Oof, glad you’re okay!
Incident with a Pit at the dog park today
So, it's no secret that I think pits should be banned in every community and cease to exist in the future. However, we do have a few who come to the dog park and I'm used to their presence. Today it happened to be a dog I don't know, but it seemed under good control and the owner was watching it closely. It was a neutered male, maybe of middle-age. He was playing very nicely with a Lab/Newfie mix male--I did not sense any aggression, and I can read dogs well.
Well, what happened was he started walking up to me after taking a play break. I bent down to pet him and he growled and barked in my face. I screamed bloody murder--just a kneejerk reaction! The owner said, "He's all bark." I said I almost had a heart attack. I think she apologized, but boy, I was freaked at what could have happened. A dog like that could have done some serious damage to my face if he had not been "all bark."
I was shaking as I leashed up my dogs and walked out. I warned people coming into the park of what happened. They still went in, naturally.
:alberteinstein:
I also told my friend who is like a head honcho there what happened. She totally empathized, but then after I came back from training my dogs outside the park, she said something like be careful who you talk to because I think the owners heard you. I said thank you for your concern, but so what?! Why shouldn't they hear me? They should not bring an aggressive dog to the dog park! I can tell whomever I want and will continue to do so to protect people and dogs from getting hurt. Sheesh.
*Edited to add lessons learned:
1. Do not make exceptions to the pit rule (if I don't know the pit, I don't go in the park).
2. Don't pet other people's dogs.
Well, what happened was he started walking up to me after taking a play break. I bent down to pet him and he growled and barked in my face. I screamed bloody murder--just a kneejerk reaction! The owner said, "He's all bark." I said I almost had a heart attack. I think she apologized, but boy, I was freaked at what could have happened. A dog like that could have done some serious damage to my face if he had not been "all bark."
I was shaking as I leashed up my dogs and walked out. I warned people coming into the park of what happened. They still went in, naturally.
:alberteinstein:
I also told my friend who is like a head honcho there what happened. She totally empathized, but then after I came back from training my dogs outside the park, she said something like be careful who you talk to because I think the owners heard you. I said thank you for your concern, but so what?! Why shouldn't they hear me? They should not bring an aggressive dog to the dog park! I can tell whomever I want and will continue to do so to protect people and dogs from getting hurt. Sheesh.
*Edited to add lessons learned:
1. Do not make exceptions to the pit rule (if I don't know the pit, I don't go in the park).
2. Don't pet other people's dogs.
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I am glad you are all okay. I don't frequent dog parks for all sorts of reasons, that kind of thing being number one on the list. I am sure you got quite a shot of adrenaline out of that interaction. I agree too that one should make comments as they feel are needed/appropriate to owners of ill mannered dogs. They should be aware of how others perceive their dogs or else they have no feedback which they might need to respond to.
Thanks, Muggles and lily. I am still feeling the adrenaline! You know, if the dog had just barked at me, fine. But that growling first...that's what scared the heck out of me. The dog clearly has a few screws loose and the owners better be careful. I wouldn't want that thing in my home. I'd be afraid to sleep at night LOL
Glad you're ok.
I wish I could find the article/study again that I'd run across researching poodle genetic diversity but it's still hiding.
Part of what it stated was that traits are selectively bred for, i.e. unprovoked aggression in pits (bred to bait and attack bears and bulls), and that pit types will tend to become dog aggressive after 2 years of age, and that those pits that don't ever become aggressive are simply missing part of all of the gene(s) for that aggression. It's not the owners or training, it's in the genes. This I believe after doing the research.
Several days ago, there was a woman walking her dog up my street. Nothing unusual there. She had the leash in her hand but not attached to the dog. That's unusual here. The dog was definitely a pit type. I walk my 2 mini boys in this neighborhood. Many people walk their dogs and themselves in this neighborhood. Children play in this neighborhood. I called the police and reported her. I doubt anything came of it.
I wish I could find the article/study again that I'd run across researching poodle genetic diversity but it's still hiding.
Part of what it stated was that traits are selectively bred for, i.e. unprovoked aggression in pits (bred to bait and attack bears and bulls), and that pit types will tend to become dog aggressive after 2 years of age, and that those pits that don't ever become aggressive are simply missing part of all of the gene(s) for that aggression. It's not the owners or training, it's in the genes. This I believe after doing the research.
Several days ago, there was a woman walking her dog up my street. Nothing unusual there. She had the leash in her hand but not attached to the dog. That's unusual here. The dog was definitely a pit type. I walk my 2 mini boys in this neighborhood. Many people walk their dogs and themselves in this neighborhood. Children play in this neighborhood. I called the police and reported her. I doubt anything came of it.
Thank you, Rose n Poos! I have read that article in the past too, and agree 100%. I hate it when people say that aggression is caused by abuse or bad owners. Nope, it's in their genes, for sure.pit types will tend to become dog aggressive after 2 years of age, and that those pits that don't ever become aggressive are simply missing part of all of the gene(s) for that aggression. It's not the owners or training, it's in the genes. This I believe after doing the research.
... I called the police and reported her. I doubt anything came of it.
Good for you for calling to report that lady. It's always worth trying in order to keep your community safer.
I could definitely walk Lily off leash, but I don't because it is against the law. It doesn't matter that she is velcro on me or that she is friendly. It does matter to be polite and responsible and to keep your dog(s) and your neighborhood safe.
I'm glad your ok. My # 1 rule...I never pet others dogs, even if I know them unless I am extremely comfortable and have had interactions several times. I also do not do dog parks, I have thought about it and maybe should have when Renn was younger but he is happy running and fetching in the backyard. He can now catch a ball on a fly! LOL He will also drop it now for me to throw again and again. He sits drops the ball and gives it a push so it rolls over to me. Anyway I am glad your pitt experience is one you can talk about, it could have gone bad really quickly. My neighbor says her pitt is friendly and gets along with other dogs but I really doubt that it would with Renn. Renn is so excitable and jumpy and I think he would set the pitt off. Ugh I now that feeling when your heart jumps out of your chest.
I am so sorry that happened to you, and yes, you had every right to warn other people even if the owner did hear. I am sure I would have had the same reaction.
I think that this should honestly apply to all dogs, unless you really know the dog and the owner. My Miracle looks so sweet and is on the small side, but she tries really hard to go after people's feet and did bite a person in my apartment complex on the ankle (I didn't realize he was right on the other side of the door when we were coming in). I have to keep her on a very short leash in public. She would be a dog that would try to approach, too, but I don't let her. Other people don't take her reactivity seriously because of her size.Don't pet other people's dogs.
I really hate how popular pit and pit mixes have become - and championed by the social justice warriors who simply have no idea what they’re talking about. They refuse to acknowledge facts. I understand the rough and tough types that go for a pit because they like a “bad ass dog.” But the families with kids, etc - who feel like they’re proving something to the world. I feel like so many animals here are some sort of pit mix rescue. They don’t even seem to try and mitigate the risks at all. After a 4 month old lab nipped Lilah’s leg at the park (leashed) she’s been even more skittish towards other dogs. We had our idiot neighbor who is “dog sitting” and he just lets the dog run through our gated building walkways and courtyard. So this dog runs right up to us (I always keep Lilah’s leash held super short as we enter the gates because I pick her up before the stairs) Lilah freaks out and I freak out a bit, and the guy is yelling “it’s okay my dog is nice! She’s nice!” And I’m just thinking well yeah but mine ISN’T. Lilah is still skittish, and barky and snaps. And who would win in that mess? Obviously not my sub-8lb dog. She would be a snack. It’s sickening. These people think their dogs are somehow exempt from responsible dog ownership because of their gentle and kind dispositions. But if they were truly prepared to take in a pit knowing they are bred for violence, knowing a triggered pit could kill - they wouldn’t risk it. At all. I don’t think they belong at off leash dog parks either - if a pit is triggered by another rambunctious dog, it’s highly unlikely the owner would be able to recall a pit against its natural instinct to fight back.
Ohhh, so glad nothing happened to you !
This dog is a ticking bomb. He shouldn’t be allowed in dog parks and should be wearing a muzzle when out of his home.
This dog is a ticking bomb. He shouldn’t be allowed in dog parks and should be wearing a muzzle when out of his home.
Absolutely. There is a dog at the dog park owned by a trainer and he or she was recently hit and killed by a car. Even very well trained dogs can have accidents happen.I could definitely walk Lily off leash, but I don't because it is against the law. It doesn't matter that she is velcro on me or that she is friendly. It does matter to be polite and responsible and to keep your dog(s) and your neighborhood safe.
Mufar, I think you are very wise to have never introduced the dog park to Renn. Now that I already have, Maizie certainly expects it as part of her life (she LOVES it so much). Also smart not to let Renn play with the neighbor's pit. You are right that overexcitement can lead to fights.I'm glad your ok. My # 1 rule...I never pet others dogs, even if I know them unless I am extremely comfortable and have had interactions several times. I also do not do dog parks, I have thought about it and maybe should have when Renn was younger but he is happy running and fetching in the backyard. He can now catch a ball on a fly! LOL He will also drop it now for me to throw again and again. He sits drops the ball and gives it a push so it rolls over to me. Anyway I am glad your pitt experience is one you can talk about, it could have gone bad really quickly. My neighbor says her pitt is friendly and gets along with other dogs but I really doubt that it would with Renn. Renn is so excitable and jumpy and I think he would set the pitt off. Ugh I now that feeling when your heart jumps out of your chest.
Thank you for your input, Dogs4Life. I think you're right that it doesn't really even matter what breed it is, you shouldn't pet other people's dogs unless you know them really well. Most dogs at the dog park are too busy interacting with other dogs or their owners to notice you much anyway (except for Maizie who demands attention and ball throwing from every single person there).I am so sorry that happened to you, and yes, you had every right to warn other people even if the owner did hear. I am sure I would have had the same reaction.
I think that this should honestly apply to all dogs, unless you really know the dog and the owner. My Miracle looks so sweet and is on the small side, but she tries really hard to go after people's feet and did bite a person in my apartment complex on the ankle (I didn't realize he was right on the other side of the door when we were coming in). I have to keep her on a very short leash in public. She would be a dog that would try to approach, too, but I don't let her. Other people don't take her reactivity seriously because of her size.
Spot on. I wish these people would receive psychotherapy instead of adopting pits!I really hate how popular pit and pit mixes have become - and championed by the social justice warriors who simply have no idea what they’re talking about. They refuse to acknowledge facts. I understand the rough and tough types that go for a pit because they like a “bad ass dog.” But the families with kids, etc - who feel like they’re proving something to the world.
Thanks, Dechi. I totally agree!Ohhh, so glad nothing happened to you !
This dog is a ticking bomb. He shouldn’t be allowed in dog parks and should be wearing a muzzle when out of his home.
Seconded!! So glad you are safe. And that dog never needs to be at the park again. I hope you feel safe going back - but I’d definitely be alert and avoid that dog at all costs. Will the park ban owners of known aggressive dogs? Like if there’s an incident etc?
I will definitely follow my own rules better! Ugh, I had a feeling something could happen with that dog. Unfortunately, NO, the park does not ban dogs. Yet another pit severely bit a man and there were no consequences. However, he has not dared to show his face since the incident.Seconded!! So glad you are safe. And that dog never needs to be at the park again. I hope you feel safe going back - but I’d definitely be alert and avoid that dog at all costs. Will the park ban owners of known aggressive dogs? Like if there’s an incident etc?
I'm so glad you didn't get your lovely face bitten. I don't think dogs bred to be aggressive to other animals should be allowed in a dog park in the first place, not to mention dogs that are half cocked with humans. With any dog I don't know, when greeting, I always stand perpendicular to them, or even obliquely a to the dog and don't bend over it because that can be construed as an aggressive stance. So, not that it was your fault because a dog with a stable temperament who's been adequately socialized usually doesn't mind bending humans. And I seriously doubt in this case it had anything to do with it. That woman should not bring that type of dog into a dog park or let them be off leash around others. There should be a rule, not only for aggressive dogs to not be allowed but Pit bull types. Of course, that's kind of ambiguous.
What I understand from people I know who have had them as well as a friend of my daughters who rescues them or did back when I knew her, they were not bred to be aggressive to humans, quite the contrary. When fighting, the were expected to tolerate humans unknown to them to pull them out of the center of the ring by their hind legs like a wheel barrow to get them excited and more agitated. Normally, a dog might well, spin and bite someone startling them like that. And if one did, it was culled out and killed. Only dogs that were tolerant of humans doing all kinds of things to them were bred. This is their history. Dog aggression is one thing. Human aggression is entirely a separate thing to dogs.
What I think happened is that they got immensely popular and and when that happens, all kinds of unscrupulous, careless breeders come out of the woodwork to make a buck. And they don't care who they sell their pups to. And as it is, not all, but many "tough guys" who want that bad a$$ image are the ones who want these dogs. Often they're mistreated and that can make a dog aggressive to humans. And when they're bred poorly, with no consideration as to a good temperament, this is what you get...lots of dogs with screws loose who become unpredictable with humans. That is my understanding anyhow.
It's a shame. I've known a few that were nice dogs. My daughter use to babysit for a friend's pit. He had that dog for years until the dog died from old age. Emily adored that dog...very sweet, never any problem. Her girlfriend who rescued some visited her once and I met a couple of these dogs. They were sweet and she said some are and some aren't. Some aren't even dog aggressive at all.
Like most terriers, if there is a scrap or an argument over a toy or other resource and they do squabble, it won't likely be an ordinary squabble, but a bad, bad, damaging fight. Terriers can be soooo tenacious. All kinds of terriers. But these ones are big, muscular and powerful in the jaws especially, as we all know. So naturally, they can really do a number.
Anyhow, I'm sorry that dog scared you so much. I think I would have rushed home and poured myself a shot of something lol. :drink: I'd be pretty darn shaken, as I've been bitten badly before. So I'm so glad you're okay. Your lovely poodles too, could be very badly hurt. That is why, even though I've used the local dog park a little bit, I'm seriously not a fan. This park in my town has a little dog section and a big dog section... and the littles have all been super amiable dogs so far. But I hardly ever go because mine aren't that into it anyhow. But your babies love it. I just wonder what you could do to make sure nothing happens. Poodles, even the big ones aren't very tough I don't think. You might need to re-think this dog park thing and find an alternative if they don't put their foot down about certain dogs. I'm really sorry. :hug:
I kind of have mixed feelings about whether they should be eliminated completely...a little on the fence. Maybe you're right when I keep hearing of these stories and worse. But for sure owners should be fined big time if they can't keep their animals under control. :angry:
What I understand from people I know who have had them as well as a friend of my daughters who rescues them or did back when I knew her, they were not bred to be aggressive to humans, quite the contrary. When fighting, the were expected to tolerate humans unknown to them to pull them out of the center of the ring by their hind legs like a wheel barrow to get them excited and more agitated. Normally, a dog might well, spin and bite someone startling them like that. And if one did, it was culled out and killed. Only dogs that were tolerant of humans doing all kinds of things to them were bred. This is their history. Dog aggression is one thing. Human aggression is entirely a separate thing to dogs.
What I think happened is that they got immensely popular and and when that happens, all kinds of unscrupulous, careless breeders come out of the woodwork to make a buck. And they don't care who they sell their pups to. And as it is, not all, but many "tough guys" who want that bad a$$ image are the ones who want these dogs. Often they're mistreated and that can make a dog aggressive to humans. And when they're bred poorly, with no consideration as to a good temperament, this is what you get...lots of dogs with screws loose who become unpredictable with humans. That is my understanding anyhow.
It's a shame. I've known a few that were nice dogs. My daughter use to babysit for a friend's pit. He had that dog for years until the dog died from old age. Emily adored that dog...very sweet, never any problem. Her girlfriend who rescued some visited her once and I met a couple of these dogs. They were sweet and she said some are and some aren't. Some aren't even dog aggressive at all.
Like most terriers, if there is a scrap or an argument over a toy or other resource and they do squabble, it won't likely be an ordinary squabble, but a bad, bad, damaging fight. Terriers can be soooo tenacious. All kinds of terriers. But these ones are big, muscular and powerful in the jaws especially, as we all know. So naturally, they can really do a number.
Anyhow, I'm sorry that dog scared you so much. I think I would have rushed home and poured myself a shot of something lol. :drink: I'd be pretty darn shaken, as I've been bitten badly before. So I'm so glad you're okay. Your lovely poodles too, could be very badly hurt. That is why, even though I've used the local dog park a little bit, I'm seriously not a fan. This park in my town has a little dog section and a big dog section... and the littles have all been super amiable dogs so far. But I hardly ever go because mine aren't that into it anyhow. But your babies love it. I just wonder what you could do to make sure nothing happens. Poodles, even the big ones aren't very tough I don't think. You might need to re-think this dog park thing and find an alternative if they don't put their foot down about certain dogs. I'm really sorry. :hug:
I kind of have mixed feelings about whether they should be eliminated completely...a little on the fence. Maybe you're right when I keep hearing of these stories and worse. But for sure owners should be fined big time if they can't keep their animals under control. :angry:
Holy smokes! Are you kidding? That sounds like an invitation for a law suit for the city and the owner if you ask me!I will definitely follow my own rules better! Ugh, I had a feeling something could happen with that dog. Unfortunately, NO, the park does not ban dogs. Yet another pit severely bit a man and there were no consequences. However, he has not dared to show his face since the incident.
I got bitten by a mix breed dog...I think perhaps part lab (who would think that, right?) and some kind of terrier...not a big, powerful one though. This dog was not big at all...maybe 25 lbs and knee high or a little taller. He got me from the top of a fence mostly and then from the ground as.... long story but I had reconstructive surgery on my face, my forearms, throat, all over the place had big gashes and puncture wounds. My chin had a chunk taken out. I have a thin scar there. So who knows? Any dog of any breed or mix can bite and even less powerful ones can cause some serious damage.
Glad you and the dogs are okay. That was scary.
I don’t do dog parks either. I’m nervous around bully looking dogs and keep my distance.
Poodlebeguiled how awful. I’m so sorry you were attacked and left scarred. And you make an important point, any dog can be a potential, dangerous attacker.
I don’t do dog parks either. I’m nervous around bully looking dogs and keep my distance.
Poodlebeguiled how awful. I’m so sorry you were attacked and left scarred. And you make an important point, any dog can be a potential, dangerous attacker.
OMG, Pb, I had no idea you had been attacked like that! How absolutely awful.
I couldn't believe nothing came of the dog attack at my dog park. The man who got attacked is a very kind gentleman from Russia. I'm sure he could have pressed charges, but he didn't.
I couldn't believe nothing came of the dog attack at my dog park. The man who got attacked is a very kind gentleman from Russia. I'm sure he could have pressed charges, but he didn't.
Well, it probably was everything to do with it, and I totally know better :embarrassed: But still, I agree, aggressive dogs should not be allowed in the park.With any dog I don't know, when greeting, I always stand perpendicular to them, or even obliquely a to the dog and don't bend over it because that can be construed as an aggressive stance. So, not that it was your fault because a dog with a stable temperament who's been adequately socialized usually doesn't mind bending humans. And I seriously doubt in this case it had anything to do with it. That woman should not bring that type of dog into a dog park or let them be off leash around others.
You are wise to do so, Skylar!
Poodlebeguiled your explanation of how to greet a dog you don't know is excellent. I am always telling novice handlers not to bend over their dogs for all sorts of reasons (causes dog to back away to look at person for the most part), but not making yourself scary and intimidating is super super important. Presenting the smallest target you can by offering your side or oblique profile also can help minimize injuries. I think that explanation of how to handle the unknown dog greeting and recent discussion on how to end a dog fight both are really important information for all dog owners to have well learned and have clear enough heads to apply in the real world.
And yeah families with young children shouldn't have bully breeds or dogs with aggressive histories. a former student had her toddler bitten by their pit. Thankfully the child wasn't badly hurt but the dumbfounding response to my query as to whether they were getting rid of the dog was that it was not the dog's fault since the child had taken a chew toy from it!!! At the other end in terms of responsible ownership I know someone who had a rescue Aussie who had all sorts of issues when he came to her. He was afraid of men and also a resource guarder at the food bowl. She is a great trainer and helped the dog to accept being around men and had developed a very predictable routine around food that seemed to have resulted in safe management of that issue, until it didn't. The dog bit her on the face and she needed stitches. She didn't have her own children at home anymore, but there were young children in the family who came to her home. She took the dog to the town shelter to wait out a rabies observation period and took him a steak the night before he was euthanized, recognizing that his unpredictable response that resulted in her serious injury was always potentially just one wrong move away.
And yeah families with young children shouldn't have bully breeds or dogs with aggressive histories. a former student had her toddler bitten by their pit. Thankfully the child wasn't badly hurt but the dumbfounding response to my query as to whether they were getting rid of the dog was that it was not the dog's fault since the child had taken a chew toy from it!!! At the other end in terms of responsible ownership I know someone who had a rescue Aussie who had all sorts of issues when he came to her. He was afraid of men and also a resource guarder at the food bowl. She is a great trainer and helped the dog to accept being around men and had developed a very predictable routine around food that seemed to have resulted in safe management of that issue, until it didn't. The dog bit her on the face and she needed stitches. She didn't have her own children at home anymore, but there were young children in the family who came to her home. She took the dog to the town shelter to wait out a rabies observation period and took him a steak the night before he was euthanized, recognizing that his unpredictable response that resulted in her serious injury was always potentially just one wrong move away.
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