I’ve basically exhausted all possibilities for breeders. NOBODY who breeds dogs with good/excellent hips and does all health testing will sell me a dog if I cannot go there in person to pick it up. I’m ready to start a lawsuitp because this is really discrimination against a person with disabilities. I don’t care what their requirement s are, in this day and age with all the technology available for video conferencing and chatting, unless a breeder wants to smell me, there is no reason why having a family member pick up a dog, shouldn’t be a viable option. I am not a criminal. I have good references, I’ve owner dogs before. I am trying to do the right thing by NOT going to a puppy mill but this is exactly why people end up at those types of breeders!
I can NEVER have a Poodle!
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Interesting, because both of my dogs have good/excellent hips on all of their parents, the breeders do all health testing, and they have no problem selling sight unseen if you've talked on the phone and would have a family member pick up the dog (or have the dog shipped to you). I've already given you their contact info, but clearly you weren't interested in following those leads.
You can't sue poodle breeders. Everyone has the right to sell to whomever they want. It's not like going to Walmart and being denied service.
You can't sue poodle breeders. Everyone has the right to sell to whomever they want. It's not like going to Walmart and being denied service.
There is a way to start a lawsuit of this sort but that’s beside the point. I did contact that breeder and never heard back. It’s not a question if selling to who they want because they cannot establish a sound reason not to sell to me other than I cannot come in person, which is denial because of access and, because it is not one breeder but the majority, it is a different scenario.
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I wonder if you could cover their costs to do a home visit? Perhaps that would put their mind at ease.
Through our foster dog experience, I heard horror stories from rescue groups about folks misrepresenting themselves or their living situation in order to get a dog. I understand a breeder's concern, and I also can understand your frustration.
Hope you find a good fit soon.
Through our foster dog experience, I heard horror stories from rescue groups about folks misrepresenting themselves or their living situation in order to get a dog. I understand a breeder's concern, and I also can understand your frustration.
Hope you find a good fit soon.
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There are plenty of breeders that fit that criteria and would ship a puppy without meeting the owners as long as they had good phone conversations and felt comfortable with that person. Especially if a family member would be picking the puppy up. Maybe you again need to look at you and how you come off. But I think it’s a lost cause trying to talk to you about this.
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I’m sorry, but... not again ? Haven’t we talked about this ad nauseam in at least two other threads ?
You’re the only one in the world who’s having this problem. Maybe look at the way you approach people ? Either that or you’re a troll or in serious need of attention...
You’re the only one in the world who’s having this problem. Maybe look at the way you approach people ? Either that or you’re a troll or in serious need of attention...
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You can go online and buy a puppy. Try the AKC Marketplace. I haven’t fully looked through it myself, but reputable breeders are willing to ship. It sounds, from what I’ve read here, that you may go on the defensive the minute you start talking tin someone. If you tell a person they have to sell to you, the normal reaction is “No, I don’t!”
If you find a puppy to bring home or be shipped to you, I’m sure others will be willing to share in your joy.
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If you find a puppy to bring home or be shipped to you, I’m sure others will be willing to share in your joy.
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Mish, it sounds like it is time to move on from getting a poodle from a breeder. I have been on this board for more than a year, and I remember similar posts from when I first joined, so this has been going on for a while now. Unfortunately, no one here is able to help, and numerous people have tried in many ways.
It would be best to move on and start looking at rescues for a different dog.
It would be best to move on and start looking at rescues for a different dog.
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Mish, I too am disabled and I have 3 dogs: 1 poodle and 2 poodle mixes. If you’re thinking you can sue through an ADA lawyer I think you’re wrong. This isn’t a job you’re looking for, or a hotel room to rent, or being denied handicapped accessible parking somewhere. They can’t sue individuals because you can’t get somewhere and meet someone. Breeders can sell to whom ever they want, and therefore, who ever they don’t want to sell to. It would be like suing me because you can’t get up to my 2nd floor condo to look at something I am selling.
I agree you should move on and think about another dog. A rescue might be right for you either if you don’t have someone at home enough to help you take care of it. There’s nothing anyone here can do to help. Quit being so angry that you have to gripe about it on and on, and send your family to an animal shelter. You can get a fine dog there.
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In my mind, the only lawsuit you could do is file in a Small Claims Court if a breeder:
1) accepted your application,
2) you signed a contract agreeing to their stipulations, and
3) you fullfilled all the stipulations, and
4) they accepted your deposit,
but when an available pup of your stipulations (color/gender/temperament) was available, they reneged on the contract and refused to return your deposit.
Short of that any good breeder is obligated only to their litter, not to someone unseen who could be representing a puppy mill. A good breeder's first obligation is to the welfare of that puppy, not a random person who calls, give a sad story of why they can't come meet them in person and wants it shipped to them. There are places that do this, such as Next Day Pets.
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Mish17,
You are whistling in the wind on the lawsuit. Oh yes, you can sue anyone for anything however winning is a different matter. I should know. I have given sworn depositions & have testified in court cases on behalf of breeders, handlers, & professional dogs. To begin with if it is a breeder's policy that they do NOT sell to someone who does not pick the puppy up in person, then you are done. They did not break a contract with you & they are not discriminating against you due to your disability. They DO NOT sell to anyone who doesn't arrive in person. That is their policy & their right. They are not a public entity. You might be shocked to know there are a lot of people who will pay, say, & do anything to get what they want regardless of if it's good for the pup. Breeders have this policy because over the phone, online, even facetime with someone the person on the other end only shows what they want the breeder to see. Anyone can keep up the ruse for even an hour on the phone. In person, it's harder to lie, harder to con, harder to keep it up during a prolonged visit. (I am NOT saying you are lying or conning... I am stating the reason that breeders have such a policy). You will be very upset by what happens in court should you pursue that avenue. It's your word against theirs.
The next thing is kind of hard to hear but I hope I can say it kindly. Has it occurred to you that you are not presenting yourself in the best light to breeders? I spent ten years looking for a certain type of Doberman. I interviewed over 200 breeders, saw videos, personally saw dogs from many of those kennels. That was to find 1 dog. I was told by many that I was too picky. They're right I was. I went through something very similar in looking for my Standard Poodle who has the qualities to be a working guardian. I had several people hang up on me, laugh at me, tell me I was crazy. I didn't take offense but I did learn how to approach the subject where they would HEAR me before they hung up, laughed, or decided I was mental. I learned to ask about the dog's parents. "Do you find them to be good watch dogs?" Sometimes I'd have to explain that I meant just barking at strangers telling them to get lost. Then I'd tell them I'd worked with some Standards in my career who were excellent guardians. That would get them curious & they were still on the phone. It is 100% truth, so that helps. I've had breeders tell me, "Sorry but my guys love everyone & can't wait to meet strangers." My response, "that's wonderful. The world needs dogs like that." I've made some nice contacts to help people when they call me looking for a therapy prospect, alert dog, etc... But my point is, rather than take offense use it as a learning experience & really examine how YOU appear to the person on the other end of the phone. The breeder may worry if you can't come get the puppy, what does that mean for the puppy? Will you be able to care for him or her? How will he get to the vet? How will s/he get exercise? These are VALID concerns. You may be slamming the door in your own face because of how you come off to the person on the other end of the phone.
Also, if you call a breeder & they don't return your call, that could mean something it could mean nothing. Again, it could mean you're not presenting yourself in the best light. It could mean phone trouble. It could mean they had a bad day & lost your number or couldn't understand your message (reception can sometimes be a butt when you're writing down phone messages off voice mail). I live in a place that phone communication is difficult. I have to drive 12 miles to get a cell signal. I am hard to reach & that's not by choice. Fortunately for me, when I found a pup I was interested in... I called... when I didn't hear back I emailed (both were VERY respectful & polite). I finally got an email from the lady asking me to call back on a different number (her cell phone was in an accident & she lost everything on that phone). Sometimes very legitimate things happen that's beyond the breeder's control. Be understanding if you want others to return that in kind.
There are people who will sell you a pup, sight unseen, just give 'em a credit card & have someone pick up the pup at the airport. The reason you are having trouble finding the breeder with this type of view of selling puppies who does hip evaluations.
You are whistling in the wind on the lawsuit. Oh yes, you can sue anyone for anything however winning is a different matter. I should know. I have given sworn depositions & have testified in court cases on behalf of breeders, handlers, & professional dogs. To begin with if it is a breeder's policy that they do NOT sell to someone who does not pick the puppy up in person, then you are done. They did not break a contract with you & they are not discriminating against you due to your disability. They DO NOT sell to anyone who doesn't arrive in person. That is their policy & their right. They are not a public entity. You might be shocked to know there are a lot of people who will pay, say, & do anything to get what they want regardless of if it's good for the pup. Breeders have this policy because over the phone, online, even facetime with someone the person on the other end only shows what they want the breeder to see. Anyone can keep up the ruse for even an hour on the phone. In person, it's harder to lie, harder to con, harder to keep it up during a prolonged visit. (I am NOT saying you are lying or conning... I am stating the reason that breeders have such a policy). You will be very upset by what happens in court should you pursue that avenue. It's your word against theirs.
The next thing is kind of hard to hear but I hope I can say it kindly. Has it occurred to you that you are not presenting yourself in the best light to breeders? I spent ten years looking for a certain type of Doberman. I interviewed over 200 breeders, saw videos, personally saw dogs from many of those kennels. That was to find 1 dog. I was told by many that I was too picky. They're right I was. I went through something very similar in looking for my Standard Poodle who has the qualities to be a working guardian. I had several people hang up on me, laugh at me, tell me I was crazy. I didn't take offense but I did learn how to approach the subject where they would HEAR me before they hung up, laughed, or decided I was mental. I learned to ask about the dog's parents. "Do you find them to be good watch dogs?" Sometimes I'd have to explain that I meant just barking at strangers telling them to get lost. Then I'd tell them I'd worked with some Standards in my career who were excellent guardians. That would get them curious & they were still on the phone. It is 100% truth, so that helps. I've had breeders tell me, "Sorry but my guys love everyone & can't wait to meet strangers." My response, "that's wonderful. The world needs dogs like that." I've made some nice contacts to help people when they call me looking for a therapy prospect, alert dog, etc... But my point is, rather than take offense use it as a learning experience & really examine how YOU appear to the person on the other end of the phone. The breeder may worry if you can't come get the puppy, what does that mean for the puppy? Will you be able to care for him or her? How will he get to the vet? How will s/he get exercise? These are VALID concerns. You may be slamming the door in your own face because of how you come off to the person on the other end of the phone.
Also, if you call a breeder & they don't return your call, that could mean something it could mean nothing. Again, it could mean you're not presenting yourself in the best light. It could mean phone trouble. It could mean they had a bad day & lost your number or couldn't understand your message (reception can sometimes be a butt when you're writing down phone messages off voice mail). I live in a place that phone communication is difficult. I have to drive 12 miles to get a cell signal. I am hard to reach & that's not by choice. Fortunately for me, when I found a pup I was interested in... I called... when I didn't hear back I emailed (both were VERY respectful & polite). I finally got an email from the lady asking me to call back on a different number (her cell phone was in an accident & she lost everything on that phone). Sometimes very legitimate things happen that's beyond the breeder's control. Be understanding if you want others to return that in kind.
There are people who will sell you a pup, sight unseen, just give 'em a credit card & have someone pick up the pup at the airport. The reason you are having trouble finding the breeder with this type of view of selling puppies who does hip evaluations.
There is such a negative attitude here that I would not sell anything to the person displaying this attitude. So sorry.
I even know artful basket makers that will only sell to people they feel have immense compassion that they would feel honored to have them own their baskets! At first I thought they were nuts, but after observing how much they loved their baskets, and how clients interacted with them, I understood.
Also, I would never buy a pup without going there in person to the breeder, getting to know the breeder, the puppy's parents, and the pups, and IF deciding on a pup, transporting it in person to my home. Nor would I want to purchase from a breeder that indiscriminately ships their pups out.
We all have different beliefs, that I can understand, but we cannot just sue people for not holding our same beliefs.
I even know artful basket makers that will only sell to people they feel have immense compassion that they would feel honored to have them own their baskets! At first I thought they were nuts, but after observing how much they loved their baskets, and how clients interacted with them, I understood.
Also, I would never buy a pup without going there in person to the breeder, getting to know the breeder, the puppy's parents, and the pups, and IF deciding on a pup, transporting it in person to my home. Nor would I want to purchase from a breeder that indiscriminately ships their pups out.
We all have different beliefs, that I can understand, but we cannot just sue people for not holding our same beliefs.
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So I am not a breeder, but I did once breed my chi and why I didn’t sell the puppies to many different people.
I had a rare (expensive) color male and female. The first day my ad ran in the paper, I must have had 50 calls on the male. People were upfront and told me they were breeding. I would tell them my puppy would not be growing up in a crate/kennel. Also they were pet only and not to be used for breeding. Many people fought with me that day. “What difference does it make to you? You’ll get YOUR money so what do you care?” (Funny thing is, while he was worth about $1500 at that time in 2006, I w as selling him for the average chi price of $400. I wanted to make sure both pups got a home with people who’d been looking for their color and couldn’t afford the high price).
Others said “You have to sell to me. You can’t discriminate!” (Does that maybe sound a bit familiar?” And I’d very kindly tell them that they we MY puppies and I didn’t have to sell them at all. And certainly not to them. Some didn’t admit they were breeders, but I knew to ask almost trick questions which told me they were. So an entire day wasted.
There are many reasons breeders won’t sell to certain people, and it’s not that you’re being singled out. I had in my mind, that I wanted to be engaged ina long conversation and see if they lost interest in the puppies. I wanted to see the interactions on both sides. My girl picked her new owner all by herself. It was obvious to me too. I am still in touch with the woman who took her 13 years later. The other person fell in love at first sight with the male, he reacted extremely well towards her, and when she picked him up other chest he peed on her. “Oooh, I’ve been christened!” We had a good laugh over that.
I hope this shows you what kinds of things breeders, or one time people, look for their puppies. I loved them so much I bawled my eyes out as they left my home. I have to say, from what I’ve seen you say here, and the attitude displayed, and that you couldn’t, or wouldn’t, come meet the pup in person, I would never have sold to you.
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I had a rare (expensive) color male and female. The first day my ad ran in the paper, I must have had 50 calls on the male. People were upfront and told me they were breeding. I would tell them my puppy would not be growing up in a crate/kennel. Also they were pet only and not to be used for breeding. Many people fought with me that day. “What difference does it make to you? You’ll get YOUR money so what do you care?” (Funny thing is, while he was worth about $1500 at that time in 2006, I w as selling him for the average chi price of $400. I wanted to make sure both pups got a home with people who’d been looking for their color and couldn’t afford the high price).
Others said “You have to sell to me. You can’t discriminate!” (Does that maybe sound a bit familiar?” And I’d very kindly tell them that they we MY puppies and I didn’t have to sell them at all. And certainly not to them. Some didn’t admit they were breeders, but I knew to ask almost trick questions which told me they were. So an entire day wasted.
There are many reasons breeders won’t sell to certain people, and it’s not that you’re being singled out. I had in my mind, that I wanted to be engaged ina long conversation and see if they lost interest in the puppies. I wanted to see the interactions on both sides. My girl picked her new owner all by herself. It was obvious to me too. I am still in touch with the woman who took her 13 years later. The other person fell in love at first sight with the male, he reacted extremely well towards her, and when she picked him up other chest he peed on her. “Oooh, I’ve been christened!” We had a good laugh over that.
I hope this shows you what kinds of things breeders, or one time people, look for their puppies. I loved them so much I bawled my eyes out as they left my home. I have to say, from what I’ve seen you say here, and the attitude displayed, and that you couldn’t, or wouldn’t, come meet the pup in person, I would never have sold to you.
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I have read your entire thread, it is unfortunate you have a disability, but if that is the case I understand how a breeder that is a responsible breeder would want to be sure their puppy was going to a good home to a responsible person capable of care to the dog. Too many end up abandoned, abused or rehomed which is hard on an animal as I'm sure you have read about. Besides if you already have 2 dogs would it be reasonable with a disability to take on the task of raising another dog.
And if you can't get to the breeders home, how would you get to a vet if needed? I stand with the breeder in this case.
Sorry, NK
And if you can't get to the breeders home, how would you get to a vet if needed? I stand with the breeder in this case.
Sorry, NK
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I can't believe you PF'ers! This drama has come up from time to time, a repeating refrain with threads that have many pages, time spent that could be spent really helping someone. There are very few, if any posts by this person in any other thread. She comes on here and I suspect other forums, looking for attention and sympathy for not being able to get a (insert breed)______________. This inability to get a dog is highly improbable and unbelievable.
IF it is true that you can not find a poodle or on other forums probably...some other breed, which I doubt, there is NO...I repeat NO solution. Don't you all see? Mish, if it's true and I'm wrong...sorry. But your drama is fruitless.:violin: No one has any suggestion or solution that has not been offered many multiple times already. So why don't you look somewhere else for a solution and stop stirring things up to get attention and sympathy on PF. That won't do anyone, including yourself a bit of good. I'm sorry if you're having such a bad time that you have to keep doing this. But you might consider some professional kind of guidance. Keep doing the same thing but expecting different results is not very logical actually.
Hasn't this subject been beaten to death over the years? :deadhorse: Isn't it time to stop feeding the alleged troll?
IF it is true that you can not find a poodle or on other forums probably...some other breed, which I doubt, there is NO...I repeat NO solution. Don't you all see? Mish, if it's true and I'm wrong...sorry. But your drama is fruitless.:violin: No one has any suggestion or solution that has not been offered many multiple times already. So why don't you look somewhere else for a solution and stop stirring things up to get attention and sympathy on PF. That won't do anyone, including yourself a bit of good. I'm sorry if you're having such a bad time that you have to keep doing this. But you might consider some professional kind of guidance. Keep doing the same thing but expecting different results is not very logical actually.
Hasn't this subject been beaten to death over the years? :deadhorse: Isn't it time to stop feeding the alleged troll?
Dogsavvy and Kontiki make excellent points. I have been looking for a standard for a month in a less common color. I signed a contract last week with a breeder who will ship or send with a flight nanny or a driver. I chose to pick up because I do want to meet the mom and the breeder. I met other breeders on Facebook who will deliver (8 hours away) or ship as well (Texas to East Coast). All health tested. In addition, there are at least 2 breeders 30 minutes to 1 hour away. I could get on a waitlist for a puppy from them. There are not a lot of other breeders in my area. If you cannot travel at least that far then how will you get the puppy to the vet, groomer, training class or on walks?
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