Hello! :bashful: My white mini/toy poodle's name is Coco, and we are located in Los Angeles County, California. We are pleased to meet you all! I have been looking to breed Coco for awhile now because I would like to carry on her legacy as I feel extremely attached to her, and would always want a part of her with me forever. However, I did not realize how incredibly difficult it is to find any purebred white toy poodle studs in Southern California and to get help from any breeders in SoCal. I was hoping that by coming here, I could get some help and advice as well as hearing about potential opportunities for help. I am starting to feel anxious as this process is taking me quite awhile and I keep on feeling like I am running into dead ends, and hardly finding what I am looking for via Google searches.
Hi! I am seeking help and support/advice as a dog mom looking to breed one litter
- Status
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Also forgot to add!...
Oh! Also, I know I had said purebred stud, but I am also open to studs with any bit of bichon frise in them as well
I will make an exception for Bichons Also here is an image of Coco so you can all officially meet her ^_^
Oh! Also, I know I had said purebred stud, but I am also open to studs with any bit of bichon frise in them as well
I will make an exception for Bichons Also here is an image of Coco so you can all officially meet her ^_^Attachments
Joined
·
1,755 Posts
Have you had your dog tested for genetic diseases yet? Here is the list of tests for toy poodles:
- DNA test for prcd-Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) - done by an OFA-approved laboratory
- Yearly eye exam by a board-certified ACVO veterinary ophthalmologist
- An OFA-certified exam for patellar luxation
And for miniature poodles an OFA-certified (or Penn-Hip certified) exam for hip dysplasia is added to the above exams.
Please do not consider breeding dogs of different breeds together. That just compounds the list of genetic issues. Responsible breeders go to great lengths to try to eliminate genetic problems by carefully evaluating each dog's background.
Furthermore, breeding is not always rewarded with a healthy litter of puppies. There is a lot that can go wrong, and problems can lead to huge vet bills or even the death of the mother dog.
- DNA test for prcd-Progressive Retinal Atrophy (PRA) - done by an OFA-approved laboratory
- Yearly eye exam by a board-certified ACVO veterinary ophthalmologist
- An OFA-certified exam for patellar luxation
And for miniature poodles an OFA-certified (or Penn-Hip certified) exam for hip dysplasia is added to the above exams.
Please do not consider breeding dogs of different breeds together. That just compounds the list of genetic issues. Responsible breeders go to great lengths to try to eliminate genetic problems by carefully evaluating each dog's background.
Furthermore, breeding is not always rewarded with a healthy litter of puppies. There is a lot that can go wrong, and problems can lead to huge vet bills or even the death of the mother dog.
Joined
·
7,268 Posts
This is not the right place to ask about breeding, first of all, and certainly not mixing breeds with poodles.
Most of us are against breeding for any other reason than bettering the breed, and mostly, when it’s done by people who «*want to breed their pet because they love them so much*», without any experience and without the proper genetic pool on the dog part and help from an experienced mentor.
Don’t be surprised if you don’t get much support on your project. You should take the time to read what the forum is about.
Most of us are against breeding for any other reason than bettering the breed, and mostly, when it’s done by people who «*want to breed their pet because they love them so much*», without any experience and without the proper genetic pool on the dog part and help from an experienced mentor.
Don’t be surprised if you don’t get much support on your project. You should take the time to read what the forum is about.
Joined
·
7,189 Posts
Coco is absolutely adorable, and—having lost my dear girl in July—I totally understand the desire to carry a piece of our heart dogs with us forever.
But....
What about just going back to her breeder and asking about future litters?
But....
What about just going back to her breeder and asking about future litters?
Hi and welcome. First of all, I am sorry to say, but this is not a good reason to breed your dog. By breeding your dog without having the proper experience, you put the life of not only your dog but also the lives of any potential puppies at risk. Also, ethically you need to complete all of the health testing that has already been mentioned.
Also, since you brought up the possibly of breeding your dog with another breed, mixed breed dogs can have a lot of behavioral and health issues. I currently have a poodle mix that came from a bad breeding situation. He is 8 years old, and he has had numerous health and behavioral issues. I have been dealing with considerable heartache lately due to his ongoing health issues. Also, my parents had a poorly bred mixed breed that died of cancer almost a year ago at only 9 years old (she came from a neighbor). If you breed your dog and the puppies are not healthy due to the health issues of your dog and the stud, you are responsible for those health issues. So, there is a lot to think about.
If you truly are wanting another dog that shares genetic traits with your current dog, please do what PeggyTheParti suggested, and go back to that breeder where you got her. I am hoping you got your pup from a good breeder?
Sorry to be so blunt, but it's really hard to watch animals suffer when they have come from bad breeding situations.
Joined
·
23,796 Posts
Welcome to PF. I understand how you feel about Coco, but those feelings are not reasons to breed. My Lily is and always will be my total heart dog, but she was spayed a long time ago.
In addition to your particular query being somewhat unwise it is also against forum rules to post asking for breeding related services. See rule 9. https://www.poodleforum.com/2-member-introductions/announcements.html
In addition to your particular query being somewhat unwise it is also against forum rules to post asking for breeding related services. See rule 9. https://www.poodleforum.com/2-member-introductions/announcements.html
Joined
·
442 Posts
Pure bred dogs tend to have similar personalities. I think you may be able to find a dog with a personality like coco's by contacting poodle rescue. Otherwise, as suggested above, go back to Coco's breeder.
Joined
·
3,365 Posts
Hi and Welcome to you and adorable little Coco! The little Ty toy is almost as cute as she is .
As you've gathered by now, there are only a very few members of PF who are registered breeders or have any experience breeding. The rest of us are here for the love of poodles. If this is something you feel you must do, your best bet is to contact the breeder that Coco came from as suggested. Either they may have pups that come from the same lines. or, they may be willing to mentor you. Breeding is something you will need a lot more help with than you might think. Beyond the health testing, to ensure you don't bring pups into the world who are less likely to live a full, healthy life, you need to know the dangers to the mother and the pups and how to manage all of them, thru the pregnancy, birth, and til the pups leave for their new families.
Are you willing to risk Coco's life for this?
. As you've gathered by now, there are only a very few members of PF who are registered breeders or have any experience breeding. The rest of us are here for the love of poodles. If this is something you feel you must do, your best bet is to contact the breeder that Coco came from as suggested. Either they may have pups that come from the same lines. or, they may be willing to mentor you. Breeding is something you will need a lot more help with than you might think. Beyond the health testing, to ensure you don't bring pups into the world who are less likely to live a full, healthy life, you need to know the dangers to the mother and the pups and how to manage all of them, thru the pregnancy, birth, and til the pups leave for their new families.
Are you willing to risk Coco's life for this?
Joined
·
1,271 Posts
Coco is absolutely precious, but soliciting for a stud is against the forum rules, as has already been pointed out. Being in LA, you should be aware of the extreme overpopulation problem. One can get a toy or mini poodle or Bichon in the shelters, they are so overflowing with unwanted dogs. Please do not contribute to that situation. Just enjoy your girl for the unique, adorable dog she is.
Thank you all for your input. I spent the last half hour crying because it is a big dilemma for me. The biggest concern for me is her age. She is turning 7 years old this December. I had her DNA tested through Embark and thankfully she was clear of all 171 possible conditions including common ones such as PRA. She is not a carrier of any conditions either, thankfully. Also, to explain why I said I would probably make a exception for bichons as a stud, is because her DNA results had come back as her parents and grandparents and great parents all being pure mini-poodles, but that one of her great grandparents was a bichon. So she is about 90% mini poodle and 10% bichon. I spoke with a breeder today via e-mail and she voiced that there may be a higher chance of complications due to her age, but that if I spay her she may possibly die in surgery, and that if I don't spay her there may be a chance of her dying from pyometra. So every option has a risk and I feel so overwhelmed. I have always wanted her to have a litter but due to our prior living circumstances and other life circumstances, it was not feasible. But now that the circumstances are much more feasible and doable now, I am now scared it is too late. But at the same time, I hear stories of dogs her age having successful litters, and the thought of getting her spayed which I was told may also be risky at her age and hence possibly giving up a healthy successful litter that she may have had is also heartbreaking for me. It's almost like getting my tubes tied and thinking about my possible human baby that could have been here with me or getting an abortion and thinking about my baby that could have been. Every single option has a heartbreaking possible result in the back of my head! Spaying can be hard on her or put her at risk, pregnancy can be hard on her and also put her at risk, and not spaying her can also put her at risk for stuff like pyometra which is frightening. I just ask that nobody sends me hate mail right now (since it was mentioned that there may be little support for breeding here in this forum) and just try to help me out here as a dog mom who is emotionally torn between all of these thoughts and don't know what to do. If there are any people here that are very knowledgeable or experienced in the breeding arena and know about all of these details and answers to these questions based on experience I would appreciate that as well. Thank you all, I just need some knowledgeable insight and guidance and some emotional support. The tears are still coming down my face again right now. This is a very big dilemma for me
Joined
·
1,271 Posts
Seven years old is not too old or risky to spay her. Breeding her could kill her.
Joined
·
3,365 Posts
"I spoke with a breeder today via e-mail and she voiced that there may be a higher chance of complications due to her age, but that if I spay her she may possibly die in surgery, and that if I don't spay her there may be a chance of her dying from pyometra. So every option has a risk and I feel so overwhelmed."
If you trust your vet, what do they say about the risks for each option? One caution, it's not unusual for vets to have minimal experience with breeding and birth, but they should still have access to the information.
I hope you get the information you're looking for and wish you and Coco many happy years together, whatever you decide.
If you trust your vet, what do they say about the risks for each option? One caution, it's not unusual for vets to have minimal experience with breeding and birth, but they should still have access to the information.
I hope you get the information you're looking for and wish you and Coco many happy years together, whatever you decide.
Joined
·
783 Posts
Hello, and welcome to Poodle Forum! We’re glad you’re here. Please stick around and enjoy poodles with us.
You sound like a gentle, sensitive person with a lot of love for your girl. These are wonderful qualities! It does make me think of my own basic reason for never breeding, though. I can’t personally handle sick, dying or stillborn puppies- and breeders need to have the emotional skills to handle this part of life. It doesn’t always happen, but it does happen. It’s much more pleasant to think of healthy puppies and successful births, but problems are not uncommon.
Spaying has a lower risk.
Hug your girl. Treat yourself to a visit with a litter of puppies. I did that this weekend and it was GREAT! Many smiles.
You sound like a gentle, sensitive person with a lot of love for your girl. These are wonderful qualities! It does make me think of my own basic reason for never breeding, though. I can’t personally handle sick, dying or stillborn puppies- and breeders need to have the emotional skills to handle this part of life. It doesn’t always happen, but it does happen. It’s much more pleasant to think of healthy puppies and successful births, but problems are not uncommon.
Spaying has a lower risk.
Hug your girl. Treat yourself to a visit with a litter of puppies. I did that this weekend and it was GREAT! Many smiles.
Joined
·
3,863 Posts
I understand how you feel. Now knowing that coco is 7, she is really too old to put her thru a pregnancy. If you ever saw a dog have puppies you would agree. I once had a shih tzu, that I initially wanted to breed and her breeder was willing to help me. However she stayed very small and we could not find an appraise stud with a lineage that could guarantee her pups would be small and we probably would have been looking to a "c" section. So I put her health first and did not breed her. At 7 years old I had her spayed. She was the sweetest, most calm and loving dog I ever owned and she lived to be 17. I wold enjoy the dog you have as its obvious you love her. I actually did go back to the breeder and purchased a 2nd shih tzu when Holly was 7 as I felt she was getting up in years. Even though the pup was from the same breeder she wasn't of the same personality as my first. Puppies are fun but more fun if you just have one that you can cuddle and love and not have to find homes for. I in my young years did work with a reputable breeder and I bred a few litters with her. It was not fun at all watching her have puppies and she also had breech delivery of a pup and that too was not fun. Delivering puppies is not always simple and anyone that tells you it is probably didn't care if they lost a few pups, it is a lot of work and it is devastating when you lose a pup at birth. Good luck in your decision. This is a great forum with lots of informative people.
Joined
·
12,883 Posts
Helplessly watching puppies die despite every possible care and intervention is devastating, and I speak from experience. Seven is very late for a first litter, and even if everything else were perfect - superb conformation, perfect health test results, experienced mentor, ideal stud, etc - I don't think I would risk it. But it is by no means too old or too risky to spay if Coco is fit and healthy - Poppy has a slight heart murmur, and was spayed last year at the age of 9. She had a mammary tumour, and I decided to have her spayed at the same time as it was removed to save the possible later risk of an emergency op for pyometra. And pyometra is an emergency, but usually treatable if caught in time. I would talk to your vet about the pros and cons of spaying her now, and perhaps consider getting a pup to keep her company.
Joined
·
23,796 Posts
Expressing concerns about risks of breeding and writing hate email are two different things. I certainly hope no one berates you either publicly or privately over this. I can see why you feel stressed and conflicted.
I heartily endorse having your own conversation with your own vet. Don't spend tons of time online trying to parse this. If I were in your situation I would probably find that more stressful than actually following any of those options. If you have a good relationship with your vet go with their recommendation. You have done enough research to be able to ask good questions and feel comfortable with your decision even if you are not super happy with it. I personally would probably spay. No matter what aside from breeding (which I would not be happy to see) I wish you smooth sailing no matter what you do.
I heartily endorse having your own conversation with your own vet. Don't spend tons of time online trying to parse this. If I were in your situation I would probably find that more stressful than actually following any of those options. If you have a good relationship with your vet go with their recommendation. You have done enough research to be able to ask good questions and feel comfortable with your decision even if you are not super happy with it. I personally would probably spay. No matter what aside from breeding (which I would not be happy to see) I wish you smooth sailing no matter what you do.
Hi,
You need to talk to your vet about the surgery, not the breeder. The breeder does not know what your vet will. My current rescue dog was spayed months away from turning 6 years old, and she is fine. There are many other rescues spayed at older ages and are fine as well. Your vet can run tests to see if your dog is healthy enough to possibly handle surgery. I just found out about a week ago that my older dog has to see a cardiologist before being put under for further dental work because they believe he has a heart murmur. Knowing this information might save his life. A good vet will know what to do after running tests.
I understand loving your dog so much and feeling sad that something might take her from your life too early. We all want our dogs to live the longest life possible. Talking with your vet is a good start. Also, just enjoying your dog every moment that you have her.
Joined
·
9,894 Posts
Welcome to you and Coco! I’m sorry that breeding isn’t the best option. Keep in mind that healthy Toys go long. You have a lot of years ahead with her. There are no guarantees that her offspring are going to get her special personality. I can guarantee that there are plenty of wonderful Tpoos from experienced breeders, one of which will be close to perfect and will double the fun with none of the effort
Joined
·
1,446 Posts
Mfl- I completely appreciate the emotional mental spiral you are in. You want what is best for Coco, what is best for you, and you really don't have enough information. You made a start by posting here about what is involved in breeding, now it's time to remove more questions. The only way I have ever found to get past emotion when making this sort of decision is to gather all the information I can.
I would also echo the suggestion to go see your vet. Ask about spaying. Ask about breeding her. I would gently suggest that if the answer is that it is not possible to spay her, it is likely inadvisable to breed her, as complications do happen, and sometimes emergency spays are necessary.
Dogs should be bred not just because they have excellent temperament, but also because of their excellent physical structure. Ask your vet what flaws your dog might have. Is her bite good, her back and her legs good, her heart good, etc?
Also, from a financial perspective, I would also ask the vet about the costs of a litter. How much for emergency services if something goes wrong, for shots and deworming and whatever else is required (I honestly don't know the details, but was pretty shocked when my dog's breeder told me how much the litter had cost her in vet bills). Also check the list Johanna posted--many of those things are not cleared genetically, and you would want to see similar testing from the stud.
Do you have time for a litter? I know newborn puppies require an awful lot of care, and raising and socializing puppies is a big job when done right. Maybe take a look at Puppy Culture. Do you have 2-3 months to devote to puppy care?
From an emotional perspective... I can never see myself breeding a dog. It's WAY too much risk and heartbreak if things go poorly for mom and pups (even years down the line). But you need to make that decision for yourself. Breeding sure isn't for the faint of heart.
All the best for you and Coco
I would also echo the suggestion to go see your vet. Ask about spaying. Ask about breeding her. I would gently suggest that if the answer is that it is not possible to spay her, it is likely inadvisable to breed her, as complications do happen, and sometimes emergency spays are necessary.
Dogs should be bred not just because they have excellent temperament, but also because of their excellent physical structure. Ask your vet what flaws your dog might have. Is her bite good, her back and her legs good, her heart good, etc?
Also, from a financial perspective, I would also ask the vet about the costs of a litter. How much for emergency services if something goes wrong, for shots and deworming and whatever else is required (I honestly don't know the details, but was pretty shocked when my dog's breeder told me how much the litter had cost her in vet bills). Also check the list Johanna posted--many of those things are not cleared genetically, and you would want to see similar testing from the stud.
Do you have time for a litter? I know newborn puppies require an awful lot of care, and raising and socializing puppies is a big job when done right. Maybe take a look at Puppy Culture. Do you have 2-3 months to devote to puppy care?
From an emotional perspective... I can never see myself breeding a dog. It's WAY too much risk and heartbreak if things go poorly for mom and pups (even years down the line). But you need to make that decision for yourself. Breeding sure isn't for the faint of heart.
All the best for you and Coco
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
Join now to ask and comment!