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I was wondering - is it unreasonable for a buyer who is willing to pay 1,500 to 2,000 $ , to ask for a puppy that has a correct bite, descended testicles and the tail that is not "grotesquely" gay ??? :rolffleyes:
 

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Well... I thought so too :smow: but obviously I ask for "too much" :wacko: according to one . So, I just wanted to have "reality check" here - thought maybe it is something extraordinary I ask for O-O !!!!
 

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I was wondering - is it unreasonable for a buyer who is willing to pay 1,500 to 2,000 $ , to ask for a puppy that has a correct bite, descended testicles and the tail that is not "grotesquely" gay ??? :rolffleyes:
Not at all!!! I don't know why so many breeders take offense when a buyer know exactly what he/she wants. :( For me a bad bite, especially underbite is a deal breaker. But what is a gay tai????
 

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a gay tail is curled and/or flipped over the back. A slight curve is ok, as long as it's still a fairly straight one and at the 1 o'clock position, but curled over or flipped right up like a bichon is against the breed standard entirely, and I don't like it either!
 

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Wow. There's a lot wrong with that puppy.

The bite alone would be a deal breaker for me and I detest squirrel and lay-on-the-back gay tails (don't mind a curve as long as it doesn't exceed 45 degrees). An undescended testicle would not deter me, but I'd want the puppy to be discounted to pay the extra cost of neutering it.
 

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a gay tail is curled and/or flipped over the back. A slight curve is ok, as long as it's still a fairly straight one and at the 1 o'clock position, but curled over or flipped right up like a bichon is against the breed standard entirely, and I don't like it either!
Thanks for such a detailed explanation. I wouldn't want that kind of tail on my poodle, but it sure looks great on my Havanese. ;)
 

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NOT AT ALL ask for it .. A gay tail is like a squirrel tail curls under l..
 

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I was wondering - is it unreasonable for a buyer who is willing to pay 1,500 to 2,000 $ , to ask for a puppy that has a correct bite, descended testicles and the tail that is not "grotesquely" gay ??? :rolffleyes:
You should definitely have expectations! Those are perfectly reasonable things to want and ask about. Sorry you're having so much trouble finding a pup :(.
 

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a gay tail is curled and/or flipped over the back. A slight curve is ok, as long as it's still a fairly straight one and at the 1 o'clock position, but curled over or flipped right up like a bichon is against the breed standard entirely, and I don't like it either!
1 o'clock position for the curve? Out of curiosity does anyone have a photo, or website, that shows what is acceptable?
 

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If you are saying that this puppy has all three of these things, then YES, that is too much to pay.

Agree... discounted for the xtra expense on the neutering cost. (But I have no idea how much that would be. A call to your vet first)

Bite... what do you mean? A narrow bottom jaw with 'just' the lower canines going up or a bite that is really off? If just the lower jaw... it's quite common in show lines and I have yet to see one not correct itself as it gets older... but you do have to pay attention to it.
Nice to find a stronger lower jaw, which means moving away from those awfully pretty heads, sometimes! :) I've been fortunate there but when I breed into the finer show lines, I see it. Again, their adult teeth are fine.

Tail... don't think because it's 'gay' that it will be all bad. Now if you are saying it's horribly bad, and you see that the parents also have that tail... ok. But I'll give an example... Grace had a gay tail. Ugh. I was very surprised as I didn't have that at all, until I bred to Hunter.
She is now 2 years old and her tail is always up and there is a curve (My vet also docked it too long but I can live with that!) But if someone would have turned her down because of how it looked when she was a pup, they would have missed out on a fabulous poodle!
I'll attach pictures of her...
 

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a curved tail is ok!! Especially when long. A CURLED tail is not!

I said 1 o'clock, but 12o'clock is common too, and for this I mean how (the angle) it comes out of the body (nothing to do with the curve further up)
See the pic of BRPs red pup there is at 11o'clock (ie 1 o'clock if it was facing the other way!) I'm not talking about the whole tail, but the angle it comes out from the body.

http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/breedstandard.htm page 17 has a few pics of tails, but not the flipped over the back (think bichon or maltese) or totally curled like a squirrel ones...
 

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SANY1708.jpg This would be the grotesque gay tail :) Seems when she is most relaxed it curls back more.

SANY1713.jpg and then it turns out too.....but it's a gay tail ether way. We lover no less:)

I thought I heard that until dogs were a bit older, you can't always be sure how a bite may turn out. Also, I thought I heard the same as far as the tails too. ??
 

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Bite... what do you mean? A narrow bottom jaw with 'just' the lower canines going up or a bite that is really off? If just the lower jaw... it's quite common in show lines and I have yet to see one not correct itself as it gets older... but you do have to pay attention to it.
Nice to find a stronger lower jaw, which means moving away from those awfully pretty heads, sometimes! :) I've been fortunate there but when I breed into the finer show lines, I see it. Again, their adult teeth are fine.
The bold is mine.
I am not quite sure what that means. Does someone have a picture???
 

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I don't think it is too much to ask, remember that this is your friend for the next 12 ish years, and that you are dropping a substantial amount of money on this puppy.
I spent 1150 on a sheltie that was a show prospect. well, as he grew he was oversized according to growth pattern charts, and he developed an underbite. The breeder assured me over and over again that he would be in size, his bite would right itself. It never did, only got more severe, and he is 17 inches tall at the withers(the breed standard is 13-16 inches)
I am out that 1150.

I wouldn't do it again.
 

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oops, forgot to mention something else,
I prefer a slightly gay tail... at the 2 o clock posittion if the dog is stacked in front of you and you are standing on the off- show side.

This is because if the dog gets slightly nervous during a show, the tail doesnt fall completly(usually) it will usually just fall enough to look straight up and down
 
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