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Hi PF community,

Basil, SPOO, is starting to put on weight at 9-3/4 months old after plateauing for about 1 month (graph and table below). She's starting to get dense muscle wise because I can see she's visually getting more buff and packing on muscle! I noticed she is getting stronger too because she effortlessly leaps on the bed now where she would previously climb up it before. When she jumps vertically her nose is now as high as my eyes (5'6") where it was maybe to my chest.

I don't have enough experience to know if it means her body's starting to get ready to go through a change like heat, or if it's just growth plates doing growth plates things, or if it's "just normal". I know hormones and puberty play a role in muscle development like when a middle school athlete grows into a high schooler. So it has my radar up.

Her genitals are still petite like the size of a dried appricot. Her vulva is definitely not 2-3x in size. I chopped down her pubes so I'm certain I would notice if she went from a dried appricot to an Italian plum.

My vet's closed today (Sat.). I was just searching some keywords on the forums but didn't see anything relating the two, but I feel even more equipt for when it happens. I just ordered super cute patterned diapers on amazon and they'll be here in a few days.

For her environment, nothing has changed besides eating more, which makes sense. Same kibble (free feed). Same morning chicken thigh. Same love and attention from Dad. Same need for 12+ hours of sleep.

I know it's hard to predict or know, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen a similar weight pattern before their poodles had their first heat. I suppose I'll know when it happens. Boys are so much less complicated.

What do you think?

473155


(Taken yesterday, 1/22)
473156

(She had a touch up groom yesterday - 1 inch on tail, body, topknot. 1/2 inch on ears. Poms are scissored and roughly 2 inches long. About 7 days since I shaved her face, body and arms.)

(Taken minutes ago)
473157
 

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I think that is a pretty typical weight gain for a young standard. Poppy was her full height by 10 months but gradually put on muscle and some weight for several months after she got adult height. I had her spayed at 14 months as she needed another minor surgery at that time. She had not yet come into heat at that time. I have known the to go to 18-22 months before going into heat. None of your girls symptoms point to a heat cycle.
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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I’m not sure you can predict it. Peggy stayed the same height and weight from 8.5 months (when she had her first heat) until 18 months, and then had another massive growth spurt before her third heat. I haven’t weighed her yet, but she shot up 2 inches in just a couple of months.

They’re all unique snowflakes. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think that is a pretty typical weight gain for a young standard. Poppy was her full height by 10 months but gradually put on muscle and some weight for several months after she got adult height. I had her spayed at 14 months as she needed another minor surgery at that time. She had not yet come into heat at that time. I have known the to go to 18-22 months before going into heat. None of your girls symptoms point to a heat cycle.
Hmmm. Okay. Yeah, I haven't been tracking height. I need to try the measure app from @PeggyTheParti 's thread another shot again. It sounds like there's no relation and maybe no connection between the growth and heat.


I’m not sure you can predict it. Peggy stayed the same height and weight from 8.5 months (when she had her first heat) until 18 months, and then had another massive growth spurt before her third heat. I haven’t weighed her yet, but she shot up 2 inches in just a couple of months.

They’re all unique snowflakes. :)
haha yes, hey are all unique snowflakes. It's such a wide range that not knowing is nerve racking. The vet said if she didn't go into heat by late summer, then it will be early spring. We've seen the robbins (ha) native to Washington start to fly through and the tulips start to sprout which indicate it's early spring soon. So, I'm waiting, and thinking it's going to happen soon.

It's reassuring to know the two might not be related so I can chill out. I'll be prepared with really cute diapers.

I would still like to hear from anyone else who wants to chime in :)
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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Hmmm. I wonder why your vet said that.

We didn’t even have a chance to build up any anticipation. Peggy’s first heat happened last February, in the middle of winter, and it was a total shock. We had plans to go away for the weekend, for my husband’s birthday, and we were so lucky our poodle sitter was comfortable with blood and diapers.

Reading back through my panicky thread now makes me so sad. I was talking about our vacation plans for June 2020!


Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Remember when plans were a thing?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hmmm. I wonder why your vet said that.

We didn’t even have a chance to build up any anticipation. Peggy’s first heat happened last February, in the middle of winter, and it was a total shock. We had plans to go away for the weekend, for my husband’s birthday, and we were so lucky our poodle sitter was comfortable with blood and diapers.

Reading back through my panicky thread now makes me so sad. I was talking about our vacation plans for June 2020!


Waaahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Remember when plans were a thing?
Yeah, I don't know why. I supposed we still have some time left in winter.

There's a lot to unpack in that thread. I'll definitely need to refrence this thread later.

Plans... Dr Fauchi said something optimstic about a return to normalcy late spring/early summer (don't quote me). Hopefully Mr Inslee can pull it together.
 

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Hi PF community,

Basil, SPOO, is starting to put on weight at 9-3/4 months old after plateauing for about 1 month (graph and table below). She's starting to get dense muscle wise because I can see she's visually getting more buff and packing on muscle! I noticed she is getting stronger too because she effortlessly leaps on the bed now where she would previously climb up it before. When she jumps vertically her nose is now as high as my eyes (5'6") where it was maybe to my chest.

I don't have enough experience to know if it means her body's starting to get ready to go through a change like heat, or if it's just growth plates doing growth plates things, or if it's "just normal". I know hormones and puberty play a role in muscle development like when a middle school athlete grows into a high schooler. So it has my radar up.

Her genitals are still petite like the size of a dried appricot. Her vulva is definitely not 2-3x in size. I chopped down her pubes so I'm certain I would notice if she went from a dried appricot to an Italian plum.

My vet's closed today (Sat.). I was just searching some keywords on the forums but didn't see anything relating the two, but I feel even more equipt for when it happens. I just ordered super cute patterned diapers on amazon and they'll be here in a few days.

For her environment, nothing has changed besides eating more, which makes sense. Same kibble (free feed). Same morning chicken thigh. Same love and attention from Dad. Same need for 12+ hours of sleep.

I know it's hard to predict or know, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen a similar weight pattern before their poodles had their first heat. I suppose I'll know when it happens. Boys are so much less complicated.

What do you think?

View attachment 473155

(Taken yesterday, 1/22)
View attachment 473156
(She had a touch up groom yesterday - 1 inch on tail, body, topknot. 1/2 inch on ears. Poms are scissored and roughly 2 inches long. About 7 days since I shaved her face, body and arms.)

(Taken minutes ago)
View attachment 473157
BtS – Thank you for posting this. I track Basil’s progress as she’s about three weeks older than Happy. Happy’s weight has plateaued at 37lbs for the last six weeks. As of three weeks ago her vet said she’s at a good weight for her age. I too have noticed an increase in toned muscle mass in Happy. Please keep this thread going.
 

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Remember that if you measure height on a dog with a fair amount of coat they will measure taller than they really are. A wicket is the best measuring tool Right now a measuring app would tell me Javelin is somewhere between 26 and 27" at the withers, but I know he is not taller than 24".
 

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Mia, Christmas in June 2010
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It sounds like there's no relation and maybe no connection between the growth and heat.
Another vote for there being no relationship between heats and growth. Mia hit a few plateaus in weight and/or height as she was growing, and they didn't coincide with her heats.

And did you write on another thread that spoos reach full size at 12 months? I would push back on that thought. My understanding is that most spoos are fully grown by 24 months. Some spoos finish by 18 months, but many will have another spurt closer to 24 months. Apologies if I'm misremembering. My Packers are getting walloped by Tom Brady at home (!!) and I'm a mite upset.
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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Remember that if you measure height on a dog with a fair amount of coat they will measure taller than they really are. A wicket is the best measuring tool Right now a measuring app would tell me Javelin is somewhere between 26 and 27" at the withers, but I know he is not taller than 24".
Yep. Good point. I unconsciously accounted for Peggy’s inch of coat when using the app, but a pencil pressed horizontally against the withers also works great. And it’s easy to erase a pencil mark off most walls.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
BtS – Thank you for posting this. I track Basil’s progress as she’s about three weeks older than Happy. Happy’s weight has plateaued at 37lbs for the last six weeks. As of three weeks ago her vet said she’s at a good weight for her age. I too have noticed an increase in toned muscle mass in Happy. Please keep this thread going.
Okay, for sure. These came next day (Yay Amazon Prime), Basil's wearing a large, her waist measured 20 inches. It's comfortable fit.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08CCV79TH?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

473188

473189

(I'm getting a lot of glares as expected)

I have some pads too coming too from amazon since it's not something I have.

Remember that if you measure height on a dog with a fair amount of coat they will measure taller than they really are. A wicket is the best measuring tool Right now a measuring app would tell me Javelin is somewhere between 26 and 27" at the withers, but I know he is not taller than 24".
Thank you for mentioning that, Ill be sure to press into the hair. I've been dragging my heels and I might just end up taping a measuring tape to the wall and doing it old fashion.

I had no clue what a wicket was until today.

Another vote for there being no relationship between heats and growth. Mia hit a few plateaus in weight and/or height as she was growing, and they didn't coincide with her heats.

And did you write on another thread that spoos reach full size at 12 months? I would push back on that thought. My understanding is that most spoos are fully grown by 24 months. Some spoos finish by 18 months, but many will have another spurt closer to 24 months. Apologies if I'm misremembering. My Packers are getting walloped by Tom Brady at home (!!) and I'm a mite upset.
Okay, thanks for the vote.

You're good! Yeah, I mentioned 12 months but I'm still new to furparentship and SPOOs that some areas are still big question marks based off all the collective information.

Once the Seahawks we're out we were rooting for the Packers too. Sad day.
 

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It sounds like you’re prepared!
Lacey only had one heat cycle before she was spayed and it ended up not being a big deal at all. I know the second one might be a little more rocky from what PeggyTheParti shared.

There’s not a lot of blood and discharge (especially the first one). She just became temporarily cuddly at an age where cuddle wasn’t in her vocabulary. I actually felt a little emotional for her at first, being that I thought of her as becoming a woman, lol! She was and to me still is a puppy.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It sounds like you’re prepared!
Lacey only had one heat cycle before she was spayed and it ended up not being a big deal at all. I know the second one might be a little more rocky from what PeggyTheParti shared.

There’s not a lot of blood and discharge (especially the first one). She just became temporarily cuddly at an age where cuddle wasn’t in her vocabulary. I actually felt a little emotional for her at first, being that I thought of her as becoming a woman, lol! She was and to me still is a puppy.
I'm constantly looking at her back end to see if anything looks or smells fishier, part of me thinks I'm paranoid. For example, car shopping, you don't take a second glance at red trucks on any normal day, but once you start car shopping for red trucks you notice every red truck you pass. So, I'm trying to be objective and trying my best to decipher what's going on back there.

We went to the park for dogs Saturday for the first time and someone asked about her heat cycle. Basil was getting some attention from a 6-mo old golden retreaver boy. I thought he was just smelling butts as dogs do. I mentioned "we're still waiting". Of course, later that night scenarios are running through my head "what if all those pretty boys caused her body to go into heat, like a bunch of horny middle schoolers!"

And then surprisingly the third’s been bliss. ¯\(ツ)
Hmm, hopefully Basil's the same way.
 

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I can empathize with the "omg is she going into heat?!" paranoia. Annie ended up never going into heat by age 18 months when she was spayed, but I sure worried about it!

I sent an email to her breeder when she was about 6 months who was really reassuring. I had been traumatized by the vet who insisted at 6 months she was going to fly into heat at any moment and somehow produce a litter of puppies as a teenage pregnancy.

Annie's breeder told me when her girls usually go into heat (20-22 months), suggested I leave off spaying for as long as possible (contract was 12-18 months, but she was ok with awaiting until 2), and said that if I chose 18 months, I would probably not have to deal with a heat. She was right. But she also told me I would notice a heat long before the dog became fertile (googling what part of the heat cycle a dog is fertile was also reassuring).

Anyway, she suggested the paper towel test if I was unsure.

Picture me, anytime I became paranoid because a male dog even glanced in Annie's direction, grabbing a paper towel and gently patting the area in question to check for discharge/blood. Very reassuring.

Annie tolerated it but seemed to do a teenage roll of the eyes.... "Really? This again?!"
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You’re making me laugh
:)

I can empathize with the "omg is she going into heat?!" paranoia. Annie ended up never going into heat by age 18 months when she was spayed, but I sure worried about it!

I sent an email to her breeder when she was about 6 months who was really reassuring. I had been traumatized by the vet who insisted at 6 months she was going to fly into heat at any moment and somehow produce a litter of puppies as a teenage pregnancy.

Annie's breeder told me when her girls usually go into heat (20-22 months), suggested I leave off spaying for as long as possible (contract was 12-18 months, but she was ok with awaiting until 2), and said that if I chose 18 months, I would probably not have to deal with a heat. She was right. But she also told me I would notice a heat long before the dog became fertile (googling what part of the heat cycle a dog is fertile was also reassuring).

Anyway, she suggested the paper towel test if I was unsure.

Picture me, anytime I became paranoid because a male dog even glanced in Annie's direction, grabbing a paper towel and gently patting the area in question to check for discharge/blood. Very reassuring.

Annie tolerated it but seemed to do a teenage roll of the eyes.... "Really? This again?!"
Sunday evening I put on one of her diapers to test the size and I immediately freaked out (just feeding the paranoia):

473212


This is after I gave her a bath, so I'm "Well it's either A, B, or C.". I haven't looked at enough used pads in my life to say definitively if it's blood/discharge. So, I assumed it's residual pee and threw it in the wash. (The paranoia begins to rise...)

Sunday evening I'm chilling in bed, Basil starts licking herself and I get the whift of that fishy smell. It's a pretty unmistakable smell, so I go in for a closer whiff. Nothing. Okaaayy.. maybe it was nothing maybe it was something. (Paranoia continues building...)

Then, I'm starting to look around her backside. I start questioning what Im looking at and start time stamping pictures as to build a case to prove what I'm seeing.

The area between her anus and vagina is looking plump. So I start this rabbit trail, "was that there 4 days ago??? It's not like picture online, but it looks different"
473214


473215

(Next to a quarter for size reference lol)

Lastly, last night and this morning she's been smelling more intensely, being more scared and jumpy, and moody on our walks... Like stopping all of a sudden multiple times or sitting down like a statue... Like she's being unusually stubborn. So, I just let her pick where we walked rather then coaxing her with treats.

It's just been one thing after another. Again, I think it's also partly because my brain is looking for triggers.

So, that's where we are.

I just did a pat test on Basil with a paper towel. Nothing. Whew
 

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Peggy Sue, Standard Poodle Born May 2019
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Peggy went through a fear period around 8 months. We took it easy for a week (our groomer actually stopped mid-appointment and just let her play because she was suddenly afraid of the brush!) and she came out of it fine. And she has no fishy smell with her heat cycle. All fishy smells come from her anal glands. Such fun. (Crying.)
 
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