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Hello. We are currently in the process of trying to add a new miniature or toy poodle to our family. Any advice on breeders in the tri-state area would be greatly appreciated. Has anyone ever had any experience with KC Poodles of PA, Light and Lively Poodles from Staten Island, or Eriand Poodles from Port Washington? If so what were your experiences like? Are there any we should stay away from? Thanks!
 

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Hi and Welcome!

I believe we have some members with personal experience with Light and Lively as well as Eriand. You may not hear from them til after the holiday, but if you use the Search function at the top of the page (I usually go to the Advanced option) I think you'll find some mentions.

Good luck in your poodle hunt!
 

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Welcome! Good luck with your search.

I looked at KC poodles, and they have a lot of red flags. I would definitely look elsewhere. Some of the things that made me go yikes:

-Inter variety toy/mini crosses
-super short tail docking
-non registered dogs
-apparent poor conformation
-all puppies sold with breeding rights (actually I'm not even sure they're akc registered)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Hi and Welcome!

I believe we have some members with personal experience with Light and Lively as well as Eriand. You may not hear from them til after the holiday, but if you use the Search function at the top of the page (I usually go to the Advanced option) I think you'll find some mentions.

Good luck in your poodle hunt!
Thank you! I will do that!
 

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Welcome! Good luck with your search.

I looked at KC poodles, and they have a lot of red flags. I would definitely look elsewhere. Some of the things that made me go yikes:

-Inter variety toy/mini crosses
-super short tail docking
-non registered dogs
-apparent poor conformation
-all puppies sold with breeding rights (actually I'm not even sure they're akc registered)
Thank you! I thought those were red flags too! I’m a little confused because I did get their name off of the akc website!
 

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Thank you! I thought those were red flags too! I’m a little confused because I did get their name off of the akc website!
Well it's possible that some of their litters are akc registered and others are not. They say something about some of their dogs being registered, which to me suggests that at least some of the litters are unregistered as both parents would need to be to register the pups. It would be nice if the AKC only linked to good reputable breeders, but I think they don't have the ability to police stuff like that. I am sure you'll find references for good breeders on here. I know Light and Lively has had a lot of good mentions.
 

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Hello. We are currently in the process of trying to add a new miniature or toy poodle to our family. Any advice on breeders in the tri-state area would be greatly appreciated. Has anyone ever had any experience with KC Poodles of PA, Light and Lively Poodles from Staten Island, or Eriand Poodles from Port Washington? If so what were your experiences like? Are there any we should stay away from? Thanks!


Welcome :) I’m in Canada so I can’t give you advice on specific breeders but a bit of advice I do have is if the breeders you are looking at are AKC registered, you can always call the AKC and tell them you would like to know if each specific breeder is in good standing or not :)


 

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Welcome! Good luck with your search.

I looked at KC poodles, and they have a lot of red flags. I would definitely look elsewhere. Some of the things that made me go yikes:

-Inter variety toy/mini crosses
-super short tail docking
-non registered dogs
-apparent poor conformation
-all puppies sold with breeding rights (actually I'm not even sure they're akc registered)
I looked at the KC website just now and additionally their "health testing" is a DNA panel from Wisdom Panel (owned by the Mars Company). That's not the health testing done by a quality breeder, tho can be useful or interesting info for an owner. Health testing is for specific issues in the breed, and is done on the sire and dam to ensure the breed is being improved by weeding out genetically transmitted weaknesses.The health testing is OFA/CHIC:

https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=MIN

https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=TOY

*** ETA The testing they've done is "Optimal Selection" which according to the Optimal Selection webpage:

Can I use my results for listing with OFA’s CHIC?
Yes! We are recognized by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) as an authorized DNA laboratory, and Optimal Selection results can be used for results listing on the Canine Health Information Center (CHIC). Instructions for submission of those results to OFA can be found on the Optimal Selection web portal under each dog’s account. ***

If their poodle puppies are all 100% purebred poodles, there's no reason that every single pup wouldn't be AKC registered. All that proves is that the pup is purebred based on parentage. Why state "the majority of our dogs are AKC registered unless noted" and then state "all the poodle puppies are 100% pure bred Poodles". It makes me wonder what else they might be breeding.

I'm also concerned that they state they are licensed thru the State of Pennsylvania. That sounds great except that generally kennels are only licensed when they have a large number of dogs on site and therefore come under the oversight of the Agriculture Department. A large number of dogs on site is not generally what a quality breeder has.

Another concern is the reference to the "wolf pack hierarchy". That concept has been generally debunked. If what they're trying to say is that pups are corrected by their family members, ok, sure, but the Alpha concept is not really valid in dog families.

We've all been thru the search, and have all learned as we go. Breeder websites
vary in content and frequency of updating but after you look over a selection, you'll get a feel for who's breeding for profit and who's breeding for the love of the breed and is investing in their dogs by showing to prove their abilities or training and breed specific health testing, for a start.

Keep looking. keep asking, keep hoping ;) Your pup is out there!
 

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I've seen good mention on this forum of Light and Lively Poodles from Staten Island, andEriand Poodles from Port Washington. Haven't looked at the other you mentioned. I'm sure you willlhear from some members have have their pups.
 

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My mom has an Eriand mpoo. He is the perfect dog for her. He finished on the small end of the mpoo spectrum so it is easy for her to pick him up if needed (mom is 83) but he is always up for a nice sturdy walk (good for both of them). She comes to my novice training class almost every week so he is good around all sorts of other dogs (there is a young male ridgeback in that class).
 
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Wow thanks!! I am still learning so I didn’t know all of this! I assumed that the genetic testing she did was what was supposed to be done! I also looked it up on the department of agriculture page and she does have a lot more dogs than I thought!

Welcome! Good luck with your search.

I looked at KC poodles, and they have a lot of red flags. I would definitely look elsewhere. Some of the things that made me go yikes:

-Inter variety toy/mini crosses
-super short tail docking
-non registered dogs
-apparent poor conformation
-all puppies sold with breeding rights (actually I'm not even sure they're akc registered)
I looked at the KC website just now and additionally their "health testing" is a DNA panel from Wisdom Panel (owned by the Mars Company). That's not the health testing done by a quality breeder, tho can be useful or interesting info for an owner. Health testing is for specific issues in the breed, and is done on the sire and dam to ensure the breed is being improved by weeding out genetically transmitted weaknesses.The health testing is OFA/CHIC:

https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=MIN

https://www.ofa.org/recommended-tests?breed=PO&var=TOY

*** ETA The testing they've done is "Optimal Selection" which according to the Optimal Selection webpage:

Can I use my results for listing with OFA’s CHIC?
Yes! We are recognized by the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals (OFA) as an authorized DNA laboratory, and Optimal Selection results can be used for results listing on the Canine Health Information Center (CHIC). Instructions for submission of those results to OFA can be found on the Optimal Selection web portal under each dog’s account. ***

If their poodle puppies are all 100% purebred poodles, there's no reason that every single pup wouldn't be AKC registered. All that proves is that the pup is purebred based on parentage. Why state "the majority of our dogs are AKC registered unless noted" and then state "all the poodle puppies are 100% pure bred Poodles". It makes me wonder what else they might be breeding.

I'm also concerned that they state they are licensed thru the State of Pennsylvania. That sounds great except that generally kennels are only licensed when they have a large number of dogs on site and therefore come under the oversight of the Agriculture Department. A large number of dogs on site is not generally what a quality breeder has.

Another concern is the reference to the "wolf pack hierarchy". That concept has been generally debunked. If what they're trying to say is that pups are corrected by their family members, ok, sure, but the Alpha concept is not really valid in dog families.

We've all been thru the search, and have all learned as we go. Breeder websites
vary in content and frequency of updating but after you look over a selection, you'll get a feel for who's breeding for profit and who's breeding for the love of the breed and is investing in their dogs by showing to prove their abilities or training and breed specific health testing, for a start.

Keep looking. keep asking, keep hoping
Your pup is out there!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
My mom has an Eriand mpoo. He is the perfect dog for her. He finished on the small end of the mpoo spectrum so it is easy for her to pick him up if needed (mom is 83) but he is always up for a nice sturdy walk (good for both of them). She comes to my novice training class almost every week so he is good around all sorts of other dogs (there is a young male ridgeback in that class).
Thanks!
 

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Hi and welcome. I had to drive through several states to find my minipoo. They can be difficult to find since there are less minipoos bred compared to spoos and tpoos.
 

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I have seen some large toys as big as mini's. I got a lovely dog adult in Berkeley springs W VA. Went to see her first and the place was lovely and clean as a pin, and the dogs were toys. My Sages grandfather was a champion. She does not show anymore I guess do to age and travel.
 

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Welcome! Good luck with your search.

I looked at KC poodles, and they have a lot of red flags. I would definitely look elsewhere. Some of the things that made me go yikes:

-Inter variety toy/mini crosses
-super short tail docking
-non registered dogs
-apparent poor conformation
-all puppies sold with breeding rights (actually I'm not even sure they're akc registered)
I just thought I would correct something here. We are not show breeders as of yet; we sell pet quality but have all intentions improving our line as we go. Last year acquired a male from Tiny Companions with 52 champions in his bloodline. He just had his first 2 litters. We are state licensed and all of our dogs are AKC. I release full rights maybe 3 times per year.

We have (currently) 22 akc registered (not all full grown) toy adults on site. We have one small mini who is 12 pounds-she makes small pups. Her height disqualifies her as being a mini anyway. Her personality and healthy pups make wonderful family pets. We no longer breed miniatures. We have a pair of small yorkies whom we love that have not yet produced a litter. All of our dogs live in our home and as a family make it a full time thing along with homeschooling our 3 kids. I don’t think being state licensed has anything to do with NOT being a good, law abiding citizen with zero criminal background. If you look on the state agricultural site you can see we have passed our inspections with no citations. When you live in a puppy mill dominated state-you want to be very careful to do what is right! If you are aware of PA law, you must be registered in our state if 20 or more puppies are sold in a year. I believe when we started 2 years ago we had 20 pups our first year. Having a few breeding bitches does not equate to a quality breeder. In order to get where we want to be, lots of breeding must be done.

I realize no one here has possibly had an experience with us yet. As we grow as breeders we want to learn from our mistakes and do better each time. I did a search on us not just out of curiosity; but how I can possibly improve. We do PRA-prcd testing on all our dogs. Optimal selection is actually pretty decent as far as genetic testing goes; 150+ genetic conditions and helps the breeder match specific qualities by DNA. Optimal selection is OFA certified. We have our dogs all examined by a vet who is ahaa accredited (double the amount of required education yearly). The pups are all checked before going home which includes patellar examinations. We have a 2 year genetic guarantee.

If you mean wolf pack as; my dogs follow me all day long, respect us and understand general obedience as wolf pack hierarchy, then that would be correct. They know I’m the mommy here.
 

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Welcome Kara. Opinions can fly fast and furious here, as with any group of passionate people. Some concerns are a good learning opportunity: the kinds of health testing that we should expect a good breeder to provide, the benefits of posting OFA results, etc. Others are just matters on which we must simply agree to disagree: AKC vs UKC, whether it's ok to breed for parti-factor, and so forth. You are doing the right thing to check into ways you can improve.

You mentioned that you sometimes don't sell a pup with papers, because it was sired by the new male. Do you mean no papers at all, not even limited? If so, why? This would raise red flags in many buyers. It limits the ability of the buyer to participate in AKC events like agility, and it would also raise concerns that the pups aren't actually purebred.
 

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Thank you for the welcome :) to answer your question about no papers -

When we first started I let the kids get some experience by having one and only one litter of chi-poo. After that I wanted nothing to do with mixes. It attracted the wrong kinds of people imo. I am past due with updating some of the specific wording on the website that I’ll be fixing. Out of the respect of the breeders of my sire; I didn’t pair him with my best female (where I didn’t plan to register the litter). I really look up to them and don’t want to disappoint.

Sometimes I register late; this is something I’m working on: I always get the papers to the owners and or show them a receipt that they have been ordered if I am late. Paperwork isn’t my strong point yet but working on it.

Anyone can test the pups to ensure purity. That is exactly what I do when I purchase from another breeder, as well as akc dna. In the past an AKC pup I’ve purchased from another breeder was AKC registered and not checked out as purebred. Live and learn right?

Hope this helps :)
 

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Your information about avoiding doodle breeding going forward is a good clarification.

I haven't checked out your website. However, you should consider that your website is the first impression most of your potential customers will get. You only have one chance to make a good first impression. So, figure out what is most important to you as a breeder and what kind of customer you want. Then make sure everything on your website accurately conveys who you are, and that it sends the right message to the kinds of buyers you want. If you say that you breed for health, but you don't show OFA results...then you won't appeal to buyers who worry about health.

Also, in the business world, there is a concept of "past behavior predicts future behavior." It's commonly used in interviewing job candidates and potential contractors. Basically, it means that people usually act the same way each time they get into a similar situation. The leopard can't change his spots. In your situation, if you are sloppy about paperwork, I as a buyer would ask what else you are sloppy about. Just food for thought.
 

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Hello Kara, it is good to hear from breeders trying to improve their practices. I see your website is down right now, but it will be good to see the changes you are making reflected in it when it's back up. One thing that I think would really help to ensure healthy pups is to complete CHIC recommended tests for your breeding adults. Patellas would be my biggest concern. It is good that puppies are checked, but as a buyer I would really want to see that the adults completed their OFA Patellar Luxation examination (min. 1 yr of age). It is an important concern with toy breeds. Additionally, you might want to consider putting a Championship title on your new sire. I notice that Tiny Companions doesn't show their dogs and sells all their puppies with full registration, so putting a title on your dog would really help to ensure that he is of good structure and will improve your line.
 
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