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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
my name is John Loggins and my wife is Wendy.

I have already been fortunate to be educated a bit from a fellow member,,, the topic is Merle dogs. so even they are very pretty but not to be trusted... I can't afford a sick dog and have always had purebreds.

We live in Florida ,,,I am originally from Texas (military career) and met my lovely wife here and she is from Devon England....
 

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Welcome. Hope you and Wendy find the perfect poodle.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Hello and welcome! What size poodle are you looking for?
a Moyen size around 30 pounds would be perfect for our lifestyle. we lost our Brittany 2 years ago. she was a handfull. compared to the Labs I have had. very high "prey drive" which we enjoyed and controlled,,,but her separation anxiety was problematic. we had poodles growing up....and I love how smart they are. My Niki opened the gate with his snout,,,
 

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Luca red tpoo and Matteo blue Spoo
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Welcome to you both. I live in Denmark, where we have four sizes. As I understand it, the American sizing (a large mini or small standard) is equivalent to the European moyen size. I have also seen the term 'moyen' being used as a marketing term and a way of asking a higher price in America.
In reality, you should expect your poodle to live 15+ years and therefore needs to have a happy and pain-free life as possible. I believe health, temperament and conformation are essential. Showing or participating in agility etc is a way of having a judge weigh in on how close your dog is to breed standards. Even if you don't want to participate in those activities, you want to get a pup from a dam and sire who have been evaluated. Good luck in your search.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
thank you Minie, Moyen size would be perfect for us because hotels generally want your dog to be under 25 pounds. thanks for the welcome, I need to learn as much as possible.
 

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thank you Minie, Moyen size would be perfect for us because hotels generally want your dog to be under 25 pounds. thanks for the welcome, I need to learn as much as possible.
This info helps.

Something important for you to know is that if there are more than 10 quality, conscientious medium (moyen) poodles breeders in the entire US, I can only remember seeing 5 breeder names, at least 3 of which cowpony mentioned in the other thread, in my years since joining. True medium poodles from conscientious breeders are essentially unicorns.

The names that have been brought up thru multiple posts on the search for medium poodles are

Moonrise
Karbit
Noir

WeKay are breeding intervariety miniature to standard with a generally expected height of 16"-21" per their website.

Two complicating factors come into play beyond things mentioned in the post you joined in on.

The first is that regardless of the parents height and weight, the prior generations need to be considered also. This means that genetics will have it's little jokes on us and there is no way to accurately predict mature height and weight of a poodle from any breeding.

If you go with an intervariety, going larger than you're hoping for is a real and strong possibility. If you plan on traveling with your poodle and have found there is often a weight limit, intervariety would be a last choice for you unless boarding or having a sitter is acceptable to you.

The other issue is the possibility of compromised structure until the breeder gets this set genetically.
I'll let the words of the Apricot/Red Poodle Club history describe this:

The problem came later. The heads were Standard Poodles, the legs short like Miniature Poodles.

This was the breeding plan to get the red color in standard poodles. In their case, they were bringing the red from miniatures to standards and it took a few generations to get color and structure to where they wanted it.

The FCI medium (moyen) variety has been bred for a number of generations in those countries with FCI registry so those will be more predictable, but surprises may still happen. This is a lot of why you'll see the focus on those who're using more predictable breeding stock from countries that allow that variety in conformation competitions, to prove they meet the poodle blueprint for their variety.

That can't happen in the US or Canada because that variety has no class to compete in. Up to 15" they're considered a miniature, over 15" they're a standard and small standards aren't very competitive in the arena. Not their fault, it's just that judges prefer standards over 20"

If you look at the sites of each of the breeders using imported FCI mediums you'll see a range that keeps you and your poodle in hotels :). I understand that since my husband and I like to travel, we like to take our mpoo boys with us, and since 2002, we've had 2 at a time.

If having offspring from imported FCI medium poodles isn't as important to you as having a sturdier but still portable poodle, consider expanding your search to miniatures.

There are far, far more miniature breeders to choose from, and with breeders leaning to the top end of 15" in height, you're likely to find "oversize" miniatures. We have a surprising number of members with oversize minis and they do hit your target re travelling.

Courtesy of Pavie:

It's updated on page 1 & 2. Here's the most recent version, for easy access:
:) :):)

Font Material property Pattern Parallel Symmetry


Note the 15"-20" range where most folk think a medium (moyen) poodle would be. Those are miniatures.
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Technology



Water Rectangle Slope Font Parallel


Note the miniatures that climb into that gap (technically medium/moyen is13.75" up to
17.75 inch)
Water Rectangle Slope Font Parallel



Slope Rectangle Parallel Font Symmetry


Note that the only standards under 20" are still under 1y
Rectangle Slope Plot Line Font
 
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
thanks so much rose n poos....I will do my research. I am worried that a mini will not be able to go in our large dog park...poodles are light and tall, I may look at the mini Golden doodle....I am suffering from information overload.
 

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Really sorry but I'm about to throw more info on you.
This is important if health and temperament are important to you.

Copied from another thread.

It's easy to think that the reason crossbreeds aren't "liked" when you hit a purebred forum is because of the dogs.

That's not the reason.
The reason is the breeders.

First, no breeder that I consider a quality, conscientious breeder who has worked so hard to make sure that their dogs meet their particular breed standard, and pass the heath testing, are going to allow their individual dogs or their kennel reputation to be involved in creating cross breed dogs.
This will hold true for any purebred breeder.

This means that virtually any breeder crossing breeds is working with dogs that are not likely to have been health tested or proven to meet the standard for that breed. They will not have the better dogs to breed from.

They're also not likely if breeding their own dogs to do the health testing for every breeding dog of the two or more breeds that they're crossing and they're not likely to be showing their dogs to prove they meet their specific breed standard before breeding.

They may refer to these crosses as a "breed", even as a "designer breed". That's nothing but marketing.

Mixing two (or more) breeds is truly a double barrel genetic shotgun. It takes generations of knowledgeable breeders and very selective breeding to create a reproducible genetic result identifiable as a separate breed.

Until/unless that happens, the results will be unpredictable. You have different sizes, different physical structure, different performance reasons that the breeds were developed for, different temperaments, different coat types, different heritable health issues...

A quality breeder of purebred dogs is looking at each of those characteristics and more before they pair dogs of the same breed, let alone add in the surprises of another breed.


Practically every one of us has had a "designer breed" dog in their life. We just called them mixes and didn't pay thousands of dollars for them.
 

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I am worried that a mini will not be able to go in our large dog park
Do you mean the park is large or the dogs are?
Is a dog park your only option for off leash play and exercise?

In my area there's a few dedicated smaller dog parks, usually under 30lb, which minimizes some of the dangers.

We've stopped going because there are just too many oblivious owners and untrained dogs, and that's before we even get out of the parking lot.
 
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