[cbrand]

This came up in another thread and I thought that it was important enough to have its own thread.

As a breeder, I never sell people more than one puppy at a time and I highly recommend that people space their dogs 18 months apart. I believe that each puppy needs and deserves its own time with its owner without having to compete for time with another puppy.

Housebreaking multiple puppies is a nightmare (done it!) and I find that puppies raised together tend to focus on each other rather than on their owners. Also people who have gotten mixed gender littermates are at high risk of having an unplanned brother/sister mating.

It is very, very, very hard to seriously train multiple dogs at the same time. I know because last year I was training and showing three different Standards in obedience. As an owner, you will get farther in your training if you start one dog at a time.

My friend who runs Poodle Rescue in Colorado also says that it is a bad idea and she highly discourages the practice.

I would seriously question any breeder who is willing to sell multiple puppies to a buyer. All too often it is an easy way for breeders to "unload" puppies but it is not in the best interest of the new home or the puppies.

 

[AgilityIG]

I am totally with you on this. We see this a lot at our clinic - folks think they need to get littermates. I try to explain it this way: If you were going to a foreign country with a friend and neither of you spoke the language, you would only end up talking to your friend and not spending any time trying to communicate with the natives. If you buy/adopt two puppies/dogs at the same time, they are the two folks visiting the different country - they are more likely to bond to each other and not you.

I try to space my own dogs every five years. This being said, I DO have littermates. Frank came as a puppy and Betty came when they were about 2 1/2 years old. She was just supposed to stay for the winter while her sister was at the breeder's house being bred (she and Sophia do NOT get along). Ugh... she ended up staying and ruined my five year dog spacing. Even though I got the two of them so far apart, they are VERY bonded to each other. They can be separated without problem, but they do stick together.

 

[*heather*]

I'm in agreement! good info here

 

[Fluffyspoos]

I think this was mentioned because I said I was getting three standards from the same litter. Rofl.

The breeders I'll be getting my pups from I've known as personal friends for a couple years now, and I'm either fully aware of the responsibility I'll be taking on.. or I have no idea and will be in over my head.

I plan on doing individual training as much as possible, I work very part time so all my off time will be commited to my dogs. Not looking forward to the potty training part.. but I think we'll get through it. ^^

Agility makes a great point, however I'm very commited to getting littermates (they will be desexed accordingly so no accidents happen) so I'll just have to find helpful advice over someone trying to talk me out o fit.



PS. Any advice, good or bad, will be considered and appreciated on my part.

 

[Cdnjennga]

I think this was mentioned because I said I was getting three standards from the same litter. Rofl.

Good luck to you Fluffyspoos! We've never had 3 pups at the same time, but we have had 2 litters (of 3 and 4 pups, at different times) and 3 dogs at one time.

On the pup front, we dedicated 2 months to them pretty much night and day, loved them, socialized them etc. At 8 weeks we could not WAIT to get them out the door as they are getting to be sooo much work at that time. So I can't imagine bringing 3 in the door when we were so anxious to get 3 out the door.

As for having 3 dogs - well, we found it too much work. I've heard it said 2 is a joy and 3 is work, and that was true for us. Everything is more difficult with 3. When you walk them on your own you have to have 2 in one hand and 1 in the other. Plus they very much act like a pack, so we found we had more problems with other dogs in the park. Our personal limit is now 2 (usually spaced at least 3 to 4 years apart.)

Anyway, for what it's worth, that was our experience!

 

[Fluffyspoos]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Cd!

After reading this thread, I emailed a professional dog trainer I know, who is currently attenting the top college in the US on police dog training, a professional breeder, and my breeder about the issues that come up with getting littermates.

I may try to talk my boyfriend out of getting his poodle, he doesn't seem REALLY set on it, he really wants a pembroke welsh corgi eventually, and I think he just wants a poo because he likes the breeders a lot.

I've only got a response from my breeder so far, and I'm going to her place on wednesday to help her groom and bathe her 3 stpoos, and she said we'd talk it over then. She raised 2 females from her last litter at the same time with mommy in the house as well, so I can always go to her for help should I need it I know.

 

[cbrand]

Think about this logically.

What is the up side to getting littermates? Can you list them?
Then, think of all of the downsides....
Housebreaking problems
Not enough training time
Lack of bonding
Lack of focus (other puppies will have to be kept in crates while you train)

You say that you will be desexing your puppies early enough that accidental matings will not be an issue, but that means desexing them early before they have the advantages of all the secondary sex hormones which many people believe contribute to better skeletal development.

You have never had a Poodle before, right? Why not start out with one and work your way into it. Then you would really have the time to devote to training.

Why is there this rush to acquire more than one poodle?

 

[Fluffyspoos]

Correct, I have never owned a poodle before, though this isn't from my decision. If it had been up to me, I would already have a poodle by now. I still live with my parents, and I respect their house rules and the fact that they're basically pet nazi's.

I wouldn't really call it a rush to get more than one poodle, I've been waiting years, and years, and years to get a poodle, and I'm sick of waiting, even though I'll probably have to wait another 9-12 months. The reason for more than one is that I never really saw myself with one poodle, I always imagine two, brother and sister. Not really a good answer, I know.

I plan on keeping them completely seperate for as much as possible, so they'll have more time to bond with me than each other. I wont be away for 8 hours 5 days a week, so if people can care for one puppy while working a job full time, I'm confident I can take care of two being very part time.

I've heard of the bone development issue that's brought up with spaying and neutering before adulthood, and I've either decided to fix the one opposing gender, or doggy diapers.

As far as the other upsides.. I don't really know of any, all the sites I found only stated the negatives. I guess it's a selfish thing. I never plan on having children, I want dogs, not kids, and raising a dog isn't as hard as raising a child.

 

[bigpoodleperson]

Well, you know my take on it as i was the nay-sayer in the other thread. If this is your first dog, then Really, please rethink this! My parents are pet natzis also, and i had to wait a Long time for my dog. He was my first dog, and i thought i was SO prepaired! I read Tons of books, researched for years, helped with friends dogs, etc. Riley was so much more work then i thought he was going to be. He is totally worth it, but i would Never get more then one at a time. At least wait a year until your next one. Dont rush into it. Create a good bond with teh first, establish your relationship, train the dog well, and have it help you raise your next one.
I know people who got two, and they regret it. They love their dogs, but wish they waited.

 

[Mandycasey'smom]

my guys are 3 months apart. Mandy first and easy as pie never had an issue with her.
Casey came next They said he was crate trained I believe that meant he lived his life in a crate. He had no qualms about pooping or peeing in his bed no matter how small.
It took months longer to train him for that reason. At 18 months I still won't trust him not to piddle in the house if left to his own but he doesn't go in his crate anymore.
I took each one individually to training class. I took Mandy in the car for more rides then Casey only because he got silly and wouldn't get in the car so he stayed home if it was a quick run.
Both are so different yet they do look for eachother outside and check in to me and eachother. Was it hard ya but almost 2 years later I would do it again because now they are calming down and chilling more I love them both. My puppy stages are done ( unless I get a third but that won't happen till hell freezes over according to hubby)

 

[cbrand]

I didn't realize that you were still living at home. Another very serious issue to consider is the difficulty you will face trying to find rental housing with more than one dog.

 

[Fluffyspoos]

Oh the housing won't be a problem at all, my boyfriends mom is going to rent her house to us for very cheap, and allow us to do any improvements to it. We just have to finish fencing off the yard and I plan on adding in a doggy door.

The yard is huge, and the doggy door room can be closed off to the rest of the house. She is more worried about the curtains we're getting than the amount of pet's we told we'll be getting, lol.

 

[roxy25]

I agree with most 2 dogs will be hard. Hell I have only one standard poodle who is 10 months old and he is so much work !!!!!

I been training dogs most of my life and to really train a dog you need to train daily every day until you accomplished what you wanted in the dog.

I would work with my GSD daily for 2 years straight, She knew over 200 commands.

I can't even imagining having 2 standard poodles at the same time. I think you should wait for the next put like everyone has stated.

 

[Pamela]

well I guess I have a different opinion here lol - we got two littermates when we got the minis. they never cried when in their crate - they love each other but love us also - they had no problem with housebreaking - and they have been a joy. the only time its a problem is when they both want to get on my daughter's lap at the same time lol they are nine now and still have their own little personalities. Cassie lazy and twice as big as Gabie who is a cute little girl - they eat the same but still the difference - I would agree that two standards at the same time would be a little mucyh - I think.....lol

 

[Harley_chik]

Oh the housing won't be a problem at all, my boyfriends mom is going to rent her house to us for very cheap, and allow us to do any improvements to it. We just have to finish fencing off the yard and I plan on adding in a doggy door.

The yard is huge, and the doggy door room can be closed off to the rest of the house. She is more worried about the curtains we're getting than the amount of pet's we told we'll be getting, lol.

This isn't a very good solution, IMO. Mixing business and family can go downhill very quickly. What happens if you and bf break up, is mommy going to kick you out? What happens if bf and his mom have a fight, will she evict you both? You're renting it "very cheap" and you only work part time, does that mean if something happens, you won't be able to afford another place? What if you future landlord decides she needs more money? The economy is tough and plenty of people are looking to rent. It's hard to find a place that will rent to you with one large dog, finding a place that would allow 3 would be close to impossible. If she's so carefree about damage to this property, what kind of shape is it in? Will she be so carefree when you have a problem, will she fix things when you need it? Make sure you get a lease, with both your names on it and it says you can have pets!

Other things to think about:

Vet bills will probably be more than triple.

Boarding and grooming will be triple. (It's expensive for me to board one Rottweiler.)

You will 3 times as much waste to pick up.

Are you going to have to make 2 or 3 trips everytime you take them somewhere? Most vehicles can't hold 3 large dog crates or even three dogs in safety harnesses.

I too would seriously question any breeder who would do this. Either she's not a very good breeder or she's going against her better judgment b/c you are a friend. Still she is setting you and your future pups up for a hard road and a big chance of failure.

 

[Fluffyspoos]

Don't worry about renting the house, that's not an issue and is a bit off topic.

I emailed a reputable breeder that many on this forum probably know about on adopting out multiple puppies to the same family, this is her response:

"I find it funny it would say it is a" bad idea" to get more then one I place allot of poodles in pairs they keep each other company they play, sleep and become cherished friends through out their lifes, I sent 3 to the same family in Florida and they have had a ball. 2 to Texas with great reports back did not interfere with the puppy training at all, me my self prefer to raise 2 pups at a time."

I am a groomer myself, so grooming won't be an issue at all, and the vet bills isn't any different than anyone owning 3 dogs period. As I stated in my first reply to this thread, I said "I'll just have to find helpful advice over someone trying to talk me out of fit."

 

[bigpoodleperson]

As I stated in my first reply to this thread, I said "I'll just have to find helpful advice over someone trying to talk me out of fit."

I do believe our posts are helpful advice. I wish you luck with whatever you choose. Sounds like you have your mind made up.

P.S. that breeder you talked to does not sound reputable in my book.

 

[BFF]

I'm a free spirit and certainly appreciate you are going to do what you feel is best for you. I can only wonder. What are you going to do if you are wrong?

Will the breeder take one or two of the dogs back and re-home them to someone else? Will you be having to re-home them yourself? It takes a special person to be willing to do the grooming for a poodle, so finding someone to take them may not be as easy as you think. Would you be offering to do the grooming just to make sure they had a good home? Personally, this would absolutely kill me. Seeing my baby go to another home.

On the other hand, if we are wrong, you go and get your new additions a month later. No harm done.

I don't mean to make this even harder. I just know I have made some pretty stupid decisions and now know that my best thinking got me there. I'm a very methodical person who doesn't make rash decisions. I'm often criticized for over-thinking an issue. Still, I just didn't have the experience or knowledge I needed to make a more informed decision at the time. I hope this works out for you whatever you decide to do.

 

[Fluffyspoos]

I appreciate your kind words and care, BFF

I have access to a lot of professional dog trainers, and if worse comes to worse I'll be open to many options. Yes, if I absolutely positively had to rehome one of my poodles I would very kindly offer to groom him or her for a huge discount. It would be like seeing an old best friend.

And it'll be more than a month before I get my dogs, lol, as of now, they're still a future plan for my breeder, and the bitch won't be bred until next spring, so it may be a whole year before I get my dogs. I have plenty of time to work through all the ups and downs.

 

[cbrand]

I emailed a reputable breeder that many on this forum probably know about on adopting out multiple puppies to the same family, this is her response:

"I find it funny it would say it is a" bad idea" to get more then one I place allot of poodles in pairs they keep each other company they play, sleep and become cherished friends through out their lifes, I sent 3 to the same family in Florida and they have had a ball. 2 to Texas with great reports back did not interfere with the puppy training at all, me my self prefer to raise 2 pups at a time."

Saying that this person is a reputable breeder does not make it so. Her actions speak louder than words. Three littermates to the same family? Absurd!

As far as saying that having littermates causes no training issues, well I guess as a breeder I am hoping and expecting a different level of training on the puppies I place.