out the faults, presumably including their backs, while keeping the nice temperaments and low COI.

I wonder if Family Affair has ever considered contracting with individuals for their breeding poodles, where the foster parents gets to keep the poodle after three or four litters? That would be a major win for the poodles who would then grow up and live in a home with their family for life.
 
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