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Does anyone know anything about Frenchies standard poodle in Utah? It will be a while before I will be seriously looking for another pup, but Frenchies advertise here frequently and I wanted to get everyine's take on them as a possible breeder. Their site is www.frenchiespoodles.com I am interested more in their solid line. They seem a bit expencive for what they have and charge more for color. A friend of mine is currently interested in one of their colorful dogs so any info would be appreciated. Thanks, Sarah
 

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I think their pricing seems OK with what they offer. I didn't see any solids.
 

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Thanks for the link to the other posts. Unfortunately I didn't know enough about hip testing so didn't understand the info on her site as well as I though I did.

Is her pricing average? She quoted 2 pups (one sable and one parti male) for $1200 with limited registration. She said when she gets solids they are $900+. I guess I was just suprised that non show spoos from non show spoos would be quite that much. Yes they are beautiful and she seems like a very informed breeder. Judy wants a healthy spoo however what makes the Frenchies line worth $1200 when another breeder has spoos, who's parents have had their eyes and hips certified, and is only asking $500 a pup. Is it the parti gene? I am seriouly asking, not being a snot. When a line has not many chanps (because they are parti poos i assume) what makes them cost more than other pups with show parents who have had the same health test, or more, than the non show pups? Perhaps this is to complicated a question but I am at a loss and want to learn everyhing I can.
 

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Thanks for the link to the other posts. Unfortunately I didn't know enough about hip testing so didn't understand the info on her site as well as I though I did.

Is her pricing average? She quoted 2 pups (one sable and one parti male) for $1200 with limited registration. She said when she gets solids they are $900+. I guess I was just suprised that non show spoos from non show spoos would be quite that much. Yes they are beautiful and she seems like a very informed breeder. Judy wants a healthy spoo however what makes the Frenchies line worth $1200 when another breeder has spoos, who's parents have had their eyes and hips certified, and is only asking $500 a pup. Is it the parti gene? I am seriouly asking, not being a snot. When a line has not many chanps (because they are parti poos i assume) what makes them cost more than other pups with show parents who have had the same health test, or more, than the non show pups? Perhaps this is to complicated a question but I am at a loss and want to learn everyhing I can.
I would think it is because it is trendy right now and eventhough it is not rare, it is fairly "new" to the public or "the in thing". I don't think the quality or even color is any better than another, but $500 would be on the low end of a health tested champion line poodle I would think. Don't take my word for it though-everything is more expensive in Hawaii. They sell chihuahua terrier mixes for 600 in the pet stores.:wacko:
 

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There is a lot of really iffy stuff there on her site.. She does alot of prelims and never follows through. Way back she had opinions on her dogs. I think she is learning and doing better but still...I would question as the pedigrees and if she has produced Addisons or epilipsy and hppefully she will be honest with you . She does have lovely dogs though..
 

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I almost went with Leslie as my breeder. She is really nice and so willing to answer questions. I'd e-mail her a question and she'd get back to me that day or the next morning. Then I came to this site and learned a lot more about what to look for in a breeder. Then the thread that PP posted helped me decide to go with a different breeder. I figured that one of the main reasons I was going with a breeder was to make sure I could get as healthy of a dog as I could. I know there is no guarantee that I'd get a 100% healthy dog, but I feel that going with a breeder who does as much health testing as they can helps in that area a lot. When I figured out that she wasn't following up on her testing and breeding dogs way too young, I knew I needed to find someone else. I was sad because I really do like Leslie a lot.

About the solids, I was interested in a solid as well. She can't guarantee a solid since she breeds for partis but sometimes they pop up in her litters. She has tried to do a breeding that would produce more solid puppies but so far it has not been successful.

I know each person has their different criteria when choosing a breeder. Mine was health testing being high up on the list. Other people have different opinions, but I thought I'd share mine. HTH.
 

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Judy wants a healthy spoo however what makes the Frenchies line worth $1200 when another breeder has spoos, who's parents have had their eyes and hips certified, and is only asking $500 a pup. Is it the parti gene?

Why would having a parti gene make a difference if they are on a limited registration, meaning I should hope, to not breed the pup being sold.

....Perhaps this is to complicated a question but I am at a loss and want to learn everyhing I can.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there is a lot to learn so it's good you start now and not be in any hurry for a puppy.

You stated that they advertise in your area often. What do you mean? A newspaper ad?

I located a video clip (I knew I had seen their dogs somewhere) It has one of their parti's in the group. It didn't place... my girl, Grace, is the white standard who took best of group and then unto best of show.
(I'm not ashamed of bragging! <g> She comes from health tested parents, up the gazoo too!)


http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=59683867
 

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Frenchies Poodles

Well I'm surprised to see some of the nice things said about me THANKS, and then again shocked on some of the negative things that are in correct, I would like to say my peace then go about my business as I don't spend much time in chat rooms, I love being a breeder and believe in breeding the healthiest puppies I can. Yes my lines have kitsues in them but did not come from their( I had one and returned him for personal reasons) and Lola is the only one from Cherdons and she is AMAZING! At the time I started their wasn't much choice, I health test all my Poo's (CERF,VWD,OFA) If you read on the OFA site they explain the reasoning for prelims and the percentage they change compared to the 24 month old Poodles which is very low, as for Lola that had a Vet Hip Evaluation, both here parents are OFA and yes she needs done if I see fit, you are all missing the point you need to look at the whole dog all its good traits and bad traits. If I have a dog that excels in good traits with a fair rating it would be a in justus to remove that dog from a breeding program as fair is acceptable with OFA, I feel you should breed to improve the whole dog, not just hips alone, altho they are FIRST on my list!!! As of now I only have one dog with a fair rating, the rest are prelim good or penn-hip good, I have worked very hard to improve the breed with each breeding,I never breed a female until they have had 2 heat cycles which is close to 2yrs, and their was a comment about me trading or selling my older dogs, I do like to put diversity in my lines and a breeder has to make a tuff call sometimes, if you are a breeder you know what I mean! but I got to say I'm still learning everyday, I love each and everyone of my loving, loyal poodles they are my friends!, Thanks for reading Leslie
 

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Well I'm surprised to see some of the nice things said about me THANKS, and then again shocked on some of the negative things that are in correct, I would like to say my peace then go about my business as I don't spend much time in chat rooms, I love being a breeder and believe in breeding the healthiest puppies I can. Yes my lines have kitsues in them but did not come from their( I had one and returned him for personal reasons) and Lola is the only one from Cherdons and she is AMAZING! At the time I started their wasn't much choice, I health test all my Poo's (CERF,VWD,OFA) If you read on the OFA site they explain the reasoning for prelims and the percentage they change compared to the 24 month old Poodles which is very low, as for Lola that had a Vet Hip Evaluation, both here parents are OFA and yes she needs done if I see fit, you are all missing the point you need to look at the whole dog all its good traits and bad traits. If I have a dog that excels in good traits with a fair rating it would be a in justus to remove that dog from a breeding program as fair is acceptable with OFA, I feel you should breed to improve the whole dog, not just hips alone, altho they are FIRST on my list!!! As of now I only have one dog with a fair rating, the rest are prelim good or penn-hip good, I have worked very hard to improve the breed with each breeding,I never breed a female until they have had 2 heat cycles which is close to 2yrs, and their was a comment about me trading or selling my older dogs, I do like to put diversity in my lines and a breeder has to make a tuff call sometimes, if you are a breeder you know what I mean! but I got to say I'm still learning everyday, I love each and everyone of my loving, loyal poodles they are my friends!, Thanks for reading Leslie
Hi Leslie,

I won't judge you since...heck yes we have all done things that others consider not "correct". I think the saying is "those that live in glass houses" comes to mind,especially having read it a few times on this message board.

Great that you are on here to clairify or speak up about yourself.

Most breeders get totally trashed for doing anything "outside" the norm... but like you have discovered... Unless some breeders (with goals) do breed and do things outside the norm, greatness can be missed.

Some people ...pet owners and new breeders have probably never heard of females coming into heat at 4 months of age. I have had females come into heat every 4 months. I have had "split heats"... with experience comes knowledge.

I breed second heat if after 12 months of age. That is "MY" belief of the way I will do things. As a result my females are exceptionally healthy and great moms and no associated fertility problems or health issues that breeders have had that wait for 24 months of age (breeding by the book) and let their females get stressed by many heats. My choice.

Fairs...OMG the fair question again...
Fairs are a pass....
Let me repeat this because seems it is confusing...
OFA FAIRS ARE A PASS.

Yes ideally "EXCELLENT" hip ratings would be all we would breed.
But some of the TOP show standard Poodles of all time have a wack of fairs behind them and those fairs have gone on to produce "goods" and excellents" so good thing they were not eliminated from the gene pool.

Breeders have to be "aware" of the results and plan around that. Yes we should NEVER EVER "through the baby out with the bathwater" breeders should weigh your future and make "plans". aka breeding with a purpose.

I have also read and believe what the experts at OFA say about prelim (REAL Prelim certificates issued by OFA) have determined in that the results of a 3-6 month evaluation maintain the rating as adults...
http://www.offa.org/hipprelim.html
Information located here: http://www.offa.org/prelimpolicy.html

I also have no issues with breeding before 24 months if prelims have been done or even if both parents have passed OFA (after all, that is why we screen with OFA to ensure progeny will pass) ... again, depending on the health of the female of course.

It is great to have a "book" laid out on what is the "normal" is for breeding guidelines when we start out breeding so at least we have a clue... but "thinking out of the box" (to obtain a goal or breed with a purpose) often provides MANY unique GREAT opportunities that would otherwise be missed should we as breeders "succome" to peer pressure or forum consenses.

Leslie... take what is said here with a grain of salt.
You may get some great suggestions (instead of judgments).
You may make some great people to network with.

There are some "VERY" judgemental people on here (not meaning any one person in particular at all... before anyone takes offence)

That have NEVER bred a litter of anything "themselves" with the full responsibility. OR that have never bred a litter of standard Poodles themselves with the full responsibility.

There are "breeders" on here that will judge "you"
Who don't have any health testing done on the dogs they are breeding (despite the testiment that prelims are done) or that will say it is OK for "THEM" to do only because "THEIR" breeding just had too many great qualities to let health testing stand in their way or that "they" knew what they were doing... aka excuses instead of just admitting it is their way of doing things....

There are breeders on here that will judge you that have also bred their dogs before they were 24 months of age and yes before any health testing was done either... so yeah... consider the source.

For any person looking for a good breeder ... there is a process that you may wish to look into.
AKC and many clubs offer guidelines to look for in a breeder.
This forum can give you many without ...WITHOUT... saying this person or that person is a good breeder... or a bad breeder.

but when people come on here naming a breeders name and asking for references or what not...
1. from past experience we have to wonder if it the breeder themselves brokering pups
2. If it is that breeders competition coming on here to trash talk.
3. If none of the above...then also keep in mind that Breeders are on here that are... or will be in the future.... or have friends that are selling pups.

It is like asking FORD for a reference on GM.

Instead I would like to focas on generic (rather than name calling which is so negative) facts in what to look for in a breeder and there are many great sources of information for a Puppy Buyer to source out and refer to.

Here are some that were brough up on this site before and of course we can also agree and disagree on these too... without offending anyone or engaging in any trash talking about 'anyone'.

http://www.akc.org/press_center/facts_stats.cfm?page=responsible_breeder


But basic things to consider like:

Is all health testing completed?
How and where are the pups raised ?
Are their dogs bred to improve the breed and as such have titles ?
What was the goal in breeding the parents (ie what qualities are they breeding for or what purpose)?
Do they have experience with the breed and breeding (ie over 5 years)
ARe both parents registered (AKC, CKC, UKC) make sure to view this
Can you meet the parents
Do the breeders have web pages (established)
Does the breeder have the Pedigree and or know the COI of the breeding ?
Does the breeder only sell pets with "limited" registration
What is the guarantee and are YOU ok with that ?
Does the breeder have photos of pups as adults to show you that tehy are evaluating their program and monitoring their program ?
Does the breeder have References for you to read
Does the breeder have full time employment outside the home to afford their hobby ?
Does the breeder get back to you and answer questions within a timely manner ? as should there be problems you want to know that they are there for you.
 

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I don't think anyone was meaning to be rude but rather offering up factual information.

This forum is made of of dog owners who share a passion for Poodles. Yes there are a few breeders here and that's wonderful but not everyone is hiding some agenda and are out to "get" people.

As I have stated before I think Leslie is on the right track and has bred some beautiful puppies but in my own opinion I would not by from her. Its nothing against her, I just do not care for the lines she breeds from. Its a personal preference and I admit I like to make a weekly visit to her sight to look at her adorable puppies as they are adorable!

Just another opinion here but just because the dog has a passing hip score does not mean it should be bred. Hips are one among many things that need screening and clearing.
 

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You know "Tinypoodles" I'm not a breeder but breeding a dog at 10 months, sorry that's just crappy. There is absolutely NO reason that would justify breeding a dog that young ESPECIALLY in a large breed dog. Is there a necessity that is so extremely important that you breed a dog before it's even finished GROWING??? I don't see the point unless you've got money waiting on the table for you and you need some puppies to fill orders. Then there are other judgments awaiting you and I don't care what kind of freaking house you live in, you deserve anything that people throw at you. I'm entitled to my opinion and I personally would never condone such a thing and wouldn't want to associate myself with anyone that would even TRY to justify it.
 

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It is not "best practices" to breed a Standard Poodle before age 2. Besides waiting for an official OFA hip certification or a Pennhip score that is less likely to change, it is important to wait and see the overall health of a line. This means taking a look at the health of the breeding parents, siblings, grandparents and even great grandparents.

As I have said before, there are so many Standard Poodle disorders that we can NOT test for including:

Addisons
Epilepsy
JRD
SA
CAH
Bloat
Auto-immune disorders such as IMT or IMHA.

Poodle fanciers across the country have been appealing to Standard Poodle breeders to take a WAIT AND SEE approach. If Poodle breeders would cool their heels a bit and wait to breed until a Standard Poodle was at least over age 3 yrs then we would have a better chance of eliminating health disorders that we can not test for outright.

Of course it would also mean that Poodle breeders would need to personally know the dogs in their pedigree and be able to contact the owners/breeders. It also means that breeders need to "man up" and cull dogs from their breeding program when problems appear in a line.
 
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