[Rose n Poos]

The short story:
“The thing that we didn’t expect to such a degree was that the Australian labradoodle retains a huge amount of poodle genome and doesn’t retain a lot of the Labrador retriever genome,” said Ostrander.

Labradoodle study reveals dogs are actually mostly poodle

Study of Australian labradoodle DNA suggests more poodles have been introduced over years

www.theguardian.com

Australian labradoodles are mostly poodle, genetic analysis reveals

By Rasha AridiSep. 11, 2020 , 4:30 PM

Breeding a Labrador retriever with a poodle results in playful, curly haired, first-generation labradoodle puppies that are a 50-50 cross between the two breeds. But when researchers analyzed 21 Australian labradoodles’ DNA and compared it with the DNA of purebred labs and poodles, they found that the genomes of later generations of labradoodles are almost entirely comprised of poodle DNA, New Scientist reports. When breeders select labradoodles that have the soft, curly coats of poodles, researchers suggest this week in PLOS Genetics, other large portions of poodle DNA hitch a ride on those chromosomes.

Australian labradoodles are mostly poodle, genetic analysis reveals

Decades of selective breeding have resulted in a dramatic change in labradoodles’ DNA

www.sciencemag.org

The long study:

Genetic analysis of the modern Australian labradoodle dog breed reveals an excess of the poodle genome

Author summary Due to the selective breeding practices used to create modern breeds, dogs suffer from an unacceptable excess of disease, one of several reasons behind the recent trend of creating “designer breeds.” Such populations result from crosses between established breeds, with a goal of...

journals.plos.org

the subplot in the long study:
This study demonstrates that changes in very few genes can define a new breed and demonstrates how breeds can form in a small number of generations.

 

[reraven123]

I have met two of them. One looks like a wheaten terrier cross, not remotely like a poodle, the other looks like some sort of doodle, but couldn't say mixed with what. Both seem like nice dogs, but not at all poodle-ey. Probably less like poodles than most of the doodles I have met.

 

[lily cd re]

Well that gives support to my view that if you want a nice smart and non-shedding dog just get a poodle, not an F1B sometin sometin backcross and claim that what you love about your fancy mutt is that it isn't very poodley.

 

[reraven123]

Actually, I had a conversation with the owner of the terrier looking "mutt" and he did say that the dog did not turn out as he expected, and he would consider a poodle next time. Some doodle owners actually do see the light!

 

[Ava.]

I mean.. Duh?

Never understood Doodles.. I will say I really DO like the look of a F1 Labradoodle.. do I support it? No.... but they are cute! (the ones with the wire/shag coat)

Most people like the multi generation doodles... the ones who are more poodle than labrador? The say they like the coat and temperment

well guess there the coat and temperment comes from? THE POODLE

just get a POODLE

 

[Dianaleez]

Please give me a quick recap: the poodle brings a non-shed coat, high intelligence, and sociability, and the lab brings what?

Don't get me wrong, I like labs. I like most dogs. But what more than coat, brains, and friendly genes are they looking for?

 

[reraven123]

According to breeders, labs bring coats that don't need to be brushed daily. Of course we all know this is absolutely not true, but it is being used as a selling point.

Also, labs (or whatever breed) are a selling point for manly men to buy the puppy.

 

[Ava.]

labs don't bring much..

phhs labs not shedding much? Ahaha.. there is hair everywhere at my house.

(coming from a labrador owner)

 

[Michigan Gal]

I can see the attraction of a doodle, after all they are half poodle. I do not understand spending top dollar for one.

 

[Rose n Poos]

Clarifying and highlighting some detail from the study

Today, the name labradoodle describes two populations. The first are F1 hybrids (LBD), which are simply the first-generation product of any LAB and SPOO cross. The Australian labradoodle breed (ALBD), which originated in 1989, is distinct from such hybrids. While also starting as a LAB and SPOO cross, it has since been propagated by planned crosses to establish a true-breeding population, meeting an established set of standards. With an original goal of producing a low-shedding service dog, offspring of the planned crosses are known today as Australian labradoodles, and fanciers seek to have it recognized by an international registry as a unique breed.

In this study we sought to understand how the ALBD breed was created by doing a whole genome analysis of multiple generations. We were specifically interested in determining how breed-defining traits would appear and stabilize given the breeding programs employed. We have used haplotype sharing and admixture analysis to identify constituent breeds. We identify parental breed-associated loci and variants that most strongly distinguish the ALBD from its founder breeds. Finally, an examination of linkage disequilibrium (LD) decay in multi-generational ALBD versus LBD provides insight as to the stability of a quickly developed breed.

We observe that the LBD and LAB are on the same branch, while the ALBD is found on the POOD branch.

We examined the ALBD genome to understand the genetic origins of the breed, including the reported introduction of at least five breeds in addition to the SPOO and LAB. We used genome-wide SNP data to determine if the modern ALBD achieves the metrics that define a distinct breed such as high inbreeding coefficients. By comparing breeds, we sought to understand how the ALBD has changed since its inception, approximately 10 generations earlier, and to identify traits preferred by breeders. Our data reveal that the modern ALBD is mostly POOD, and the POOD alleles related to coat are present in high frequency in the ALBD.

 

[cowpony]

Please give me a quick recap: the poodle brings a non-shed coat, high intelligence, and sociability, and the lab brings what?

Don't get me wrong, I like labs. I like most dogs. But what more than coat, brains, and friendly genes are they looking for?

In the original doodles, which were bred as service dogs, the goal was a non-shedding service dog. They started with an established line of service dogs, who were Labs, and crossed in poodle to get the coat quality. The dogs used were not random backyard bred Labs; they had long been bred for very specific behavior and temperament traits. Keeping these traits while producing an allergy friendly coat was the objective.

Of course, the majority of current doodles are NOT bred as service dogs the way that original group was. I distrust the claims of some breeders that say they do breed service dogs. Dumping extra puppies on a veteran's PTSD organization and taking the tax write-off isn't what I would consider a service dog program. However, I do see a few doodles here and there which look like marvelous service dogs: very chill temperaments, slightly heavier frame than a poodle, good quality coats. It's clear these few dogs are the real deal, no matter what their poodle percentages are.

 

[Raindrops]

Poodles are actually now considered one of the top 4 breeds for service dog work. I think the original poodles they tried to use just weren't of good lines with the temperaments they needed. Or they weren't as good with working with poodle temperaments. I don't know. I don't have any issue with doodles bred for service dog work if they're breeding for a very specific temperament and coat with less attention to breed. But that's typically done by service dog organizations, not individual breeders. I can certainly understand why a heavier framed dog would be preferred for mobility work.

I think the joke is certainly on the doodle owners. They just don't realize that they actually love poodles. I've overheard doodle owners whining that some negative trait their dog has is due to "the poodle." And I have to bite my tongue sooo hard.

There is one doodle that I occasionally see that I absolutely love. But it doesn't look like a doodle. It's 75% great dane 25% poodle. It has a slick dane coat. But it has elegant movement and more functionality than a normal dane. Just a little smaller and more refined looking. Lovely dog. It'll probably live longer than a purebred dane as well. I can't help but admire her when I see her.

 

[Rose n Poos]

I went on a tangent (surprised?) and searched OFA for Australian Labradoodle testing. The search brought up 297 pages of result I haven't looked thru them all.

https://www.ofa.org/advanced-search?num=&registrar=&namecontains=N&part=&namecontains=N&breed%5B%5D=LD+&variety%5B%5D=&sex=&country=&birthday_start_month=&birthday_start_year=&birthday_end_month=&birthday_end_year=&birthday=&rptdte_start_month=&rptdte_start_year=&rptdte_end_month=&rptdte_end_year=&rptdte=&btnSearch=Begin+Search

 

[Oonapup]

There is one doodle that I occasionally see that I absolutely love. But it doesn't look like a doodle. It's 75% great dane 25% poodle. It has a slick dane coat. But it has elegant movement and more functionality than a normal dane. Just a little smaller and more refined looking. Lovely dog. It'll probably live longer than a purebred dane as well. I can't help but admire her when I see her.

One of Oona's neighborhood buddies is a doodle that is similar. She's 1/8 poodle and 7/8 Golden retriever and looks like a standard poodle in a golden retriever suit - narrower and lither and pointier than any golden I've seen but with a golden's coat, ears, and tail shape. If I didn't know she was a poodle cross I'd have guessed greyhound or whippet was in there somewhere. She's quite lovely.