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Hi there! I am new to the group. I am having a hard time finding a breeder that is a caring, kind breeder thats main concern is the health and well being of her dogs? I want a good dispositioned well balanced dog/pup? Socialized and that stays with the mother dog and her siblings long enough to develop into a happy sound dog. Anyone out there can you refer me to someone and explain why you chose that breeder? So many fakes out there with this covid just looking to make money and I want someone who love animals and actually I would love a breeder that isn’t into docking their tails? Thank you all!
 

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Hi and Welcome!

Quality, conscientious breeders have a waitlist even during the best of times. Pandemic puppy seekers have stretched that waitlist til well into 2021.

Until some more members drop by I'm going to drop some some reference materials for you.

The first is a shortish essay on why the kind of breeder you choose makes a huge difference in the health and quality of your new companion.

The second is my personal checklist for the criteria I expect from a breeder.

The third is a link to a Breeder List with health resources, multi state lists, Poodle Clubs and finally, individual listings by state.

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"I don’t want a show dog; I just want a pet.
by Joanna Kimball on July 13, 2010

This is one of the most pervasive sentiments that puppy buyers, especially families, express when they're looking for a dog. What they really mean, of course, is that they don't want a show BREEDER – don't want to pay the high price they think show breeders charge, don't want to go through the often-invasive interview process, and think that they're getting a better deal or a real bargain because they can get a Lab for $300 or a Shepherd for $150.

I want you to change your mind. I want you to not only realize the benefits of buying a show-bred dog, I want you to INSIST on a show-bred dog. And I want you to realize that the cheap dog is really the one that's the rip-off. And then I want you to go be obnoxious and, when your workmate says she's getting a puppy because her neighbor, who raises them, will give her one for free, or when your brother-in-law announces that they're buying a goldendoodle for the kids, I want you to launch yourself into their solar plexus and steal their wallets and their car keys.

Here's why:

If I ask you why you want a Maltese, or a Lab, or a Leonberger, or a Cardigan, I would bet you're not going to talk about how much you like their color. You're going to tell me things about personality, ability (to perform a specific task), relationships with other animals or humans, size, coat, temperament, and so on. You'll describe playing ball, or how affectionate you've heard that they are, or how well they get along with kids.

The things you will be looking for aren't the things that describe just "dog"; they'll be the things that make this particular breed unique and unlike other breeds.

That's where people have made the right initial decision – they've taken the time and made the effort to understand that there are differences between breeds and that they should get one that at least comes close to matching their picture of what they want a dog to be.

Their next step, tragically, is that they go out and find a dog of that breed for as little money and with as much ease as possible.

You need to realize that when you do this, you're going to the used car dealership, WATCHING them pry the "Audi" plate off a new car, observing them as they use Bondo to stick it on a '98 Corolla, and then writing them a check and feeling smug that you got an Audi for so little.

It is no bargain.

Those things that distinguish the breed you want from the generic world of "dog" are only there because somebody worked really hard to get them there. And as soon as that work ceases, the dog, no matter how purebred, begins to revert to the generic. That doesn't mean you won't get a good dog – the magic and the blessing of dogs is that they are so hard to mess up, in their good souls and minds, that even the most hideously bred one can still be a great dog – but it will not be a good Shepherd, or good Puli, or a good Cardigan. You will not get the specialized abilities, tendencies, or talents of the breed.

If you don't NEED those special abilities or the predictability of a particular breed, you should not be buying a dog at all. You should go rescue one. That way you're saving a life and not putting money in pockets where it does not belong.

If you want a purebred and you know that a rescue is not going to fit the bill, the absolute WORST thing you can do is assume that a name equals anything. They really are nothing more than name plates on cars. What matters is whether the engineering and design and service department back up the name plate, so you have some expectation that you're walking away with more than a label.

Keeping a group of dogs looking and acting like their breed is hard, HARD work. If you do not get the impression that the breeder you're considering is working that hard, is that dedicated to the breed, is struggling to produce dogs that are more than a breed name, you are getting no bargain; you are only getting ripped off."

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This doesn't mean a breeder who doesn't compete with their dogs can't produce wonderful dogs too. In a way, the breeders investment in proper breed testing, competing, socializing puppies, all these and more are like insurance for the new family. They're not absolute guarantees, but they can sure be a benefit.

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My Personal Breeder Requirements


My criteria need not be yours but I think it's important for a potential poodle owner to understand why these criteria are important in choosing a conscientious breeder and to get a well bred puppy to share life with for many years to come.
Every one of these is a talking point a conscientious breeder will welcome, just not all at the same time :)


My ideal breeder is someone who is doing this because they love the breed.
They want to see each new generation born at least as good as the previous, ideally better.
They provide for every dog in their care as if that dog is their own.
They will be there for the new family, and stand behind that pup for it's lifetime, rain or shine, with or without a contract.
They will know the standards and pedigrees of their chosen breed, health and genetic diversity of their lines, and breed to better them.
They will know of the latest studies in health standards for their chosen breed and variety and do the health testing of their breeding dogs.
They will have as many questions for me as I do for them.
They invest in their dogs. They don't expect the dogs to support them.

Breeding Program
! to maintain, improve, strengthen the breed
by breeding to standard, for health and genetic diversity,
and will prove their dogs meet these standards by showing or competing
or by breeding from titled parents. It's not the title, but what it shows
! focus is on quality, never quantity
! they do not cross breed
! they limit breeding to one to two breeds
! they limit breeding to only a few litters per year *

Breeding Parents
! registry information available
AKC Registry Lookup
https://www.apps.akc.org/apps/store/search/dog_lookup.cfm?returnpage=undefined&_=2770
! not too old or young for breeding
! not overbred
see https://www.poodleforum.com/threads/asking-questions-from-a-breeder.273579/post-3294246
and https://www.poodleforum.com/threads/frequency-of-breeding-a-bitch.20388/
! genetic health testing done appropriate to breed and variety
! other health testing by exam such as annual eye, hips, patellas
! results of testing on own website, OFA site or testing lab
see http://vipoodle.org/health/health-related-publications/
and OFA Lookup https://www.ofa.org/look-up-a-dog

Living Conditions
! in home with family
! breeder allows, even encourages home visits

Puppies
! routine and urgent vet care, immunizations, dewormings
! socialization
! first groomings
! registry papers
! they will not require spay/neuter before physical maturity
! health "guarantee" generally favors the breeder, not the buyer.
health guarantee is no replacement for health testing of dam and sire.
does the contract/guarantee/warranty rule out covering conditions the parents should have been tested for
do you fully understand the terms of any contract/guarantee/warranty and can you live with them
beginning housetraining is a bonus
temperament testing is helpful

Advertising
! individual website to detail history of breeder, goals for their program
! information on dams, sires, puppies
! no trend pricing for color, gender or size,
! no marketing gimmick terms like "teacup" "royal"


! Anything not found on a public online site should be provided by breeder before buying.

* Many people prefer small scale breeders because they feel the puppies will have better socialization and it's very unlikely to be a puppy mill-like operation.
This doesn't mean that larger scale breeders can't do things right. The breeder of record may not be hands on with every pup or poodle on the place but they should make sure that all the quality of life and attention are paid to all their dogs.

If a breeder wants me to believe that they believe in their dogs, they won't stop the investment when it comes time to find the new families. If they want to cut costs by using free advertising sites like craigslist or listing on retail marketplaces like puppyspot or puppyfind, or other classified ad sites such as newspapers, I wonder what else they've cut costs on.

Contact a few breeders to introduce yourself. Even if they don't have or don't offer what you're looking for, it can be a close knit community. They may know where to refer you.

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🐩 Breeders Listed by Location 🐩 Plus Additional Resources 🐩
GEOGRAPHICAL BREEDERS LIST AND ADDITIONAL RESOURCES PLEASE READ THIS FIRST What this list is NOT: This list is not an endorsement of any breeder by Poodle Forum This list is not a list to just go buy from without doing more investigation This list is not comprehensive What this list IS: This...
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It would be a huge help to know what size dog you want.
 

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Mia, Christmas in June 2010
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When you say "smaller size," do you mean a toy or a miniature? Toys in the US are up to 10" tall at the whithers (top of the shoulders) and miniatures are up to 15" tall. (Standard poodles are over 15" tall.) Weight varies considerably, but to give an estimate, I'd say toys generally weigh around 5-10 pounds, whereas miniatures typically weigh around 12-20 lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
When you say "smaller size," do you mean a toy or a miniature? Toys in the US are up to 10" tall at the whithers (top of the shoulders) and miniatures are up to 15" tall. (Standard poodles are over 15" tall.) Weight varies considerably, but to give an estimate, I'd say toys generally weigh around 5-10 pounds, whereas miniatures typically weigh around 12-20 lbs.
Minature would be great. I can’t find a breeder in or close to massachusetts ? Thank you
 

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Even before the pandemic it would often be necessary to travel further and wait longer than anticipated.
Was there no breeder either individually or in the multi groups or by using the Poodle Club breeder referral folks within a days drive that appealed to you?

As a refresher...

Health testing of the breeding parents is a good indicator of a quality, conscientious breeder. The Breeder List has info on what to look for in the testing for each variety. Mentioning health testing on a site is nice but isn't proof. For proof, look for health testing results spelled out on the breeder's site, then verify for yourself by going to the site the results are published on. If you don't find any evidence of testing or can't find the info but the breeder appeals to you, contact them and ask where you might see the testing they do. Reputable breeders put in a lot of effort to make sure they're breeding the healthiest poodles and will be happy to talk about it and provide the info.

A caution that a health "guarantee" on a puppy doesn't have much to back it if the sire and dam were not given the testing for breed and variety. "Guarantees" without the testing often favor the breeder, more than the buyer.

Conscientious breeders have a waitlist at the best of times and with pandemic puppy seekers, that wait is stretched well into 2021. There have been more than a few serendipitous contacts between seeker and breeder, so don't be put off by the thought of a waitlist. Also, don't be put off if online sites aren't particularly updated. As often as not, breeders may prefer communicating by phone as well as email or text, and are busy with their dogs rather than keep a website updated.

When you start making contacts, let them know if you're open to an older pup or young adult.
Color preferences are understandable but keep in mind that you're limiting your options even further in a very limited supply of puppies. Many poodle colors change thru their lives.
Temperament is lifelong trait.

Be prepared to spend in the range of $2000 to $3500 USD. Conscientious breeders are not padding pricing due to Covid.

Be prepared to travel outside your preferred area.

As a very general rule, websites to be leery of are those that feature cutesy puppies with bows and such, little or no useful info on sires or dams, the word "Order" or "Ordering" (these are living beings, not appliances) and a PayPal or "pay here" button prominently featured "for your convenience".


An excellent source for breeder referrals is your local or the regional or national Poodle Club. An online search for "Poodle Club of ___ (your city or state)" will find them. You can also go directly to the national club site.

Some Poodle Club links are in the Breeder List.
 

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Massachusetts seems to be rather thin on the kind of breeder I'd want to get a toy or mini from, unfortunately. I have no personal experience with either one, but two names I've encountered are Betse Curtis (western MA) and Lavandair in Concord NH. If you were willing to go with a toy my suggestion would be Rodell in Connecticut. I would also suggest reaching out to the Poodle Club of Massachusetts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Massachusetts seems to be rather thin on the kind of breeder I'd want to get a toy or mini from, unfortunately. I have no personal experience with either one, but two names I've encountered are Betse Curtis (western MA) and Lavandair in Concord NH. If you were willing to go with a toy my suggestion would be Rodell in Connecticut. I would also suggest reaching out to the Poodle Club of Massachusetts.
Do you know if these breeders were suggested by the Poodle Club of Massachusetts? I will go look on their site. Thank you.
 

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Do you know if these breeders were suggested by the Poodle Club of Massachusetts? I will go look on their site. Thank you.
Lavandair is a member, I believe. Not sure about Betse Curtis. As I said, I have no personal experience with either breeder; I've just seen the names come up.
 
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