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Hi everyone! Poodle newbie here. I have only had border collies previously, and have developed allergies to dogs. I seem to do okay with poodles,
though, and would be happy to have one-- I've heard that the standard poodle in particular is amazing. My allergy doctor, however, suggests I get a smaller dog so there are less allergens in general in the house. I am wary of getting a miniature-- I really want the temperament of a standard. So I am interested in getting a moyen, which, if I understand correctly, is bred from spoos, so retain the standard temperament? I'm looking at Karbit Poodles and wonder, for those of you who have one, how do you like them?

Also, for those of you who minis, do you think their temperament really is much different from moyens/kleins? The size difference between the two doesn't matter to me, just potential differences in temperament. As someone who adores border collies, I feel the spoo is actually quite similar, but I'm not sure about the mini. Thanks for any thoughts you can share about this!

Bailey
 

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You could also look for a smaller standard, quite a number of members here have them. I have a mini, i only had retrievers before and he is definitely not neurotic like my lab. He is super smart and eager to learn. I also used to own a husky and damn they are stubborn. In terms of activities, I heard mini’s are the most active of the poodle family. My mini is definitely hardy but also comes with an off switch. I don’t do dog sports due to availability but I don’t tnink you can go wrong with a mini or a standard. Moyen are harder to find and it seems only karbit poodles are the only legit moyen breeder.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for your responses! I don't think I have a good understanding of the mini-- maybe visiting some local breeders and meeting their dogs would be helpful.

I used to do dog sports with my border collies and loved it. Now that I'm older and am in a different stage of life, I'm ready to take things slower. I still want to be active and have a good parternship with my dog, but long walks in the woods sound good, and I would love to do therapy work if the dog is so inclined.
 

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Moyens are hard to find, but my understanding is that Karbit is doing a great job with them. Be aware also that if you got a standard from a breeder who is active in conformation you are not likely to end up with a super large dog since that is not what they breed for. My two standards are 22 3/4"/37 pounds and 24"/50 pounds respectively with my boy being the larger dog. Both of them are from good show lines and have Ch. sires. When Lily was younger (but finished growing) people used to try to convince me she was a moyen not a standard.
 
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A larger toy would also be a very good option, considering their size and because of your allergies.

A 6-8 pound toy will be able to walk as long as you want. They’re easier to maintain, it takes less time to groom. And less chances of allergies.

I too have allergies and I will still react a bit to my toys. No asthma most of the time, but they give me itchy eyes and sneezing sometimes.

Minis are very energetic and need a lot of exercise. A toy will be less demanding on that aspect.
 

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Both moyens and miniatures are scarcer than standards, but not impossible to find. There are historical threads on this site about others’ searches. Find a breeder(s) that meets your needs and get on their list. A good breeder can pick the right personality dog for you, regardless of size.

Some PF members report being allergic to one litter/dog and not another. It may be possible to schedule a visit to test allergic reaction before committing.
 

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Both moyens and miniatures are scarcer than standards, but not impossible to find. There are historical threads on this site about others’ searches. Find a breeder(s) that meets your needs and get on their list. A good breeder can pick the right personality dog for you, regardless of size.

Some PF members report being allergic to one litter/dog and not another. It may be possible to schedule a visit to test allergic reaction before committing.
I suppose some people know right away, but for me I need at least 2-3 weeks with the dog to know. I think in cases where asthma is involved, it takes longer. I don’t know if the OP has allergic asthma or not.
 

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My mini was very active the first two years but not neurotic. She just wanted to play and play. Now that she is 6yrs she’s pretty laid back but is ready to go when I am. If you like the larger size you can look for a larger mini. My girl is 17lbs and 15 1/2 inch’s tall. Still light enough that I can pick her up if I need to. Though I also don’t let my dogs get overweight..nothing uglier than a fat dog lol.


My husband also has allergies but does fine with our poodle (also was fine with Yorkshire Terrier and Chinese Crested) . Put him in a house with any shedding dog and he is pretty miserable.
 

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The difference between a Mini and a Moyen is the same as the difference between a Dog and a Chien... no difference at all. Exactly the same animal, named in two different languages.
 

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The difference between a Mini and a Moyen is the same as the difference between a Dog and a Chien... no difference at all. Exactly the same animal, named in two different languages.
Not quite, the Moyen is a fourth variety that exists in Europe, but not in North America (or very rare). Some breeders here pretend they have Moyens (Kleins) but they don’t really, it’s mostly shorter standards.


https://www.dogcarelife.com/moyen-poodle/
 

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Not quite, the Moyen is a fourth variety that exists in Europe, but not in North America (or very rare). Some breeders here pretend they have Moyens (Kleins) but they don’t really, it’s mostly shorter standards.
Sry, D... I see your link as double-talk, a twisting of excuses to attempt to justify a fourth and maybe even a fifth line of invented Poodle sizes for Poodle snobs to stroke their ego. They don't have any of the common sizes, Toy, Mini or Standard, but they're especially special 'cos they have a 'different' Poodle size than all us commoners. If you're looking for Moyens or Kleins in North America you've been conned by Poodle snobs.
 

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Not double talk at all from Dechi who pointed out correctly that the fourth size is really only recognized in Europe not North America.



In North America the three recognized sizes are toy, miniature and standard. In Europe toy, miniature, moyen/klein and standard. I do object to intervariety breeding between minis and standards that people claim are moyens as a marketing gimmick just as much as I object to the use of teacup and royale for the extremes of sizes.
 

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Not double talk at all from Dechi who pointed out correctly that the fourth size is really only recognized in Europe not North America.

In North America the three recognized sizes are toy, miniature and standard.
Egg-zackly, C! Three recognized. That's why I would be super-wary of someone selling a Moyen, or a Klein. My guess is that they'd have some wonderful story of European roots... but all you have over here is a Mini.

Accuse Dechi of double talk?! Never...

I may need a friend in PQ one day. ;)
 

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I think that is what we have tried to convey to the OP, to be wary about moyens in North America. Karbit is the only moyen breeder in NA that I have heard good things about. too many others are from inter-variety breedings which is not the road to moyens. It seems as if we are making the same point from different perspectives.
 
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I always loved taking Tonka thru Quebec.

Where he becomes a 'Caniche Royal'.

Much more elegant the just a plain ol' Standard Poodle.
 

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There are oversized mini’s and smaller standards. I wouldn’t let allergies limit you to the moyen size. If you have had Border Collie’s, you will be delighted to train a poodle, in any case. Best wishes on your search.
 

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Egg-zackly, C! Three recognized. That's why I would be super-wary of someone selling a Moyen, or a Klein. My guess is that they'd have some wonderful story of European roots... but all you have over here is a Mini.

Accuse Dechi of double talk?! Never...

I may need a friend in PQ one day. ;)
You’re welcome anytime ! We’ll practice your french over «*un bon café*»!
 

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Just a fun little note: There was a Karbit poodle at FCAT this past weekend who will become the fastest poodle in the country. He had a converted MPH of 35+ MPH in two runs, which is freaky fast. I thought he was a mini, but I see he is registered as a spoo.
 
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