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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi, there is a little toy girl I am considering. She has a lot of underlying pink skin under coat. Pic attached. Can this be a problem in the future? I've never seen this much red/pink before? Her body shows pink as well. She is being advertised as Extreme Red Parti/White Poodle Girl
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Is her skin very pink where she has not been shaved? It does look almost inflamed in the first photo, which could be down to close a cut for such a baby. Or it could be sensitivity to the shampoo or other products used, in which case I would want to know if they were normal dog shampoos or something too harsh. Either way, I think it needs more investigation.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Is her skin very pink where she has not been shaved? It does look almost inflamed in the first photo, which could be down to close a cut for such a baby. Or it could be sensitivity to the shampoo or other products used, in which case I would want to know if they were normal dog shampoos or something too harsh. Either way, I think it needs more investigation.
Thanks for your response. She is being advertised as a Extreme Red Parti/White Poodle Girl so assuming she is born this way.
 

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Hi,

I am not understanding the "extreme red" label...her fur looks snow white with a little patch of brown by the ear. I would be worried about anyone using an "extreme red" label....The skin on her face looks odd to me. I wonder if it could be inflamed or burned?

Hopefully someone has has better answers. There are many, many resources on this site for finding a good, reputable breeder. Good luck :)
 

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It's a close trim on a young white poodle, the pup's spots are red/apricot as for the term extreme that is a swanky term. I would be leery of any breeder using such a term
 

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I also don't know what extreme red parti means either, but since she is mostly white and very closely trimmed on the face I would say the skin color there is from the grooming. Lighter colored poodles' skin tends to de more sensitive to close clipping.
 
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On a solid white poodle the skin should have normal pigmentation.

When an animal has white spots, the skin under the white spot is often unpigmented. (You can see the effect of spotting genes on skin when you Google pictures of hairless breeds like the Xolo or Chinese Crested.) Therefore, if you have an animal with huge spots running together, it's possible you'll have huge patches of unpigmented skin. I think this breeder is trying to say this pup is such an extremely spotted parti. The spots extend over the face, leaving the muzzle pink.

That being said, the skin on that pup does look rather red to me. Pogo's skin usually looks more like a pale lavender when I part the hair on his white spots. Hard to say what's going on from a single set of pictures. Razor burn? Hot day?
 

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Looking at the website, the word "teacup" is used often...which, unfortunately is not a good sign. In this case, the breeder is intentionally creating very tiny puppies that can grow up to be dogs with major health issues. They also are charging much more for these puppies. Additionally, looking at the other puppies, they seem to lack appropriate grooming (fur is too long on some and in their eyes; some other dogs have very pink/red faces as well- maybe skin color, maybe not). One specific dog looks sick or could possibility have physical issues. They also partner with breeders who sell doodles. I am wondering where these dogs are coming from...parents should be on site. Also, health testing information should be available for parents. Just some additional thoughts...
 

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I would not buy this puppy. « Exteme red » is a red flag, and seems to be a made up expression to make attractive the fact that this puppy’s face has inflammation. She might be having food or environment allergies or some kind of skin problem.

Definitely not a good place to buy from. There are lots of threads on the forum to read that explains what to look for in an ethical breeder.
 

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I also found the site. It may be the lighting or something but every light colored pup exhibits that same redness of skin in varying degrees.

Additionally, there are other things on their site that I find concerning, if I were looking at them for a pup for myself.

They are advertising for sale now 3 moyen-sized poodles with different prices for full AKC reg vs "pet", 6 miniature poodles with different prices for full AKC vs "pet" reg, 10 toy poodles either with no papers or different pricing for full AKC vs "pet" and several of those listed as "teacup". They're using their mini male Dax to stud some of their toy bitches. He's described as a small mini in the toy pup section.

They're asking $1200 to $2500 for some of the "no papers" pups.

Two of the toy pups available were born Feb 6, 2 on Jan 20, 2 on Jan 19, 1 on Dec 27, 1 on Dec 4, 1 on Oct 29, and 1 on Sep 25.

That's 4 toy pups 12 weeks old or more still waiting for homes and 6 newer ones looking for homes.

The two mini litters are from Jan 26, 2 pups, and Jan 27, 4 pups.

The small standard/moyen litter of 10 was born Jan 26 with 3 still looking for homes.

That's 22 puppies so far this year, actually all born from Jan 19 thru Feb 6 this year.

They are also using a co-ownership/guardian home contract option to home some of their breeding females off site.

I personally would pass on this breeder if I were looking right now. They miss some of my important check boxes.

I mention these things because you'd said in your other thread that genetic health and temperament are important to you. The number of pups alone would deter me from them.

They mention genetic testing but don't show or link to the results for the toys or minis, so definitely ask them for access to that info. The link I have in the next post will take you to a page at Versatility In Poodles which gives information on which tests should be done for each poodle variety.
 

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I'm going to share my checklist with you for what I want to find in a breeder:

Who would I want to buy my poodle from?

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed. They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better. They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own. They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract. They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines and breed to better them.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them. They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing
or by breeding from titled parents. It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing such as eyes, hips
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see Health Related Publications - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"

! Anything not found on the website should be provided by breeder before buying


If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.
 

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You'd mentioned in your thread
that you wanted the option to compete in obedience.

I hope someone will verify me but if you're considering one of the "no papers" pups, that might be difficult to do without papers, assuming that means registry papers.

Some digging later, it seems that you can register in the AKC PALS program without papers, so that should cover you for obedience. UKC has their Performance Listing as an option too.

Have you looked at this breeder near Seattle?


Their website mentions belonging to the Washington State Obedience Club and the specific genetic and other health testing they do, with links to the results and pedigrees.

If I were looking right now, their website has exactly the things I look for so I'd definitely consider this breeder, at least to contact and ask more. If they don't have what you're hoping for, they may be able to suggest some other breeders for you to contact.
 

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Hi, there is a little toy girl I am considering. She has a lot of underlying pink skin under coat. Pic attached. Can this be a problem in the future? I've never seen this much red/pink before? Her body shows pink as well. She is being advertised as Extreme Red Parti/White Poodle Girl
This pup doesn't look to be of robust health to me, and it's not the too-close shave job either which I suspect inflamed the skin on her face. Just a vibe, but she also looks sad and depressed, which is in no way means for you rescue it as some buyers are inclined to do.

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I will say she has very nice coat. Her age is not stated on the photos but she was born on 1/20, so I can't tell why she doesn't appear comfortable standing in the pics. The breeder does a lot of breeding, gathered from the multiple birth dates of her toy, moyen-sized, and standard litters. If she was 4 weeks when the photos were taken, this would explain why she doesn't stand properly and looks uncertain. If the pics were take a week ago, she's undersized and lacks the robustness I'd expect in an 8 or 9 week old pup.

The site is Idaho Jewels Poodles. For the asking price and location, you can find poodle pups in your state instead of risking travel or travel expenses halfway across the country. You mentioned in another thread that you live in Washington state. Check out this link to breeders there. Also compare the photos of their pups to the one you asked out, and you can see the difference. Here are two Washington breeders I'm familiar with:

Farthing has a good reputation on PF, champion poodles, nice pups, see their site here, and look at those alert, confident expressions:

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Kandyland has champions and nice pups, see their site here. And when you see a white poodle pup with apricot colored ears and some apricot on it's back, these usually turn ice white by adulthood, like this one below:

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There are other breeders in and near your state. Please don't hesitate to ask us about other ones.
 

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FirstTimePoodleMom, I hope you're still around. Whatever pup you choose, we wish for a long and happy life together for you all.

Please keep in touch.
 
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