Is it possible to trust a breeder from a distance?
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I think I would ask to see testing if not posted anywhere make contact by phone and then ask for references
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ive bought dogs from only a couple hours away, and dogs from hundreds of miles away.
the dogs that I got from close by, turned out to not be great quality, the ones that were shipped were excellent. Im not saying that if a breeder is nearby their dogs will be crap, and vice versa- just that I was a victim of instant gratification LOL
Its a crapshoot when a breeder is at a distance, so you just have to be that much more aware of what you are ultimately looking for. go with your gut
the dogs that I got from close by, turned out to not be great quality, the ones that were shipped were excellent. Im not saying that if a breeder is nearby their dogs will be crap, and vice versa- just that I was a victim of instant gratification LOL
Its a crapshoot when a breeder is at a distance, so you just have to be that much more aware of what you are ultimately looking for. go with your gut
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I think it's totally possible, but like all things, research and knowledge are the key. If I were to consider a puppy from a breeder I could not personally visit I would be looking for personal recommendations from people I trust, personal contact with the breeder and references.
Having said that, in my own search for a puppy, I have only considered breeders within driving distance (I consider that to be somewhere I could go to and come back from in a week-end.) I am just not comfortable getting a pup from someone where I have not personally met them or their dogs.
Having said that, in my own search for a puppy, I have only considered breeders within driving distance (I consider that to be somewhere I could go to and come back from in a week-end.) I am just not comfortable getting a pup from someone where I have not personally met them or their dogs.
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I LOVE it if people have videos of their puppies. It's nice to see puppies moving around and playing and watch how they interact with their littermates and other people around them. You can always pick out alpha puppy that way and that's good to know when you are looking at temperaments.Another good tool that today's technology offers is videos of the home, grounds, litters, family, interaction, development, feeding, etc... of a potential long-distance breeder. It's kind of hard to hide anything if the camera is rolling!
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Oh my Heavens...I HOPE SO!!!! I have sold pups coast to coast in Canada and the US, and not many of the folks are willing to pay the additional money to come all this way when it is not necessary. (I do not blame them. It can mean a full couple of days driving, plus motels, plus food, or up to a couple of thousand dollars for them to fly here). I match puppies to their lifestyle and preferences, and being with them 24-7 for the first eight weeks of their lives get to know them very well. This method of doing things has not failed any of us yet. Every person has been delighted with how their puppy has fit in with their family and lifestyle, their health and temperament, their conformation and attitude.
Yes, just make sure, whether buying from afar or from a neighbour, that the health testing has been done, that you research the pedigree, and that you build up a rapport with the breeder, so you know if you have a question or concern in the future, that they will be there for you. Dont just take testimonials you see on a web site at face value either. Anyone can get someone to write a letter and post it on their web site. Ask the breeder if you can get phone numbers or email addressses for some of these people and speak to them yourself.
Yes, just make sure, whether buying from afar or from a neighbour, that the health testing has been done, that you research the pedigree, and that you build up a rapport with the breeder, so you know if you have a question or concern in the future, that they will be there for you. Dont just take testimonials you see on a web site at face value either. Anyone can get someone to write a letter and post it on their web site. Ask the breeder if you can get phone numbers or email addressses for some of these people and speak to them yourself.
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I have to say buying from a breeder far away makes me very nervous. There are ways to minimize the risks though. This forum is a great tool for that and it's why it's so important to be able to discuss breeders open and honestly. I've had members here that I trust offer to visit breeders for me. I've had member here vouch for breeders too. I like getting references from a forum b/c it's independent. A breeder is more than likely going to put you in contact w/ someone they know is happy. You always have to consider the source. The breeder I'm considering is about 8-9 hours away, but she shows, so I was able to meet her recently. She also has friends in my area that are knowledgable breeders. I was able to go to one of their homes.
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Videos are definitely a great tool, but can also be misleading. One high volume breeder I have seen is careful to keep the video trained only on the one whelping box but it is fairly obvious that it is only one whelping box of many. Not the type of set-up I would be comfortable with. But videos that show a wide pan and the pups in a variety of settigs are great!Another good tool that today's technology offers is videos of the home, grounds, litters, family, interaction, development, feeding, etc... of a potential long-distance breeder. It's kind of hard to hide anything if the camera is rolling!
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Good for you and we do give out phone numbers if this is necesary, we have definately got happy puppy buyers. So we check with them first of course because it is a privacy issue as well . I do not make the proctice of just giving out numbers. WE have shipped but would rather you could come here. WE encourage that., we have hotel listed on our site as well and have even let folks stay at our house... This forum is defiantely a great tool but I have seen some very biased opinions as well so you still need to check it out. Build a repoir with the breeder. We think it is important have our phone number right there on the site. As well as copies of all the testing that we have done. Everything is there .
so I guess it comes down to what do YOU want as a puppy buyer. There are definately ALOT Of breeders out there.
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We would rather play with the babies than video...
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I don't really see how the two are mutually exclusive. I fully intend to make use of the video feature on my camera when my mom has a litter next year! I only wish we had more video of the pups (and dogs) we have had in the past. But that's for selfish reasons, not for puppy buyers.
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I'll add... just as much as you are nervous about buying from afar... so will the good breeders be thinking that of you.
I am very picky where my pups can go... and being part of a forum like this helps me to see who I would or would not sell to from reading their many posts. I've found some here already.
I am very picky where my pups can go... and being part of a forum like this helps me to see who I would or would not sell to from reading their many posts. I've found some here already.
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I so enjoy having my fiance videotape while I play with the kidlets, and vice versa. I think it is very important for potential buyers to see the pups playing with my Grandchildren (they may have children) or socializing with my pack (they may have other dogs) or interacting with visitors, so they can see exactly the type of socializing goes on here, and maybe they will hone win on one particular personality thery really like or don't like. Believe me, no way to cover anything up, as I post a gazillion videos on my Facebook business page. If I were staging my videos and photos, with the crazy number of both that I post on FB, all I would have time to do is videotape and stage. If you see my home, you will see someone cleans it (that would be me. I am a tad OC about my house) so obviously what you see is what you get. I have had nothing but fabulous feedback from the FB posts, because my people can feel like they are a huge part of the puppies first eight or nine weeks.
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I loved the fact I got to go and visit the puppies before I came to pick up my girl. However the amount of pictures and videos I had seen before I came to visit had me already in love with them all long before I met them. You can tell so much through those pictures and videos of the love and the care that was provided by their breeder. These things are priceless and part of reasons that our Betty Jo and Jenny have fit so perfectly into our home.
Its was great to be able to see how excited they were to be able to see Cherie again when she came to our home to visit us. (They pinned her to the couch and licked off all the makeup she had so carefully applied lol)
I guess my bottom line in this is you need to find an ethical breeder that is in it for the love of poodles. That loves and cares for them like she was going to keep them all for herself. Of course one that does all the testing etc as well. If you can find a breeder that does all that and you click with too, then if they are close at hand or if they are a country away I still think that you are fortunate to have found the right breeder for you.
Its was great to be able to see how excited they were to be able to see Cherie again when she came to our home to visit us. (They pinned her to the couch and licked off all the makeup she had so carefully applied lol)
I guess my bottom line in this is you need to find an ethical breeder that is in it for the love of poodles. That loves and cares for them like she was going to keep them all for herself. Of course one that does all the testing etc as well. If you can find a breeder that does all that and you click with too, then if they are close at hand or if they are a country away I still think that you are fortunate to have found the right breeder for you.
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Buying Long Distance
I have always bought long distance because the pedigree I wished was not around where i am.
I have had good and bad experiences "early" in my dealings.
My own fault of course and I am not blaming anyone but myself for my lack of research.
The Bad experiences:
When I didn't buy from a breeder that had OFA numbers for her health testing, I just trusting her that it was done like she said it was...it was not..
I got blinded by the fact that she had a puppy I wanted when I wanted it.
Shame on me... If I had purchased a puppy from OFA'd parents then I could have saved myself a real disappoinment on a puppy that failed OFA after 2 years $$.
Thankfully now I do know I can check the numbers on OFA myself (didn't know about this early on).
For anyone else wishing to do this here is the web page:
http://www.offa.org/
NO OFA = health testing NOT DONE PERIOD.
In Canada I just got my Poodle OFA hips, elbows, patella, cardiac, thyroid for:$300.00 All of the results of ANY OFA'd dog is displayed on the OFA web page UNLESS they fail something, then that will not be displayed if the breeder doesn't wish for it to be displayed (another reason to double check OFA results).
Plus the shipping expense to OFA which is around $45.00 or less.
This is a small cost for a breeder to pay 1x for the lifetime of the dog.
Especially when they are charging $1,000.00-$2,500.00 a puppy.
Breeder never did get me those "current" photos, video of the parents.
So when my puppy faded out a great deal at 6 months of age I was suprised as the breeder "said" their parents were dark color.
Pedigree didn't arrive before I had to make a final payment... Puppy arrived before the pedigree. When the pedigree arrived I was horrified...Yes solid champion pedigree that was so inbred beyond normal limits. Result was a totally crazy hyper poodle that would not fit in my household.
You can search pedigrees that are certified on the AKC web page $
or for free (not always acurate but give you an idea) here:
http://www.poodlepedigree.com/
Getting a puppy and not receiving registration papers...
After 6 months still no registration papers... phone call to the registry confirmed litter had never been registered...
ALWAYS get a litter registration number before you get the puppy (especially if you plan on showing or breeding).
I bought a puppy from a breeder that trash talked every breeder that she had not sold to or bought from. Every question I asked about health testing was fluffed off, as she complained about everyone else not health testing. I totally fell for it, thinking she must be a good breeder to be so upset about other people...HA HA... the health testing paper work on the parents she said she would send me, arrived, and were for other dogs in the pedigree or outdated CERF testing (has to be done yearly to be valid). So disappointing when Breeders you trust, try to deceive.
Good Experience:
Breeder was available at all times with quick email responses to what probably seemed like paranoid questions to her at the time. Breeder was not "afraid" to email me and have her comments appear in writing. I found breeders that were dishonest wished to ONLY speak on the phone (nothing they said could be tangible, if on the phone).
Wanted to know about me and refused to sell breeding rights to me without knowing my plans and pedigree. Most reputable breeders will only sell on "limited" registration as they care about their breedings.
Breeder had goals and plans on keeping pups from the same breeding I was interested in, because they were showing their pups. Breeding for a reason not just for income.
Price was at par or above the average. I'm not saying you can't get a great deal out there...but the "deals" I have gotten have always come with a lot of cost later down the road. Good breeders have a great deal of expenses doing health testing and showing and general care for their dogs, that BYB's just don't have, so their price is lower. Taking your chances when shopping for a bargin. I choose to know pay upfront and know what or have a better chance at getting quality over discount.
My good breeder belonged to a breed club because she said she wanted to learn more about the breed and what is going on in the dog community and for health clinics and such. Most clubs have a code of ethics to follow and if a member doesn't meet those they are no longer a member. The bad breeder with the discounted puppy was not a member of any clubs as she said they were too clicky ... I found out later there are many clubs you can be a member of that are not clicky, "if" you have an interest in learning more about any topic surrounding dogs. But if you are not willing to follow the club's ethics or guidelines, then you won't/can't be a member.
The puppy I bought was microchipped and had a Health certificate with the microchip number on it to prove it was the same puppy that was Vet inspected healthy.
POINTS:
You should not have to do a great deal of research to find information about a breeder's dogs. If it is a struggle to find stuff or get informtion...RUN..
Good breeders will have health testing numbers right on their dog's web page as they will be proud to show them and hope you will verify them.
Good breeders will display all the titles and accomplishments of their dogs with show photos ..because they are proud of what they have achieved and will continue to achieve.
Good breeders will be able to send you updated photos or videos of their dogs....OR... have that on their web pages BEFORE PURCHASE.
If dealing with breeders on the phone then have all your questions written down so that you can keep a breeder focased on answering your questions. Don't get baffled by all the double talk.
I hope some of my experiences will help someone !!
Tinypoodles
I have always bought long distance because the pedigree I wished was not around where i am.
I have had good and bad experiences "early" in my dealings.
My own fault of course and I am not blaming anyone but myself for my lack of research.
The Bad experiences:
When I didn't buy from a breeder that had OFA numbers for her health testing, I just trusting her that it was done like she said it was...it was not..
I got blinded by the fact that she had a puppy I wanted when I wanted it.
Shame on me... If I had purchased a puppy from OFA'd parents then I could have saved myself a real disappoinment on a puppy that failed OFA after 2 years $$.
Thankfully now I do know I can check the numbers on OFA myself (didn't know about this early on).
For anyone else wishing to do this here is the web page:
http://www.offa.org/
NO OFA = health testing NOT DONE PERIOD.
In Canada I just got my Poodle OFA hips, elbows, patella, cardiac, thyroid for:$300.00 All of the results of ANY OFA'd dog is displayed on the OFA web page UNLESS they fail something, then that will not be displayed if the breeder doesn't wish for it to be displayed (another reason to double check OFA results).
Plus the shipping expense to OFA which is around $45.00 or less.
This is a small cost for a breeder to pay 1x for the lifetime of the dog.
Especially when they are charging $1,000.00-$2,500.00 a puppy.
Breeder never did get me those "current" photos, video of the parents.
So when my puppy faded out a great deal at 6 months of age I was suprised as the breeder "said" their parents were dark color.
Pedigree didn't arrive before I had to make a final payment... Puppy arrived before the pedigree. When the pedigree arrived I was horrified...Yes solid champion pedigree that was so inbred beyond normal limits. Result was a totally crazy hyper poodle that would not fit in my household.
You can search pedigrees that are certified on the AKC web page $
or for free (not always acurate but give you an idea) here:
http://www.poodlepedigree.com/
Getting a puppy and not receiving registration papers...
After 6 months still no registration papers... phone call to the registry confirmed litter had never been registered...
ALWAYS get a litter registration number before you get the puppy (especially if you plan on showing or breeding).
I bought a puppy from a breeder that trash talked every breeder that she had not sold to or bought from. Every question I asked about health testing was fluffed off, as she complained about everyone else not health testing. I totally fell for it, thinking she must be a good breeder to be so upset about other people...HA HA... the health testing paper work on the parents she said she would send me, arrived, and were for other dogs in the pedigree or outdated CERF testing (has to be done yearly to be valid). So disappointing when Breeders you trust, try to deceive.
Good Experience:
Breeder was available at all times with quick email responses to what probably seemed like paranoid questions to her at the time. Breeder was not "afraid" to email me and have her comments appear in writing. I found breeders that were dishonest wished to ONLY speak on the phone (nothing they said could be tangible, if on the phone).
Wanted to know about me and refused to sell breeding rights to me without knowing my plans and pedigree. Most reputable breeders will only sell on "limited" registration as they care about their breedings.
Breeder had goals and plans on keeping pups from the same breeding I was interested in, because they were showing their pups. Breeding for a reason not just for income.
Price was at par or above the average. I'm not saying you can't get a great deal out there...but the "deals" I have gotten have always come with a lot of cost later down the road. Good breeders have a great deal of expenses doing health testing and showing and general care for their dogs, that BYB's just don't have, so their price is lower. Taking your chances when shopping for a bargin. I choose to know pay upfront and know what or have a better chance at getting quality over discount.
My good breeder belonged to a breed club because she said she wanted to learn more about the breed and what is going on in the dog community and for health clinics and such. Most clubs have a code of ethics to follow and if a member doesn't meet those they are no longer a member. The bad breeder with the discounted puppy was not a member of any clubs as she said they were too clicky ... I found out later there are many clubs you can be a member of that are not clicky, "if" you have an interest in learning more about any topic surrounding dogs. But if you are not willing to follow the club's ethics or guidelines, then you won't/can't be a member.
The puppy I bought was microchipped and had a Health certificate with the microchip number on it to prove it was the same puppy that was Vet inspected healthy.
POINTS:
You should not have to do a great deal of research to find information about a breeder's dogs. If it is a struggle to find stuff or get informtion...RUN..
Good breeders will have health testing numbers right on their dog's web page as they will be proud to show them and hope you will verify them.
Good breeders will display all the titles and accomplishments of their dogs with show photos ..because they are proud of what they have achieved and will continue to achieve.
Good breeders will be able to send you updated photos or videos of their dogs....OR... have that on their web pages BEFORE PURCHASE.
If dealing with breeders on the phone then have all your questions written down so that you can keep a breeder focased on answering your questions. Don't get baffled by all the double talk.
I hope some of my experiences will help someone !!
Tinypoodles
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2,645 Posts
This is really good information thank you. It is easy to get caught up in the have it right now mentality. I need to remember a lot of these things and write them down. I also don't like vague answers. I want a straight forward answer and I've even gotten some breeders that will almost act offended by me asking if their dogs are health tested. I didn't think of asking for current pictures of the sire and dam, at least the dam because a lot of times they use something outside of their lines. All good information to help the normal person avoid costly mistakes.
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2,314 Posts
Thanks for sharing your experiences! Just one thing - I'm fairly sure that at least in the past (and maybe currently), breeders have to tick a box and pay a small fee in order to post on the OFA website. So it is possible that breeders have done the tests but you won't be able to verify it on the OFA website. Some breeders also do not put all evidence of health testing on the OFA website (so for example hips will show but other tests won't).
So first stop for a pup buyer if breeder says they have done testing is OFA website. If dog or tests aren't listed there, or only incomplete testing shows, then ask for copies of ALL health testing done on BOTH parents before you put any money down for the pup or have received the pup.
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