[rnjlsal]

We have an 7 month old spoo, what do we need to know about bloat ?

 

[MaizieFrosty]

We have an 7 month old spoo, what do we need to know about bloat ?

Gastric Dilatation-Volvulus (BLOAT) | Poodle Forum

Both of my dogs got gastropexies when they were altered. Gives me a little peace of mind, but I'm still mindful of the sx.

 

[Starla]

Did you read the wonderful sticky in this sub? My girl is getting a pexy with her spay in the fall/winter. It’s well worth the additional $250, imo.

 

[Rose n Poos]

In addition to the Sticky I'm going to copy some info from a few threads in PF, sticking with the more current. They're not necessarily going to be in any order of information.

Pexy can reduce incidence of future bloat and torsion. Bloat can still happen, can become dangerous, and torsion could happen if the stomach detaches.
Numbers and percentages vary with study, depending on the nature, focus, and sampling of the study.

RECURRENCE
Without gastropexy, the rate of recurrence of GDV is 55% to 75%, and median survival times are significantly shorter than for patients treated surgically.10,21,25 Therefore, surgery should always be recommended. In two studies,26,27 the rate of recurrence of GDV after gastropexy was 0%, but recurrence has been documented rarely.10,28 Occurrence of gastric dilatation after gastropexy is reported as 5% to 11%.21,25–27
Gastric Dilatation and Volvulus: Stabilization and Surgery - Today's Veterinary Practice (todaysveterinarypractice.com)

The outlook for bloat is brightening, with increasing interest in surgery to prevent GDV. Prophylactic gastropexy surgically attaches the stomach to the abdominal wall to prevent twisting. “While some dogs with gastropexy will still bloat, (gastric dilatation), the gastropexy should prevent their stomach from twisting (volvulus) and the need for emergency surgery,” says Dr. Rawlings. “It’s rare, if ever, for gastropexied dogs to have a life-threatening bloat.”
AKC Canine Health Foundation | Preventing Torsion When Bloating with Prophylactic Gastropexy (akcchf.org)

There doesn't seem to be any official record of a dog dying of a new torsion after a pexy from a reliable site, but no medical site will say it cannot happen.
As Starvt noted, the pexy can come undone/detached.
There's a number of methods mentioned in this link. I don't know which is most prevalent currently for prophylactic surgery.
Occurrence and recurrence of gastric dilatation with or without volvulus after incisional gastropexy (nih.gov)


Military Working Dogs US
(e) Final Acceptance. Dogs meeting medical and training criteria are officially accepted, given a permanent tattoo number and assigned an ideal weight range. Intact females and cryptorchid males are neutered at this time, any necessary dental care is performed, and all dogs receive a prophylactic gastropexy. Dogs enter training following recovery...

b. GDV was a major cause of death in MWDs for decades; however, GDV is a rare occurrence in DOD MWDs now, since performance of a prophylactic gastropexy was instituted in 2009 for all new DOD MWDs. In this procedure, a permanent surgical adhesion between the stomach and inner peritoneal wall is created during an elective procedure that prevents volvulus and has dramatically reduced the incidence of GDV and gastric dilatation in the MWD population. However, veterinary personnel may still encounter emergently ill working dogs with GDV, because most Special Operations Forces, contractor and allied working dogs have not been prophylactically gastropexied. Although rare, failure of the surgical adhesion site after a gastropexy has been reported.

ARN17825_TBMED298_FINAL.pdf (army.mil)

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There's ongoing research on bloat but no smoking gun yet for the identifiable, fixable cause. These two links have fairly current information. A gastropexy can't prevent bloat of course, but can buy enough time to get medical help.

Bloat: Gastric Dilatation and Volvulus in Dogs | VCA Animal Hospital (vcahospitals.com)

Dog Bloat: Causes, Signs, and Symptoms - Whole Dog Journal (whole-dog-journal.com)

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Thought I might pop in to clarify some things about bloat and risk factors!

To start with, like RnP said, we don't get know the true "cause" of bloat, but there are a lot of predisposing factors. Poodles fit the mark because of their keel-shapes chests (large difference in the diameter of their chest versus their abdomen) and, for standards, being a large breed dog. Other factors are single large meals, raised feeding, and exercise before and after eating. The single best predictive value is genetics. If a relative has bloated, your poodle has approximately a 50% chance of bloating too.

There are a lot of things you can do management-wise to mitigate these risks, and the best preventative measures for serious illness/death is a gastropexy. This can be done laparoscopically or with a traditional incision. Lap surgeries generally have an easier recovery, but are much more expensive because of the equipment required. The thing about gastropexy is that it doesn't prevent bloat, but it does prevent GDV.

Gastric dilatation and volvulus is the fatal consequence of bloat. Bloat just means the stomach has filled with something, in most cases air, but sometimes dogs get "food bloat" as well. If the stomach becomes significantly enlarged, it can twist on its axis, preventing contents from moving either into the intestines or being vomited up. This can become deadly because the blood vessels leading to the stomach are compromised, leading to shock and rapid death. A dog whose stomach has twisted has a 50/50 chance of survival after 4 hours have passed. Surgery is the only treatment, which is always very expensive and is generally only done at emergency clinics. My GP office does not do them anymore because we do not have the tools to remove part of the stomach if necessary or the staffing for overnight monitoring. We had a beautiful apricot standard come in to my clinic that I diagnosed with GDV. I got him to an ER as soon as I could, and $5,000 later he was okay. At the time of his surgery, they also pexyed him. With that pexy, he can still bloat. However, with the stomach being tacked to the abdominal wall, it should not be able to twist over. Treatment for simple bloat is pharmaceutical, not surgical, so much less risky. Without the stomach twisting, you also have more time to find a vet.

If you are concerned about GDV, I definitely recommend getting the gastropexy procedure done and continuing to mitigate those risks above. By the nature of free feeding, that is preventing large meals and encouraging frequent small meals, which is ideal. I would also say you don't have to wait two hours after feeding to allow exercise. The stomach starts to empty pretty quickly, so I generally recommend around 30-60 minutes of rest.

 

[Heartland2022]

I would avoid raised feeders a lot of misinformation online about the subject. This forum has good information on it though. I've even seen some places online recommend raised feeders to reduce the risk of bloat. Check out this research after reading it I checked with my vet she concurred. Non-dietary risk factors for gastric dilatation-volvulus in large and giant breed dogs - PubMed

 

[SandyTopknot]

@Rose n Poos THANK YOU for the comprehensive info on bloat and GVD. So helpful!!! 💖 💖 💖

 

[94Magna_Tom]

I've noticed if Elroy takes a drink from the hose at my waist level (hose with a shower attachment sprayer actually), which is apparently fun for him, he will cough due to drinking it. I have to shoo him away while watering my gardens with my shower sprayer. If I lower it to ground level and let him drink from it, he's fine, no coughing. They're designed to lap up water, not to pour it down their throats. Gravity required. I imagine a raised water bowl has a similar affect. Not only water down the windpipe (that makes him cough), but at the same time he's more than likely gulping air into his stomach. Needless to say I don't let him do it from waist level.

 

[Rose n Poos]

@Rose n Poos THANK YOU for the comprehensive info on bloat and GVD. So helpful!!! 💖 💖 💖

Happy to be helpful . I'm grateful for DogtorDoctor verifying and clarifying!

 

[Max Power]

Post #5 is spot on.

My SPoo girl bloated at 3 with a complete twist. We were lucky to live about half and hour from the University of Utrecht Vet School. They were waiting for us at 3:30 am and got our girl into surgery. She lived another 12 years.

Other risk factors that I did not see mentioned include 1) eating one large meal a day and 2) allowing play/excercise within 2 hours after eating.

Poodles are pretty good at self regulating. At least all ours were. We would let them nibble all day long and they never really gorged themselves. If your dog wants to pig out like a lab at dinner time, then break your meals up to four small meals a day and no playing for two hours afterwards. This also helps with pancreas issues.

 

[Mfmst]

It is so great to have a veterinarian weigh in. Thank you, Dogtordoctor. If I had a female Spoo, 100%, she would have had a Gastropexy when spayed. Same general area, but I have a male,so major abdominal surgery and a different calculus. Unless someone has found statistics to prove otherwise, it does happen with deep chested dogs, but it is not a given. I opted not to do a pexy on my male, Buck.

 

[MaizieFrosty]

It is so great to have a veterinarian weigh in. Thank you, Dogtordoctor. If I had a female Spoo, 100%, she would have had a Gastropexy when spayed. Same general area, but I have a male,so major abdominal surgery and a different calculus. Unless someone has found statistics to prove otherwise, it does happen with deep chested dogs, but it is not a given. I opted not to do a pexy on my male, Buck.

Frosty had a laparoscopic pexy, and he was feeling like himself some by the next day! He also only had to be restricted from exercise for 5 to 7 days. It was a very easy surgery for him. Maizie had a much harder time, poor girl. But I would definitely pexy any future sooo.
When I have time, I’ll try to reply to some of these other comments on the thread because they are inaccurate, According to the recent veterinary seminar that I attended. For instance, there is no causal link to bloat/GDV in dogs that exercise before or after eating.

 

[Happy'sDad]

Frosty had a laparoscopic pexy, and he was feeling like himself some by the next day! He also only had to be restricted from exercise for 5 to 7 days. It was a very easy surgery for him. Maizie had a much harder time, poor girl. But I would definitely pexy any future sooo.
When I have time, I’ll try to reply to some of these other comments on the thread because they are inaccurate, According to the recent veterinary seminar that I attended. For instance, there is no causal link to bloat/GDV in dogs that exercise before or after eating.

Please come back soon as I'm very interested in what you have to report. I confess I worry more about GDV than a North Korean attack.

 

[Starla]

Frosty had a laparoscopic pexy, and he was feeling like himself some by the next day! He also only had to be restricted from exercise for 5 to 7 days. It was a very easy surgery for him. Maizie had a much harder time, poor girl. But I would definitely pexy any future sooo.
When I have time, I’ll try to reply to some of these other comments on the thread because they are inaccurate, According to the recent veterinary seminar that I attended. For instance, there is no causal link to bloat/GDV in dogs that exercise before or after eating.

Please do. I also thought it had been found that raised bowls were not actually linked to bloat as well? A matter of correlation, not causation. Though a glance at the study linked would say that’s not true. 🤷‍♀️ I think it will be a huge relief to have Phoebe pexied, more than spayed.

 

[Max Power]

Frosty had a laparoscopic pexy, and he was feeling like himself some by the next day! He also only had to be restricted from exercise for 5 to 7 days. It was a very easy surgery for him. Maizie had a much harder time, poor girl. But I would definitely pexy any future sooo.
When I have time, I’ll try to reply to some of these other comments on the thread because they are inaccurate, According to the recent veterinary seminar that I attended. For instance, there is no causal link to bloat/GDV in dogs that exercise before or after eating.

The information I posted was what was given to me as advice from the professors of veterinary medicine at the University of Utrecht that did the surgery on my dog in 2003. If the science has proved something else since then, I would be pleased to hear it

 

[MaizieFrosty]

Please come back soon as I'm very interested in what you have to report. I confess I worry more about GDV than a North Korean attack.

Please do. I also thought it had been found that raised bowls were not actually linked to bloat as well? A matter of correlation, not causation. Though a glance at the study linked would say that’s not true. 🤷‍♀️ I think it will be a huge relief to have Phoebe pexied, more than spayed.

The information I posted was what was given to me as advice from the professors of veterinary medicine at the University of Utrecht that did the surgery on my dog in 2003. If the science has proved something else since then, I would be pleased to hear it

@Happy'sDad @Starla @Max Power

Here is the info I posted here earlier this year. If I can find the actual webinar, I will post a link to it.

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#27 · Jan 26, 2022

I attended a veterinary webinar on GDV a year or two ago. According to the presenting vet, some of the things that are correlated with GDV are genetics, a nervous temperament, and being put in a stressful situation, such as boarding. Exercise after eating had no correlation, nor did raising food bowls. Prophylactic gastropexy was recommended for all breeds at high risk. Very glad I had mine pexied. Frosty's was lap and he recovered SO fast.