Poodle Forum banner

1 - 12 of 12 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So I train Leeroy, my 14mo male spoo, for a couple minutes at a time every day. He gets way too hyper and food motivated during that time though. And the longer I go with training sessions, the worse it gets. If I try to do commands without treats (so he doesn't always expect treats) he goes nuts after my hand and starts to not listen. When I have him lay down he does a pounce (I'll admit it's kind of cute) and claws up my arm and expects a treat. He'll also start jumping up and nipping any time I try to move to a new location for a new command.

I've been doing sit, stay, lay down and leave it.

He's normally good with leave it, I've been using a crumpled paper ball to practice with, but today he would nudge it and expect a treat.

Also he hardly listens out on his walks lately. It's kind of driving me nuts. I really don't want him getting into poo.

I know he's a teenager but it's going to become problematic if he starts to refuse to listen or makes it so difficult to train him.

I'd love some advice.. thank you!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22,964 Posts
IMPULSE CONTROL is the answer to almost everything you commented on in your post. There is a game called It's Yer Choice, originally from Susan Garrett but now adapted by many people. You can find lots of descriptions of it online, but I will explain my version of it here.


Put several treats in each hand and let Leeroy know you have them. For a large dog sit on a chair for a small dog sit on the floor. Keep your hands closed around the treats and hands resting on your thighs. The dog will mug you by pawing at and mouthing your hands to try to get the treats. Don't say or do anything. Once the dog is frustrated by the lack of results (no treats coming) he will sit back and look at you even just for second. Timing is critical since just as that happens you will offer one treat as you say "yes!" Go back to your closed hands on your thighs sitting quietly. You will be mugged but for a shorter amount of time. When the dog sits back and makes eye contact "yes" and give a treat. With the brainiacs that poodles are it won't take long for them to figure out that mugging you doesn't get anything but that sitting does. Now you make the criterion that the dog has to give you 3 then 5 then 10 seconds of polite eye contact to get the treat. With all of our dogs I don't need the treats to be in my hand anymore. I just put the treats on my knees. I also can have them do sit down sit and such before telling them to take a treat.


Here is a link to a YouTube video I made last winter when I wanted to up the level and refresh Javelin's impulse control. He isn't perfect, but he is pretty darn good and my criteria were very high. Those are pieces of string cheese sitting on my knees and there was a dog behind a baby gate to my left and a dog going in and out of a crate to my right.




Oh and as a PS short attention span theatre is what you should be thinking. Five or six times a day for 2-3 minutes will result in more reinforcement and longer lasting behavior changes than 15 minute twice a day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spicandspan

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thank you! Ironically I found the exact same training info through Zak George on YouTube.. he set up a 30 day free training today and the first lesson was exactly this. It is working so so well in just about 5 minutes this morning.

My hand was so, so slobbery when I was done lol. 1

I'm going to be doing this a few more times today too. I am so proud of him.

In more news... He actually played fetch in the yard! That's a huge improvement since he was so scared of it when we adopted him about 2 weeks ago. I'd throw the ball, he ran to get it, I got excited and told him to come here... He ran back and I'd get my fingers on the ball while it was in his mouth to get him to play a little, then I'd stop and when he'd lose interest and let go I'd say YES and then throw it again. We had fun with that for about 10 minutes. :) toward the end he was actually bringing the ball and dropping it at my feet!

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22,964 Posts
Fetch is a wonderful interactive game that builds bonds. So hooray for Leeroy fetching.


I have a lot of short very plain videos on YouTube. Most of them are pretty much about competitive obedience training but some of them a good for pets too. I am clearly not a famous YouTube producer and my production values are pretty bare bones, but they get to the point (and since so far I haven't worked on making them slick enough to monetize you don't have to watch any ads on my channel at this point).


I am very glad you are seeing progress, but remember this can be a two steps forward one step back kind of process. Don't be disappointed or think you have failed if you hit plateaus or find times that things backslide a little. You are doing a wonderful job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: meljen

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,358 Posts
As Catherine says, be prepared for good days/bad days, but it does sound as if Leeroy is highly trainable and enjoying the training games. I would certainly keep sessions very short, fun, and very rewarding - you are in the process of teaching him to enjoy learning as much as trying to change his behaviour at this stage. I have also found that a really stimulating day can leave my dogs needing a less demanding few days of calm routine and relaxation - very much like small children, in fact!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Thank you both! Yes today was tiring because it was rainy yesterday so we didn't get out much... He was a fireball today! I am so glad we found the base training he needed and discovered that he does indeed play fetch and tug of war. When we did some more training sessions with the impulse control, it even helped him with kitty treats and dinner time. He was much less interested and just watched. He didn't even need his Kong at dinner!

I am totally ready for good and bad days as we dealt with that with his submissive pee already (although he's gone 2 days without any at all, I'm so proud of him)... but also because I homeschool 24/7 since both of my kids were babies... They're now 13 and 15. So I'm all about teaching and loving and being patient. Not that it's never hard, lol! But it's definitely worth it.

It's why I come here on the tricky days..it's so nice to have others to come to for advice and support for Leeroy.

I really enjoy it here and appreciate all of the wonderful help. :)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22,964 Posts
I told you that impulse control would really be a game that would help with nearly all of your "wild child" type issues! That game to me is almost a miracle. fjm that is a great point about the primacy of teaching the dog to enjoy learning at this point.
 
  • Like
Reactions: meljen

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
I told you that impulse control would really be a game that would help with nearly all of your "wild child" type issues! That game to me is almost a miracle. fjm that is a great point about the primacy of teaching the dog to enjoy learning at this point.
Yes it absolutely is a miracle! I look forward to reinforcing it today as it's raining again. I'm sure he'll love that.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Okay an update. I've been doing short bursts of impulse training every day. I've been trying to advance to sit and lay down again and for some reason that gets him wild. I'm not sure why. He starts throwing himself at the floor and then does a hyper sit and then jumps up wildly at me to the point that he bruised my wrist trying to whack my hand hard enough to get the treat. He also gets wild when I let him know we're done. I turn around and ignore him and say uh-uh until he calms down.

The problem is I do take him for a walk just before doing his training.

I know he's a teenager. He does sit well without distractions. I think I'd started training him wrong when we first adopted him, so when I bring the sit and lay down back into the equation the bad habits he'd formed come back...?

Anyway I'm going to focus strictly on the impulse training again. I'll also make him wait longer before giving him a treat. I'm also trying to be very firm and pull my hands away and say no or uh-uh and then wait for him to calm down before continuing. I'll admit, when he gets that wild it can be really frustrating. Again I know he's a teenager and it's been 3 weeks since we adopted him and he's never gotten this many treats or this much attention. So I'm trying REALLY hard to be patient.

But in other news he's learning more and more to apply leave it... When we're on walks or I'm giving the cats treats he isn't as pushy about not wanting to listen.

Lol... Just giving an update. Wish me luck. :)

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
22,964 Posts
This is a journey that can have bursts of great progress followed by back sliding moments. I know that back sliding is frustrating but you have to be consistent and patient. To really do the it's yer choice impulse control game you have to be willing to get molested. You should really say and do nothing. The idea is to give the dog the chance to teach himself that calm behavior gets goodies. It has moments where you want to screech and ouch, but you have to resist that urge. Unless dealing with a dog that really does not understand bite inhibition it is actually more likely that you will get seriously hurt by pulling your hand away while the dog's mouth is on your hand or if the dog jumps to try to follow your hand and knocks you off the chair.


I am glad you checked in to tell us about your progress. You are doing just fine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: meljen

·
Registered
Joined
·
588 Posts
Be careful about pulling the treat away from him, that is teasing him and he could very well grab at your hand and bite harder than he intends to. A better way is to leave your hand still and close your fingers over the treat so he can't get it.
 
1 - 12 of 12 Posts
Top