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I need some serious help

1714 Views 17 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  Daddy123, 
J
Ruby is going to lose her life very soon if she doesn't get with the program. She is a bolter, if someone opens the door, she sneaks past and runs and I mean really runs, she is FAST. If I go after her she runs the other way, if I walk away from her (a new tactic I tried) she still runs the other way. If I offer her treats she doesn't care and yet runs away.

I will use last night for an example:

My 6 year old, opened the gate and before she could close it Ruby was gone, she stayed in teh yard for a few minutes and finally took off tearing up the road in backyards etc etc. of course I went after her which meant leaving 3 children unattended. After about 10 mins I gave up and came home and told Jilly that would probably come home, this threw her into a panic and she went tearing up teh street to get her, so I again went. She was in my neighbours yard across the street, but their backyard is MASSIVE and about teh size of 3 large lots. I yelled for her, offered her cookies and treats but she looked at me and ran. Heard the baby here starts crying so went to the ownder of teh house and asked her to see if Ruby would come to her and I came home, as soon as Ruby saw her she went right to her and before I was even home, there she was carrying my monster across the street. I took her and brought her back into the house.

Now she does know to come when called, she does it in the house, or in our yard if we are playing and she does it at the school park which is fenced in and we go there every night. But everytime she bolts she gets stuck on dense and forgets what it means or chooses to ignore it....She does know basic commands, sit, come, down, don't beg and in your bed. She hasn't figured out stay yet but we are working on that....

She needs to learn to come when called no matter what, her safety depends on this, my street isn;t all the busy but come after school and before school hrs it can be deadly with busses and cars everywhere. and I know if she did get away and soemone found her that they would keep her b/c she is so social and she is so loveable and unless they would allow me to prove that she is mine by getting her chipped scanned I woudl have no hope of getting her back.

The logical thing to do is prevent her from getting out and making sure that the kids are also trained in making sure that gate is ALWAYS closed no matter what. bottom line is I need ways to make her listen to me. Someone suggested letting her get halfway out the door than shutting the door on her neck with pressure (not a lot) but I don't think I could do that...another suggested letting her run away but with a light lead (50ft or so) and when she gets to far to give it a jerk, but again I worry about hurting her. I guess the bonus is that a leash jerking is less likely to hurt her as much as a car or her falling into the wrong hands ever could.....

PLEASE help me keep Roo safe, she is a brat when she is in teh mood to bolt, its dangerous and when I took her I made a silent vow to her, myself, and my daughter to love and care for her as much as I would any other dog, pet, child, etc etc. I never had this issue with Quincy, he never strays far from me and ALWAYS comes when called, and I never taught him that he just knew I guess.
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roxy25
It sounds like she is the pack leader. You need to reverse this quickly. How much exercise does she get ?

She needs to be walked or run for a good 30-45 mins. Having a big back yard or yard does not cut it. Dogs need mental Stimulation. Walking helps this. You should also start training her in your back yard for at least 5- 10 mins daily on stay and come what most people do is tell dog to stay and then call for the come. IMO this will not teach your dog to stay properly ( some dogs yes but its not as effective) When you say stay walk a few feet away then come back to dog then reward. Just keep Practicing this until she gets it. ( your children should help you train her too)

I would get her a correction collar and take her outside with leash ( 20ft) in the front yard. start walking her around and go to the curb. tell her stay, come back to her and give her treat keep doing this daily and make each time a longer stay. another training exercise to do is walk her curb if she steps in street say "No" make her stay on curb repeat this . she will get that stepping in street is not a wanted behavior.
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J
roxy25 said:
It sounds like she is the pack leader. You need to reverse this quickly. How much exercise does she get ?

She needs to be walked or run for a good 30-45 mins. Having a big back yard or yard does not cut it. Dogs need mental Stimulation. Walking helps this. You should also start training her in your back yard for at least 5- 10 mins daily on stay and come what most people do is tell dog to stay and then call for the come. IMO this will not teach your dog to stay properly ( some dogs yes but its not as effective) When you say stay walk a few feet away then come back to dog then reward. Just keep Practicing this until she gets it. ( your children should help you train her too)

I would get her a correction collar and take her outside with leash ( 20ft) in the front yard. start walking her around and go to the curb. tell her stay, come back to her and give her treat keep doing this daily and make each time a longer stay. another training exercise to do is walk her curb if she steps in street say "No" make her stay on curb repeat this . she will get that stepping in street is not a wanted behavior.
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I hope we are on teh right track at least, we just spent 30 mins outside playing and fetching, on a really long lead, I was calling her "come" and she would trot away and I would pull the lead to me forcing her to come, after about 15 mins she realized that evem if she chooses to not come the leash will "reel" her in. She does great at sitting on command and I think she does know stay she just chooses to ignore it. So we spent a few mins having some fun, a few min son really learning, and a few mins again on fun. In the process she discovered the kiddie pool all set up and reallu enjoyed fetching her toy from the water.

As to your questions, I typically walk with her 2ce daily, first thing in teh morning we do a quick walk to the store to grab my coffee, by teh time we get home its about 15-20 mins later depending on if my kidlet dawdles. In teh evening we walk again for another 30 mins, than we go to the playground (fenced in) and have some off lead time where we work on what she knows and sometimes I add in something new. She loves to fetch, chase things, and just run. By the time we get home in teh evening we have been out sometimes and hr, sometimes 90 mins and smetimes just 45 mins. Depending on when she poops out. She thenm comes home and crashes until I wake her up to pee at 10pm than we go to bed. She is noy high strung really, but she does have her moments, she willoccasionlly get the zoomies and run and run in teh house, up and down, back and forth etc etc. I am really gonna have to work with her, as I said I don't want her killed, stolen or in the wrong hands, so I need to keep her safe.
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roxy25
jbsmomto1 said:
I hope we are on teh right track at least, we just spent 30 mins outside playing and fetching, on a really long lead, I was calling her "come" and she would trot away and I would pull the lead to me forcing her to come, after about 15 mins she realized that evem if she chooses to not come the leash will "reel" her in. She does great at sitting on command and I think she does know stay she just chooses to ignore it. So we spent a few mins having some fun, a few min son really learning, and a few mins again on fun. In the process she discovered the kiddie pool all set up and reallu enjoyed fetching her toy from the water.

As to your questions, I typically walk with her 2ce daily, first thing in teh morning we do a quick walk to the store to grab my coffee, by teh time we get home its about 15-20 mins later depending on if my kidlet dawdles. In teh evening we walk again for another 30 mins, than we go to the playground (fenced in) and have some off lead time where we work on what she knows and sometimes I add in something new. She loves to fetch, chase things, and just run. By the time we get home in teh evening we have been out sometimes and hr, sometimes 90 mins and smetimes just 45 mins. Depending on when she poops out. She thenm comes home and crashes until I wake her up to pee at 10pm than we go to bed. She is noy high strung really, but she does have her moments, she willoccasionlly get the zoomies and run and run in teh house, up and down, back and forth etc etc. I am really gonna have to work with her, as I said I don't want her killed, stolen or in the wrong hands, so I need to keep her safe.
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When you walk her does she pull or stay in front ? is she the first thing out the door ?
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J
roxy25 said:
When you walk her does she pull or stay in front ? is she the first thing out the door ?
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At the beginning of a walk, yes she is in front, at the end she is tired and stays behind me. Sometimes she will be first out the door, but am working on not letting her out the door unless she invited to try and stop the bolting and to try and teach her that first she must be invited on the walk. Quincy knows this quite well and again it's not something I have taught him really, I just re-inforce it but he seems to know, always has. Diffferent personalties I suppose, Quincy is very seriious and very old man like, where Ruby is a bit more hyper than him and more likley to take over. Out of the 2 I don't think anyone has hieracrhy, it seems to change depending on moods.

How would I get my daughter involved? Jilly has dwarfism and is about the size of a 2 year old and about 24lbs, I am hesitant to get her involved for fear she will be hurt. Ruby is about 7 lbs but she is actually a pretty strong little pup lol I'm surprised actually.
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roxy25
jbsmomto1 said:
At the beginning of a walk, yes she is in front, at the end she is tired and stays behind me. Sometimes she will be first out the door, but am working on not letting her out the door unless she invited to try and stop the bolting and to try and teach her that first she must be invited on the walk. Quincy knows this quite well and again it's not something I have taught him really, I just re-inforce it but he seems to know, always has. Diffferent personalties I suppose, Quincy is very seriious and very old man like, where Ruby is a bit more hyper than him and more likley to take over. Out of the 2 I don't think anyone has hieracrhy, it seems to change depending on moods.

How would I get my daughter involved? Jilly has dwarfism and is about the size of a 2 year old and about 24lbs, I am hesitant to get her involved for fear she will be hurt. Ruby is about 7 lbs but she is actually a pretty strong little pup lol I'm surprised actually.
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As I thought Rudy is being dominate, do not allow her to walk in front of you ever on a leash. Never let her out the door before you either. Never put leash or collar on her if she is in an excited state, wait until she is calm and submissive.

Do you let her on beds or couches? if so will she get off if you told her to?
The kids can get involved by helping make sure Rudy knows that she is low on the list in your pack. You kids should be able to tell her commands . such as off couch or bed they can practice this with her. They can also help with feeding such as making her wait and become calm to be fed. You kids can hold the bowl until she is less excited and calm. They don’t have to hold the leash they should help you with telling her to stay.
If she jumps on your kids you would need to correct this also.
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J
roxy25 said:
As I thought Rudy is being dominate, do not allow her to walk in front of you ever on a leash. Never let her out the door before you either. Never put leash or collar on her if she is in an excited state, wait until she is calm and submissive.

Do you let her on beds or couches? if so will she get off if you told her to?
The kids can get involved by helping make sure Rudy knows that she is low on the list in your pack. You kids should be able to tell her commands . such as off couch or bed they can practice this with her. They can also help with feeding such as making her wait and become calm to be fed. You kids can hold the bowl until she is less excited and calm. They don’t have to hold the leash they should help you with telling her to stay.
If she jumps on your kids you would need to correct this also.
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yep she will get off easily, just tell her to scoot and she will go lie in her own bed or sometimes the kennel. She prefers to lay under my desk most times anyway, unless I am at the couch than she wants to be with me there. I do make them wait to be fed, there can be no jumping, no spinning (quincy used to do this), no vocals, they just have to sit and wait, however Ruby has ALWAYS been very patient when it comes to food, she has always sat quietly and waited until I put it down. Quincy used to be the hyper one for that but he's stopped. She isn't allowed to jump on ANYONE, me, kids, parents, anyone and I do correct her and she is getting much better with that. We are working on not coming out the door until invited since I think this will help immensly with the bolting.
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BFF
I agree with Roxy. It does sound like she has some dominate tendencies. Even though it sounds like you have most things under control most of the time, she is still testing you and taking a dominate roll on occasion.

I can't recall how old Ruby is? Is she experiencing her rebellious teen years? Regardless, I think it's great the time you spend with her. I found that doing obedience training with an obedience club was far more beneficial than I ever imagined. It's true. They teach you how to train the dog. However, I found it even more important for them to learn in a different environment with other dogs present. It's kind of like the dogs learn more from watching each other as humans learn how to handle the commands.

You mentioned your daughter having dwarfism and how she could get more involved. I am 4'10". Just very short. I do find that people don't always take me seriously or have a tendency to treat me as if I am younger than I am. Taking the obedience classes really helped me learn how to be a confident pack leader. Assertive and confident in what I do. It's amazing how these skills transfer to other areas of your life. I bet she would be a fantastic handler. Depending on her abilities, she may have to adapt a little to get past some challenges. She does that every day anyway.

There are clubs all across the US. When I get my new little puppy, I want her to become certified as a Canine Good Citizen. It's very challenging and not just the normal sit/stay class you might imagine it to be. You could take your daughter and visit before signing up if you want to see what it is all about.
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J
She is 6.5 months old, I thought it was rebellion also, but its something I need to nip in the bud RIGHT now, her life coul very well depend on it. The problem with puppy school, is I live in a small town in Ontario and while we do have a puppy training class, it is not well respected by anyone I have ever spoken to about it, it is also only held in teh fall and I need the help now. Most of the major cities do have a school or people that will come to your home but I'm not sure if it's because we are so small or whatever but nobody seems to come to town to do it. There is one lady in town who will come to my home, but I have heard horror stories about her from people and the vet, so thats not an option, I am not about to be taught to bully my dog, to make her understand. Ruby houstrained in just a few days after we found a UTI, so I know she is smart. I know she CAN do this and I know I CAN teach her to at least the basic commands that will keep her safe.....I don't get why in the house she is always following me, listens well but outside its so different lol. You'd think in the big wide open world she would be more timid lol.

I am going to keep taking her out several times a day with that really long lead and try to get soem control that way, she did well the first time and I know that as long as I am persistent she will only get better. However I don't think she will be one that can ever be off leash totally.
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Locket
I would look at this as starting from scratch with recall. Practice on leash first and make sure you have really yummy treats like chicken hotdogs, cheese or something she really loves. Stand about 2 ft inside the gate, and let Ruby walk out the gate. Call her as soon as she steps out of the gate. If she comes, treat her. If she doesn't, call her again and reel her in. Repeat about 15 times. Do this everyday, each day stand a foot further inside your yard, letting Ruby get near the gate, but calling her back. Treat when she does it on her own. When you can trust she will come while on the lead, try it off lead.

Hope it works.
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BFF
Well. It's too bad you don't have a good reputable club nearby. It sounds like you are on the right path and getting some wonderful suggestions. Ruby should be doing her recall in no time.
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atlas
Teach Ruby to sit every time a door is opened. Ask her to sit, give her a stay command, then open the door. If she stays for a few seconds, close the door, making sure she stays, and give her a treat. Gradually increase the time to a minute or two. Poodles are smart, she will catch on soon.

My puppy Lily wants to kill all squirrels, chipmunks, and bunnies, my chickens, etc. She is obsessed and stares outside then whines and wants outside badly upon viewing anything move. I don't want her bolting out the door and getting something, so I taught her this trick. She automatically sits now when I go near the door.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
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J
atlas said:
Teach Ruby to sit every time a door is opened. Ask her to sit, give her a stay command, then open the door. If she stays for a few seconds, close the door, making sure she stays, and give her a treat. Gradually increase the time to a minute or two. Poodles are smart, she will catch on soon.

My puppy Lily wants to kill all squirrels, chipmunks, and bunnies, my chickens, etc. She is obsessed and stares outside then whines and wants outside badly upon viewing anything move. I don't want her bolting out the door and getting something, so I taught her this trick. She automatically sits now when I go near the door.

Good luck, and keep us posted!
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After posting this and getting some excellent replies I starting feeling better. I have come to teh conclusion that she isn't purposely disobeying and being a brat but more that is getting more mature and like a typical human teenager she is testing to see what she can get away with and what I am willing to allow. For most things she can argue and test, but there are a few areas where there has to be no tolerance with her, 1) she cannot bite, growl or snap. She does;t do this stuff anyway, but it would never be tolerated. 2) she cannot bolt and run, her own safety relies on this. 3) she cannot be the boss, I have to be the boss and when I think she is starting to get better, I must still not trust her ...yet.

As I said earlier I took her out on a really long light rope several times today. It went well, she still has her freedom but when she starts to get anxious to get away I can go foshing for Ruby and reel her in. While reeling her in I say come and she has no choice but to come or she gets pulled to me. She is starting I think to see that. I have also started what someone suggested and that was making her sit at the door, until she has permission to move. When I say sit she usually doesm, but when she doesn't I plunk her bum down for her, hold up my index finger and say wait....She has improved greatly today in her wait, and sit. We played fetch with her tied to the end of the rope, the other around my wrist. We just don't throw as far as we did when we let her free. even in the fenced school yard this will happen, until she is 100% reliable, no matter what the situation is, she must come, no ifs and or butts, its not an option to run.

if I can continuly make sure that she sits each and everytime that door is opened, she will have no chance to bolt at all. For now until she will listent o Jilly this means i will have to get up multiple times a day to "man the door" myself, but its ok. If it keeps my girl safe its all good. I tried to let Jilly teach her a bit tonight and never noticed the dynamics until tonight. Ruby will not listen to Jilly at all, so I talked with Jilly and before she gets fed, goes outside etc etc she will be told to sit at the very least. Hopefully when Ruby is flawless on her commands she will listen to anyone (is that far fetched in my thinking that?).

So for now I feel more confident, less angry about it all and certainly less frusterated. Thank you for your help. I will of course be open to any additiohnal suggestions anyone has for me. I have 2 dogs but Roo is the first one who i have had issues with, How Quincy got so smart is beyond me, he just knows all this and I did very little to teach him.
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P
You know, I think when she is off leash she thinks she is always in the Playground (off leash) mode. She is confused therfore when you insistently try to fetch her as she is not done with her off leash run. My small standard red thinks like this so I know what you mean. Only his problem is car chasing which he reinforced prior to being with me; I had to buy a shock collar though it is not a cure for his mind, it does keep him alive with me. I do have a constant push from him to be dominant that I have to keep in check. Sounds like we may have comparable dog personalities??
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P
Oh, and I taught both my poodles to wait for my command prior to exiting a door. Indeed helps. Do it everytime or they will learn to ignore it. I used words, and the only action I use is the hand signal for stay. All of this worked perfectly well until my husband and daughter decided to teach them to run after squirrels 0-60mph through the door to chase them of the patio! Some retraining of all parties and we are as good as new again :)
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passion4poodles
I am sorry to hear you are having such problems with "little lightning butt" LOL!!! I would say Ya, pro trainer. Since she is placing herself in danger everytime she does it, it would be best. Lucky for me, Zoey and Tynk will go out the door, but Zoey follows Tynk and Tynk has a reliable recall, so she follows her back in the house LOL! Best of luck!
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P
I can completely sympathize with you... I had a lab mix that was a bolter/escape artist. I literally chased that dog through the neighborhood for 12 years... He was our first dog, and we made the mistake of calling him over and then correcting him... no wonder he never wanted to come.. he was always in trouble :eek:) We would go through the neighborhood chasing him and getting mad and calling him and then when he didn't come, calling him "bad dog" and then the cycle would continue... We have learned by our mistakes and with all our dogs since, I have been firm about never calling them over to correct them... and never calling them "bad dog"... what they did may be bad, but they were never bad.

At Roxy's puppy class they talked about training your dog for the "non-trainer's in your house. You repeatly go to the door, (with a leash on) and open the door and close it without going out or saying anything... give him a treat... once you can open the door with out him bolting... then teach him that if you say "ok" he gets to go outside for his treat. I worked with Roxy and in a matter of days, the front door can be opened and she will not go out until you say "ok"... you could do this with your gates too... Just a thought... they say that not everyone will tell your dog to "stay or wait" at the door, if they learn never to go out it without an "ok" then that takes care of the "non-trainers" in your home

Good luck... sounds like you might be making progress

p
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D
I got training dvds from http://www.dogfather.tv/ . He teaches tons of tricks including your problems.

Mine listened when they had nothing more interesting to do but get a dog walking nearby or a squirrel and it's like I didn't exist.

The dvds helped me to train them. I now go for walks without leashes now and they listen.
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