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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello.

I'm trying to do more research on poodles to see if they're the right breed for me. I've had goldens as the dogs in my house and heard that Standards and minis poodles are bit more reserved towards strangers. And was trying to find a mini parti poodle breeder that has health testing like Cosmic Calibers near OHIO or PA hopefully. I would be willing to drive five hours for a dog/puppy.

Anyway, I have questions about eyes in poodles. I know that Goldens have to go to the ophthalmologist ever year to prevent pigmentary uveitis(sp?). Do poodles have the same issue as well? And should I avoid buying from breeders that don't eye test their dogs regularly if they're still breeding or showing them?

Can anyone tell me about the temperament, their energy level, and any health issues in certain breedings of Cosmic Caliber poodles versus Anolani poodles?
 

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Dont know about the US but in many European countries breeding poodles do have to get an ECVO (European College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists) exam within a certain timeframe of breeding. In addition to a DNA test for PRA. The ECVO exam checks for physical signs of cataracts, PRA and other eye issues.

However, I have never heard of eye issues being so prevalent in the breed that non-breeding dogs with no symptoms have to get a regular check.
 

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Also the requirement for an ECVO exam is not unique to poodles. Its one of the most common health testing requirements for all kinds of breeds in Europe.
 

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Hi,

Health testing first...

There are two types of testing, phenotype testing (basically a visual or physical exam or testing) and genotype testing (DNA).

The OFA testing is a sort of minimum standard for any purebred and now, even some "hybrid" dogs.
Start here Browse By Breed | Orthopedic Foundation for Animals | Columbia, MO
and explore the drop list. Some will apply to available poodle testing.
For additional DNA testing, independent labs such as PawPrint and Embark offer DNA panels by breed.

Example: Paw Print Genetics - Tests for Poodle

From OFA (Orthopedic Foundation for Animals)

The OFA, working with the breed's parent club, recommends the following basic health screening tests for all breeding stock. Dogs meeting these basic health screening requirements will be issued Canine Health Information Center (CHIC) numbers. For CHIC certification, all results do not need to be normal, but they must all be in the public domain so that responsible breeders can make more informed breeding decisions. For potential puppy buyers, CHIC certification is a good indicator the breeder responsibly factors good health into their selection criteria. The breed specific list below represents the basic health screening recommendations. It is not all encompassing. There may be other health screening tests appropriate for this breed. And, there may be other health concerns for which there is no commonly accepted screening protocol available.



Standard Poodle
  • Hip Dysplasia (One of the following)
    OFA Evaluation
    PennHIP Evaluation
  • Eye Examination
    Eye Examination by a boarded ACVO Ophthalmologist
  • Health Elective (One of the following tests) (One of the following)
    OFA Thyroid evaluation from an approved laboratory
    OFA SA Evaluation from an approved dermapathologist
    Congenital Cardiac Exam
    Advanced Cardiac Exam
    Basic Cardiac Exam

Versatility in Poodles is a great all round poodle resource
Home - Versatility In Poodles, Inc.

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You'll find some AKC breeders and UKC breeders breeding registered parti's. Miniature parti's are going to be a harder find. AKC doesn't allow parti's to compete in conformation but do allow participation in all other events. UKC allows parti's in conformation but they compete against other parti's.

This means you'll find fewer breeders of the caliber you're wisely looking for.

UKC and Gooddog.com are good sources for parti breeders.

Tintlet Poodles comes up when an AKC part breeder is asked for.

You'll find links to some of these in this list.


I'm going to add some info about selecting a quality, conscientious breeder and the link above to the Breeder List compiled from member recommendations thru the years.

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.
(Flying a pup with a flight nanny can be done, and is successfully, by many. I personally couldn't as I want to be the person my new pup tries to rely on from the moment they leave their mother and siblings.)

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.


As a sort of checklist of things to look for or ask, this is my personal criteria (I have another more detailed but just this for now):

My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these things matter in finding a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Simply being advertised as "registered" or even "purebred" doesn't mean that a puppy is well bred.


Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)

My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They prove their dogs meet breed standards and are physically capable by breeding from sires and dams proven in competition or participating in other activities.
They do not cross breed.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.


The Breeder List is not a complete list so be sure to look at the Multi listings too. Every name on the list has been recommended by a PF member or several, or I have found them by searching thru websites for breeders that the recommended breeder also recommends. Then I went to every website and/or the OFA site and/or a general internet search to verify any health testing done. I only did this initially, before adding them to the list. It's up to the seeker to verify the breeders current standing.

Definitely use the Poodle Clubs for breeder referral too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Ignore my poor formatting

You'll find some AKC breeders and UKC breeders breeding registered parti's. Miniature parti's are going to be a harder find. AKC doesn't allow parti's to compete in conformation but do allow participation in all other events. UKC allows parti's in conformation but they compete against other parti's.

This means you'll find fewer breeders of the caliber you're wisely looking for.
[Quote/]

So there's very few mini breeders breeding partis that do all the health testing like Cosmic Caliber says that they do? Well, I'll just wait on a Standard poodle breeding from Cosmic Caliber that I like and hopefully get a puppy then.


A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.
You mean doublecheck OFA to make sure that the breeder is saying what they did actually happened and then ask people in the breed community if they're legit. Isn't that what you're supposed to do? Anyway, expired eye exams aren't a red flag in poodle breeders because expired eye exams are a red flag in certain breeds like goldens, right?

So, is there something like k9data for poodles? k9data is basically a dog lineage site for goldens and labs if I remember right.



When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.


I'll happily wait on the right litter with the colors that I prefer and will tell the breeder to ignore color preference if the right puppy fits my lifestyle. But I have a silly question if pup look likes one of their parent in the exact same color as their parent's did as a pup then shouldn't the pup look like its parent when it grows up? I mean that the pup won't exactly look the same if the pup has a different build or grows a bit smaller or larger than expected but that makes sense other than the color change thing. Can you go a bit more in depth than that?

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.
Cosmic Caliber is a bit of a drive but I'll get over there when the time comes.
 

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So there's very few mini breeders breeding partis that do all the health testing

I'm saying that there's not many mini parti breeders, with or without health testing, that I've learned of.
It's worth checking the sources. I usually find out by researching.


You mean doublecheck OFA to make sure that the breeder is saying what they did actually happened and then ask people in the breed community if they're legit.

Yes, verify any health testing.A guarantee from a breeder who doesn't do the health testing often excludes conditions which can and should have been tested for.
Rather than asking if legit, ask who they'd recommend and research them.

expired eye exams aren't a red flag in poodle breeders

This eye exam is to be repeated annually. I wouldn't throw the brakes on but would assess it in the whole package and I'd ask the breeder. This last year has had an impact on keeping testing updated. (for other varieties, the PRA-prcd DNA testing is once and done.)

So, is there something like k9data for poodles? k9data is basically a dog lineage site for goldens and labs if I remember right.

There are databases but many are staffed by volunteers and those volunteers are not being replaced. Resources are disappearing. Some links are in the Breeder list.

if pup look likes one of their parent in the exact same color as their parent's did as a pup then shouldn't the pup look like its parent when it grows up? I mean that the pup won't exactly look the same if the pup has a different build or grows a bit smaller or larger than expected but that makes sense other than the color change thing.


Not quite sure if you're asking about what will happen to the pup's color or pattern or structure or all of these.
I can say that poodle color genetics is a very interesting and complicated study.

There's recessive genes which can pop up several generations removed and that most poodle colors are fading colors.
Do a search on poodle coat color genetics and you'll see.
 

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Cowpony gave some great information. I can confirm that the people who are most likely to do thorough genetic testing are people who show their dogs. People who show are trying to breed the best quality dogs with excellent health profiles. Since the AKC standard specifies solid colors, it is very uncommon that such breeders will have parti-colors.
 

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Cowpony gave some great information. I can confirm that the people who are most likely to do thorough genetic testing are people who show their dogs. People who show are trying to breed the best quality dogs with excellent health profiles. Since the AKC standard specifies solid colors, it is very uncommon that such breeders will have parti-colors.
Rose did the saying ;), but I agree nonetheless.

UKC, unlike AKC, does have separate classes for multi-colored dogs. Cosmic Caliber is a name that pops up if you look for show results, so I think they are definitely worth checking out. You could also find other breeders by looking at show results. Unfortunately, I have found a few UKC show breeders who got into doodles or high volume breeding, so it's still caveat emptor.
 

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Rose did the saying ;), but I agree nonetheless.

UKC, unlike AKC, does have separate classes for multi-colored dogs. Cosmic Caliber is a name that pops up if you look for show results, so I think they are definitely worth checking out. You could also find other breeders by looking at show results. Unfortunately, I have found a few UKC show breeders who got into doodles or high volume breeding, so it's still caveat emptor.
I'm afraid I am very prejudiced against UKC - because I knew the fellow who started it. I really do not think it is necessary to have two registry organizations.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm afraid I am very prejudiced against UKC - because I knew the fellow who started it. I really do not think it is necessary to have two registry organizations.
Wasn't the UKC basically created by Pitbull breeders because the AKC refused to recognized the American Pitbull Terrier as a dog breed if I remember my dog fancier history, correctly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Rose did the saying ;), but I agree nonetheless.

UKC, unlike AKC, does have separate classes for multi-colored dogs. Cosmic Caliber is a name that pops up if you look for show results, so I think they are definitely worth checking out. You could also find other breeders by looking at show results. Unfortunately, I have found a few UKC show breeders who got into doodles or high volume breeding, so it's still caveat emptor.
I've looked into Cosmic Caliber because they don't breed doodles and they try to have all of their poodles health tested which I liked. I'm trying to do research into the pros and cons of Cosmic Caliber and Anolani to see which kennel might suit my wants better.
 

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I've looked into Cosmic Caliber because they don't breed doodles and they try to have all of their poodles health tested which I liked. I'm trying to do research into the pros and cons of Cosmic Caliber and Anolani to see which kennel might suit my wants better.
I think both breeders are worth talking to, although Anolani is unlikely to have parti. Another couple worth checking out are Perigueux and Shyre.

Within a kennel and even within a litter there will be variation in the personalities. The breeder should be able to advise on the general personality range expected from the litter. When I got my current boy I had this exact scenario. The breeder had two bitches whelp about two weeks apart. I ended up with a blue puppy, not my first choice of color, because the breeder felt his litter would be mellower than the other litter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thank you. If the right pup comes along then I could care less about color.

Was looking at Anolani because Cosmic Caliber seem to be breeding higher energy Poodles from what it sounds like in their current breeding plans and they're a bit closer to my house.
Are higher energy conformation bred Poodles like sport/agility bred Border Collies or more like hunting line Poodles/Goldens?
 

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What temperament and drive level are you wanting? What activities are you thinking of doing?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Biddable and easy going to trick training with hand signals like I do with my cats. Moderate energy like the golden retrievers that I lived with and easily managed prey drive, I guess.

Activities would be trick training for fun if I don't have access to intro dog sport classes. Intro to sport class would be either to agility or scent work.
 
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